Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Nick2413]

Jumbo Visma have succeeded in making me a Pogacar fan in this TdF. That's quite a achievement right there. If someone had told me this a month ago I would have laughed. I will cheer for the Pog from now on, in full awareness of who his backers are & what he is. A bit like Ullrich 20 years ago.

It's the cynicism of creating Vingegaard in a lab to take down another lab project (Pog) which I find completely gross, so if I have to choose sides, I go with the original mutant. As I'm not a shareholder of any of the sponsors & I don't treat sport too seriously (it's just 'sport'), the sort of military approach Jumbo has in this TdF with a almost clinical (pun intended) smash Pogacar at all costs approach = me jumping off their train.

I can't support that. Vingegaard is even tangibly a worse rider than Pogacar (yes, I'm talking basic bike handling, spatial awareness & even something as subjective as his style on the bike which is a bit of Froome combined with Chicken). He's Rasmussen, the return. This time with upgraded watts & rouleur abilities.

I bet his doctors are very proud. I also think he's literally stronger than Pog right now, i.e. he was so easy on the Alpe D'Huez & just 'floated around' behind Pog's attacks. Surreal.

Whatever Wout is on is equally potent. That whole team is radioactive right now.

 

[Ripper]

Pogo seems impervious to burning matches left, right, and central. So far at least. Either he'll succeed after trying and trying, or his lack of biding his time (and managing his energy) will result in another not so good moment.

There are other tactics than bludgeoning your opponents with pure power. Somewhat reminiscent of Flanders.

 

[Blobs]

Jumbo Visma have succeeded in making me a Pogacar fan in this TdF. That's quite a achievement right there. If someone had told me this a month ago I would have laughed. I will cheer for the Pog from now on, in full awareness of who his backers are & what he is. A bit like Ullrich 20 years ago.

It's the cynicism of creating Vingegaard in a lab to take down another lab project (Pog) which I find completely gross, so if I have to choose sides, I go with the original mutant. As I'm not a shareholder of any of the sponsors & I don't treat sport too seriously (it's just 'sport'), the sort of military approach Jumbo has in this TdF with a almost clinical (pun intended) smash Pogacar at all costs approach = me jumping off their train.

I can't support that. Vingegaard is even tangibly a worse rider than Pogacar (yes, I'm talking basic bike handling, spatial awareness & even something as subjective as his style on the bike which is a bit of Froome combined with Chicken). He's Rasmussen, the return. This time with upgraded watts & rouleur abilities.

I bet his doctors are very proud. I also think he's literally stronger than Pog right now, i.e. he was so easy on the Alpe D'Huez & just 'floated around' behind Pog's attacks. Surreal.

So do you think if someone dopes up to mutant levels, then the others should just let him win? Not even try to beat him, using the same methods? Why does doing the same stuff as the chief mutant, make the others the bad guys?

 

[Cagalitroso]

So do you think if someone dopes up to mutant levels, then the others should just let him win? Not even try to beat him, using the same methods? Why does doing the same stuff as the chief mutant, make the others the bad guys?

exactly...fire has been fought with fire.. the cat is well out of the bag now... this will continue with more unexpected winners until the whole balloon is popped...btw, where is bahrain these days?

 

[Rackham]

So do you think if someone dopes up to mutant levels, then the others should just let him win? Not even try to beat him, using the same methods? Why does doing the same stuff as the chief mutant, make the others the bad guys?

Jumbo is a team effort, aka the new Sky, who were the new Postal.

I never liked Pogacar (I've always been vocal about that) but I don't think people quite realize what's happening. You now have the new Froome. That includes their way of racing as well (team train + unbeatable watts killing everyone on the first summit finish & then defensively matching anything thrown at their leader). Jumbo were evidently dissatisfied with Roglic so they built themselves the ultimate cyborg who'd fulfil the tactical dream they had in 2020. Mende was a terrible spectacle today, i.e. absolute sh*t.

If I'm going to watch a doped spectacle, it might as well be a fun spectacle with riders who have ups, downs & everything in between based on whether they're having a good day or not or whether their teammates have exploded. This TdF right now? Boring. It's like a Jumbo military operation. Get ready for more of the same in the Pyrenees & going forwards in the near future, from the moment nothing changes in the sport.

Pogacar (as bad as he is) just doesn't have the sort of dominant team which can kill a race like Vingegaard has. Vingegaard's rise over the past 18 months is also comical, i.e. people can 'choose' to believe it's legit to have a no name nobody in 2020 suddenly matching Tadej Pogacar on short climbs & trouncing him last week on a high altitude long climb.

 

[Extinction]

Jumbo is a team effort, aka the new Sky, who were the new Postal.

I never liked Pogacar (I've always been vocal about that) but I don't think people quite realize what's happening. You now have the new Froome. That includes their way of racing as well (team train + unbeatable watts killing everyone on the first summit finish & then defensively matching anything thrown at their leader). Jumbo were evidently dissatisfied with Roglic so they built themselves the ultimate cyborg who'd fulfil the tactical dream they had in 2020. Mende was a terrible spectacle today, i.e. absolute sh*t.

If I'm going to watch a doped spectacle, it might as well be a fun spectacle with riders who have ups, downs & everything in between based on whether they're having a good day or not or whether their teammates have exploded. This TdF right now? Boring. It's like a Jumbo military operation. Get ready for more of the same in the Pyrenees & going forwards in the near future, from the moment nothing changes in the sport.

Pogacar (as bad as he is) just doesn't have the sort of dominant team which can kill a race like Vingegaard has. Vingegaard's rise over the past 18 months is also comical, i.e. people can 'choose' to believe it's legit to have a no name nobody in 2020 suddenly matching Tadej Pogacar on short climbs & trouncing him last week on a high altitude long climb.

Well, honestly, that entirely depends on whether or not you are a Jumbo fan (or were a Sky or Postal one and, by the way, I wasn't). Everything else, as they say, is the Evolution of the sport, as it has continued to 'evolve' in the arms race in the era of big budgets. As Fignon wrote, we were the last hippies of the sport. Even then Conconi and his protige Ferrari (and thus Fuentes, Schmidt, etc) were forging the new path.

 

[Ripper]

Jumbo is a team effort, aka the new Sky, who were the new Postal.

I never liked Pogacar (I've always been vocal about that) but I don't think people quite realize what's happening. You now have the new Froome. That includes their way of racing as well (team train + unbeatable watts killing everyone on the first summit finish & then defensively matching anything thrown at their leader). Jumbo were evidently dissatisfied with Roglic so they built themselves the ultimate cyborg who'd fulfil the tactical dream they had in 2020. Mende was a terrible spectacle today, i.e. absolute sh*t.

If I'm going to watch a doped spectacle, it might as well be a fun spectacle with riders who have ups, downs & everything in between based on whether they're having a good day or not or whether their teammates have exploded. This TdF right now? Boring. It's like a Jumbo military operation. Get ready for more of the same in the Pyrenees & going forwards in the near future, from the moment nothing changes in the sport.

Pogacar (as bad as he is) just doesn't have the sort of dominant team which can kill a race like Vingegaard has. Vingegaard's rise over the past 18 months is also comical, i.e. people can 'choose' to believe it's legit to have a no name nobody in 2020 suddenly matching Tadej Pogacar on short climbs & trouncing him last week on a high altitude long climb.

It is of course completely okay to not like Jumbo or vingo! But honestly, if vingo were not in this race right now, and Pogo had not had a lapse due to youthful exuberance/ego, then Pogo would likely be up on the whole field by 3 minutes and instead of a stranglehold by a team you would have a stranglehold by one rider. In other words, last year's race.

As for rogocop, we have no idea what conversations have happened in the team or how hurting he has been (although obviously out now to heal up).

 

[BR2]

So do you think if someone dopes up to mutant levels, then the others should just let him win? Not even try to beat him, using the same methods? Why does doing the same stuff as the chief mutant, make the others the bad guys?

Why do you fight for Jumbo/Vinge?
Personally I don't think it's a solution to dope up to the same level. If you know the methods speaking out would be the right thing to do.

 

[noob]

Why do you fight for Jumbo/Vinge?
Personally I don't think it's a solution to dope up to the same level. If you know the methods speaking out would be the right thing to do.

This is exactly why I love watching the sport from afar. I don't expect I would like being around any of the riders in real life. Because when people are obsessed with winning they tend to do bad things.

 

[Blobs]

Why do you fight for Jumbo/Vinge?
Personally I don't think it's a solution to dope up to the same level. If you know the methods speaking out would be the right thing to do.

I don't fight for them. I fight the hypocrisy of people making them the bad guys. They are all doing it, that's why no one speaks out.

 

[ppanther92]

I don't fight for them. I fight the hypocrisy of people making them the bad guys. They are all doing it, that's why no one speaks out.

Yes but on the other hand we know for now that all doing it doesn’t necessarily mean level playing field. Jumbo is obviously doing it very good. As was Bahrain post-Covid and what a difference that makes became quite apparent now.

 

[Luthor]

We're back to the nuclear UAE. It was nice while it lasted for them to perform in normal parameters.

 

[Mayomaniac]

We're back to the nuclear UAE. It was nice while it lasted for them to perform in normal parameters.

McNulty suddenly pulls a 2020 Rohan Dennis...

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Bjerg just killing himself For his leader. Mcnulty has always been a great talenr.

but jumbo with their performances….yeah that is normal

 

[Luthor]

Bjerg just killing himself For his leader. Mcnulty has always been a great talenr.

but jumbo with their performances….yeah that is normal

Got you triggered Pogacar fan? Trying to go with whataboutism about Jumbo? Is this the only defence you have? When did Jumbo dropped everyone with a domestique? How stupid can you be to look at these performances and still be a fan to the point of defending it?

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Would the looming energy crisis be solved by putting Pogacar and Vingegaard on a treadmill and hooking it up to the grid? They do say nuclear power is the future, after all...

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Got you triggered Pogacar fan? Trying to go with whataboutism about Jumbo? Is this the only defence you have? When did Jumbo dropped everyone with a domestique? How stupid can you be to look at these performances and still be a fan to the point of defending it?

My explanation is before that, cant you read?

They probably are just motivated to have revenge for all their bad luck. Bjerg has been a great talent at the juniors, not a climber, but to pull something like today is not impossible.

A,d mcnulty has always been a climbing talent, just still very young.

nothing weird, just the guys giving it all For their team leader

 

[TourOfSardinia]

"miraculous" UAE teammates today
Carlton Kirby GCN

 

[Mayomaniac]

Bjerg just killing himself For his leader. Mcnulty has always been a great talenr.

but jumbo with their performances….yeah that is normal

Nobody denies than McNulty has always been a great talent.
That said, going from getting dropped by his breakaway companions yesterday to this raises some questions, it's a lot like Rohan Dennis on the Stelvio.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Nobody denies than McNulty has always been a great talent.
That said, going from getting dropped by his breakaway companions yesterday to this raises some questions, it's a lot like Rohan Dennis on the Stelvio.

He likely did not go all out yesterday, his job was to sit with Wout and help Tadej in the descent.

 

[Riek s]

Got you triggered Pogacar fan? Trying to go with whataboutism about Jumbo? Is this the only defence you have? When did Jumbo dropped everyone with a domestique? How stupid can you be to look at these performances and still be a fan to the point of defending it?

Kuss did it 2 times this tour ?


Also records are being smashed by them... (and it seems Vingegaard is not a block at all, if his weakest point, explosive, is enough to keep up with Pog. Pog has met his mutant brother it seems. Only upside for Pog is that he looks healtier

 

[PhiLiz]

Already reading the same excuses as Dennis at Stelvio as if this would be just the result of "planning"... If McNulty has this legs I'm sure it'd had come in handy on the Granon...

 

[ppanther92]

Already reading the same excuses as Dennis at Stelvio as if this would be just the result of "planning"... If McNulty has this legs I'm sure it'd had come in handy on the Granon...

But then again I am wondering what can give you that sort of improvement in just one day?

And if it exists, why not Pogi but just McNulty? Or is it easier to take risk with non-leaders?

 

[fbjim]

not checking the numbers but pretty sure the Val Louron is a bit easier than the Stelvio

 

[HelloDolly]

Maybe UAE got desperate last night after being down to 3 doms