Question Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Salvarani]

This is actually what upsets me the most. Had he at least had a pain face I would have forgiven him so much easier. Had he at least showed that it took effort. But him hiding it behind a poker face makes me not enjoy it at all. I mean when Van Aert went all out last week at least his mouth was all wide open, you could tell he was fighting. With Pog nothing shows.

He looked and was clearly spent in the last 20km, but managed. I dont know what you saw or refused to see.

 

[bNator]

Today it occurred to me that if Pogi really was doping - would he really do it during this part of the season when the reward is certainly not worth the risk, at least not as much as in TDF?

I mean all the dopers of the past doped during peak season and were rather inactive during other parts of the season… perhaps that was the reason why in the proven doping era, GC riders usually only peaked for those 3 weeks per year.

Of course this argument only applies to “conventional” doping…

 

[Ripper]

He looked and was clearly spent in the last 20km, but managed. I dont know what you saw or refused to see.

I don't think he was too clearly spent. But I'm not too worried what his facial expression was.

 

[Ripper]

People are upset about Pogi today when the second best rider is the roided up skeleton of Valverde lol?

One does not preclude the other

 

[Salvarani]

I don't think he was too clearly spent. But I'm not too worried what his facial expression was.

I agree... I just thought the post I responded to was a bit exaggerated.

 

[Ripper]

I agree... I just thought the post I responded to was a bit exaggerated.

I think some people are just very reactive to what rider's facial expressions are like when they're racing, when in reality it's a pretty soft data point, if anything.

 

[zlev11]

Today it occurred to me that if Pogi really was doping - would he really do it during this part of the season when the reward is certainly not worth the risk, at least not as much as in TDF?

I mean all the dopers of the past doped during peak season and were rather inactive during other parts of the season… perhaps that was the reason why in the proven doping era, GC riders usually only peaked for those 3 weeks per year.

Of course this argument only applies to “conventional” doping…

Yes. He is clearly targetting the spring + TDF this year. That said, I think he is a super talent that isn't doing anything special, or more than anyone else on the podium today.

 

[Ripper]

Today it occurred to me that if Pogi really was doping - would he really do it during this part of the season when the reward is certainly not worth the risk, at least not as much as in TDF?

I mean all the dopers of the past doped during peak season and were rather inactive during other parts of the season… perhaps that was the reason why in the proven doping era, GC riders usually only peaked for those 3 weeks per year.

Of course this argument only applies to “conventional” doping…

Not all of them were.

Also, remember that the more modern era of specialization is not only focused on doping factors, but also about targeting very specific races, types of races, and/or time periods.

 

[Parker]

People are upset about Pogi today when the second best rider is the roided up skeleton of Valverde lol?

This is The Clinic. Posters here are upset that races have winners.

 

[Ripper]

This is The Clinic. Posters here are upset that races have winners.

This poster is Parker, he likes to troll.

As for races, I know I and pretty much everybody else on the forum likes it when there are winners, otherwise it's not really a race.

 

[Parker]

This poster is Parker, he likes to troll.

As for races, I know I and pretty much everybody else on the forum likes it when there are winners, otherwise it's not really a race.

And you watch the races so you can see who to accuse of doping. So you can show everyone how you are not fooled and know what's really going on. Smarter than everyone else, aren't you. It's been a decade now since the last major doping scandal. When are you going to entertain the idea that you're wrong?

 

[Akuryo]

And you watch the races so you can see who to accuse of doping. So you can show everyone how you are not fooled and know what's really going on. Smarter than everyone else, aren't you. It's been a decade now since the last major doping scandal. When are you going to entertain the idea that you're wrong?

With that flawed logic you might also believe there is no doping in soccer/football. There have been no scandals in decades after all...

 

[Parker]

With that flawed logic you might also believe there is no doping in soccer/football. There have been no scandals in decades after all...

That's a bizarre comparison. They are not the same sport. Doping regimes are not the same. I will agree with you that FIFA are lagging.

 

[Ripper]

With that flawed logic you might also believe there is no doping in soccer/football. There have been no scandals in decades after all...

Pay no attention to him/her

 

[yaco]

Did Pogacar win by three minutes or 37 seconds ? And Pogacar rode through to the line.

 

[sir fly]

Today it occurred to me that if Pogi really was doping - would he really do it during this part of the season when the reward is certainly not worth the risk, at least not as much as in TDF?

I mean all the dopers of the past doped during peak season and were rather inactive during other parts of the season… perhaps that was the reason why in the proven doping era, GC riders usually only peaked for those 3 weeks per year.

Of course this argument only applies to “conventional” doping…

Matter of the passport.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

He looked and was clearly spent in the last 20km, but managed. I dont know what you saw or refused to see.

So spent that he found the time and energy to high-five people on the final climb.

 

[Salvarani]

So spent that he found the time and energy to high-five people on the final climb.

Just sounds like a bitter comment from you.

It was his fan club standing right on the foot of the final hill to the finish. I think he could afford one high-five at that point, whether he was really tired or not. Saying that he wasnt spent after the effort he had put in is just ludicrous, even if he won convincingly against this field with a very well-timed and strong attack that was quite unexpected for anyone else.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And Asgreen finished 3rd. A good, but not great rider in the junior and u23 ranks who turned into a worldbeater once Lefevre's witchdoctors got a hold of him.

That's strange and quite contradictory logic. A "merely" good junior rider finishing 3rd because of shady stuff is somehow proof that the rider winning is not on the shady stuff, while that same guy was also far from remarkable as a junior.

Or if that wasn't the point you were making then your point eludes me.

 

[Mayomaniac]

That's strange and quite contradictory logic. A "merely" good junior rider finishing 3rd because of shady stuff is somehow proof that the rider winning is not on the shady stuff, while that same guy was also far from remarkable as a junior.

Or if that wasn't the point you were making then your point eludes me.

With all the respect, if winning the Giro della Lunigiana, 3rd in the EC RR and a 6th place on the gc in the Tour de Pays de Vaund is nothing remarkable than nobody but Rembo has been a impressive Junior rider in the last 15-20 years...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

With all the respect, if winning the Giro della Lunigiana, 3rd in the EC RR and a 6th place on the gc in the Tour de Pays de Vaund is nothing remarkable than nobody but Rembo has been a impressive Junior rider in the last 15-20 years...

If winning Lunigiana is enough to ridicule a "good" rider while insinuating that ''good'' rider is doped but the one winning ridiculing him isn't, and you don't see what's wrong with that, then i can't help you. There are dozens of riders in the current peloton who had similar (or better) junior palmares than Pogacar.

 

[roundabout]

Pogacar had a disadvantage of being born in september, so he turned 18 at the end of his final junior year vs people born at the start of the year who turned at 18 at the start of their final junior season.

 

[Mayomaniac]

If winning Lunigiana is enough to ridicule a "good" rider while insinuating that ''good'' rider is doped but the one winning ridiculing him isn't, and you don't see what's wrong with that, then i can't help you. There are dozens of riders in the current peloton who had similar (or better) junior palmares than Pogacar.

First of all, when it came to Asgreen I talked about junior and u23 results, because junior results seem to be a lot less of and indicator if someone will make it big a pro. You then conviniently only mentioned Pogacar's junior results, who are still good.
Second, I've never denied that some of his performances over the last few years are too good to be true.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

First of all, when it came to Asgreen I talked about junior and u23 results, because junior results seem to be a lot less of and indicator if someone will make it big a pro. You then conviniently only mentioned Pogacar's junior results, who are still good.
Second, I've never denied that some of his performances over the last few years are too good to be true.

The point was, that you used the performance and history of Asgreen to paint him as a doper. You then used that premise as an alibi to explain Pogacar's exposition in the context of being clean while in fact logic would point to the exact opposite given your premise. I'm not going to debate that Pogacar had a better palmares than Asgreen coming into the pro ranks, that wasn't the point. But when Asgreen improves from his youth achievements you immediately point the finger, but not so when Pogacar has clearly improved (and likely even more). In fact, you seem to think it's normal that Pogacar ridicules Asgreen, while you insinuate the latter is doped.

 

[Netserk]

Both are doped, obviously. It's about putting their artificial gains in perspective.