Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[meat puppet]

Lee Sweeney, physiologist at the University of Pennsylvania's Perelman School of Medicine, who's also director of the University of Florida's Myology Institute.

Thanks. There was one Weber mentioned in the post. As the context is cycling, I immediately though of Sebastian.

With regards to the Pog versus Vinge (quasi moral) debate regarding which one we support, i.e. considering we heavily suspect both are more than a little delving into the dark arts of performance enhancement, a parallel could be drawn back to the 1990's when Pantani was popular... & certain cyborgs weren't.

Vingegaard is a cyborg. He's the clinical product of Jumbo Visma's need to micromanage the Tour de France to a maniacal degree. He's basically the 'human' embodiment of their team car in the peloton. They say jump, Vinge says how high. Rog was decommissioned as their leader in the Tour because he's precisely too unpredictable (blows hot & cold) & has moments of no risk, no glory which give the DS's jitters. Some people don't notice this (or haven't been following Jumbo Visma closely enough) & fall for the 'marketing' which paints Vingegaard as a model father & an introvert. But honestly, there's nothing anywhere near as deep going on there, i.e. it's just Vingegaard following numbers on his bike computer & doing exactly what Grischa tells him to do. Froome-esque.

Pog on the other hand... has some Pantani in him. And he looks better & more natural on a bike as well. The aesthetics are definitely in Pog's favor & yes, it matters. I mean what's with Vinge also constantly staring at Pog to the extent he'll give himself whiplash? Even French Eurosport (Jacky Durand) noticed this & thought it was weird.

People are free to pick & choose who they support (obviously) but tant qu’à faire (aka whilst we're at it) I'd rather support the rider who comes across as an actual thoroughbred instead of a machine.

Just my opinion.

Yeah, I too prefer Mr. Giannetti's wild entrepreneurial spirit and doer attitude towards blood doping to anything that gives a more calculated impression.

E: Note to self: never do sarcasm online.

 

[Extinction]

With regards to the Pog versus Vinge (quasi moral) debate regarding which one we support, i.e. considering we heavily suspect both are more than a little delving into the dark arts of performance enhancement, a parallel could be drawn back to the 1990's when Pantani was popular... & certain cyborgs weren't.

Vingegaard is a cyborg. He's the clinical product of Jumbo Visma's need to micromanage the Tour de France to a maniacal degree. He's basically the 'human' embodiment of their team car in the peloton. They say jump, Vinge says how high. Rog was decommissioned as their leader in the Tour because he's precisely too unpredictable (blows hot & cold) & has moments of no risk, no glory which give the DS's jitters. Some people don't notice this (or haven't been following Jumbo Visma closely enough) & fall for the 'marketing' which paints Vingegaard as a model father & an introvert. But honestly, there's nothing anywhere near as deep going on there, i.e. it's just Vingegaard following numbers on his bike computer & doing exactly what Grischa tells him to do. Froome-esque.

Pog on the other hand... has some Pantani in him. And he looks better & more natural on a bike as well. The aesthetics are definitely in Pog's favor & yes, it matters. I mean what's with Vinge also constantly staring at Pog to the extent he'll give himself whiplash? Even French Eurosport (Jacky Durand) noticed this & thought it was weird.

People are free to pick & choose who they support (obviously) but tant qu’à faire (aka whilst we're at it) I'd rather support the rider who comes across as an actual thoroughbred instead of a machine.

Just my opinion.

Ah, but Pog is no Pantani, who was laiden with a melancholic and hence tragic nature. With Pantani you got pathos. I don't get that from Pogacar, just brazenness. And Pantani had a Picassoesque aesthetic on the bike. An air of cubismo. It's not for everybody, but, like Guernica, was sensational to behold. To me, Pog looks comical while riding, in the sense that he literally looks funny whilst peddling. All that strange bobbing left to right. It's like he's dancing at a frat party! I agree, however, with what you say about Vingeggard and his avuncular demeanor. It's mumbo-jumbo propaganda, although I do get the sense he is meak. By contrast, with Pog's projected good grandson profile, I perceive something diabolical behind the facade.

But, as you say, just my opinion.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's seems UAE aren't trailing behind JV in the arms race this year. Even Yates is a Tour podium candidate while being a super-dom. Both mutants and teams are looking equally impressive (they are able to drop the rest while riding 2+2) but the third week will give us the definite answer who is the stronger and better prepared.

 

[veganrob]

Pogacar's doping annoys the hell out of me because of the ridiculous nature of his win on Planche des Belles Filles. Roglic had a huge time advantage going into that (yes, I know Roglic was doping too). At the end of that TT, Roglic looked physically dead, like he needed medical assistance. Pogacar looked like had just been out for a casual walk, and he could have gone on for another hour without breaking a sweat. It was beyond a farce.

Last year, JV jumped Pogacar on one stage, gained a bunch of time, and then every stage after that, Pogacar finished ahead of JV, but TP could never quite recoup all the time. (Yes, I know that JV is doping too). TP pretending to attack JV in the Paris finale last year was a total douche move, no other way to spin that.

This year is pretty much the same script as last year. JV somehow gained time on TP on one stage, and then every other stage since, TP finishes ahead but can't quite gain all the time back (yet).

My question is, we still have an individual TT left. Shouldn't TP be able to blow JV away in that? I mean, they are fighting for a second in the mountains, but in the ITT, TP could put a minute into JV based on what we saw on PdBF before. I imagine TP will take the yellow after the ITT, and that will be the end of race.

All in all, cycling has become a total farce yet again. Why would any other team bother to waste a GC guy in a grand state race if TP or JV are in the race? If they aren't going to stop the obvious doping of UAE and Jumbo, then I guess I hope the other teams develop a doping program such that TP doesn't easily win every major race by a stupid margin.

Disclaimer: Yes, I hate Pogacar. I find him blatant and arrogant with his doping to a level that we haven't seen since Lance Armstrong.

You missed the entire Sky dynasty? Wiggo, Froome, Thomas?

 

[Amazinmets87]

Over a minute on WVA is ridiculous and such obvious doping.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

That performance deserves a post in The Clinic, so here is my post.

Hint: They're both doping...and so is everyone below them...deal with it.

 

[fbjim]

Tadej take my watts. And my blood. I've been hopped up on Red Bulls all morning

 

[Peyroteo94]

Give me a Landis please

 

[DrSahl]

That performance deserves a post in The Clinic, so here is my post.

Hint: They're both doping...and so is everyone below them...deal with it.

Obviously they are. Nobody have been in doubt with that for years.
But wait... no.. their performance is just because they are better than others and have the ACTN3 gene.........

 

[noob]

Ah, but Pog is no Pantani, who was laiden with a melancholic and hence tragic nature. With Pantani you got pathos. I don't get that from Pogacar, just brazenness. And Pantani had a Picassoesque aesthetic on the bike. An air of cubismo. It's not for everybody, but, like Guernica, was sensational to behold. To me, Pog looks comical while riding, in the sense that he literally looks funny whilst peddling. All that strange bobbing left to right. It's like he's dancing at a frat party! I agree, however, with what you say about Vingeggard and his avuncular demeanor. It's mumbo-jumbo propaganda, although I do get the sense he is meak. By contrast, with Pog's projected good grandson profile, I perceive something diabolical behind the facade.

But, as you say, just my opinion.

I cannot say for sure that Jonas doesn't have dark triad traits but to my eyes everything about him screams neurodiversity over the dark triad. I agree about "meak". Pog on the other hand the opposite; he does come off as on the dark triad.

The "tragic guy" in my eyes is Roglic. To me he comes off as similar to a comedian (old arcticle linked) He's now stuck in a role where he has to always be happy. That's the persona he - or possibly his team - cultivated for himself. There's also a madness in him that absolutely won't just be there without consequences for his mental life overall. That's my two cents. I love him though <3

All three of them though seems to like the game of toying with their rivals. That in itself is a sign of something

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Give me a Landis please

Teddy needs something spectacular to overturn the deficit indeed. His rival is slightly stronger than Landis' opposition though...

 

[SorelyBoy]

You missed the entire Sky dynasty? Wiggo, Froome, Thomas?

Behave. The racing was utterly different back then. And don’t @ me about inhalers ffs.

You missed the entire Sky dynasty? Wiggo, Froome, Thomas?

 

[Ripper]

At least I can keep up with this thread! Honestly, without Vigo, Pogo would be the ultimate doping extra terrestrial. And let's face it, he's a pretty charismatic guy in the media and we all like attacking riders (although the reason they're able to attack their competition so willfully is another story). But today was insane. He smashed everyone, and yet his time was obliterated (so he wasn't going slowly). I mean he wasn't far from being caught FFS

 

[noob]

Give me a Landis please

The one with the attitude in UAE seems to be Ayuso, but I ain't getting Landis vibes

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Give me a Landis please

Still love that guy!

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

At least I can keep up with this thread! Honestly, without Vigo, Pogo would be the ultimate doping extra terrestrial. And let's face it, he's a pretty charismatic guy in the media and we all like attacking riders (although the reason they're able to attack their competition so willfully is another story). But today was insane. He smashed everyone, and yet his time was obliterated (so he wasn't going slowly). I mean he wasn't far from being caught FFS

It's what always bothered me about Jens Voigt...he was likeable and gave us the phrase "Shut up legs," and everyone just fawned over him, even though he was doped to the gills.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Give me a Landis please

Nobody will ever take away the joy I felt, when I woke up that morning and the letter he sent to the UCI was published. Talk about thernonuclear.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

While we‘re talking about Landis, I fear this is the actual role of Pogačar and Yates, although that‘s underselling how unreal anything Pogačar does, is.

 

[nightowl]

It looks like the UCI/ASO are going to let Jumbo get away with today, so Pogi may as well visit the doctor and go Froome-ing tomorrow. May as well make the rest of the tour entertaining

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

It looks like the UCI/ASO are going to let Jumbo get away with today, so Pogi may as well visit the doctor and go Froome-ing tomorrow. May as well make the rest of the tour entertaining

I am not sure if the doctor would be enough, today looked like he needs divine intervention. May the Gods grant him magical gains tonight.

 

[XlandaluzeX]

those mitochondria dont know whats coming to them

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

those mitochondria dont know whats coming to them

I think it's the midi-chlorians that are in for an infusion into Pogacar.

 

[ppanther92]

Pogacar's doping annoys the hell out of me because of the ridiculous nature of his win on Planche des Belles Filles. Roglic had a huge time advantage going into that (yes, I know Roglic was doping too). At the end of that TT, Roglic looked physically dead, like he needed medical assistance. Pogacar looked like had just been out for a casual walk, and he could have gone on for another hour without breaking a sweat. It was beyond a farce.

Last year, JV jumped Pogacar on one stage, gained a bunch of time, and then every stage after that, Pogacar finished ahead of JV, but TP could never quite recoup all the time. (Yes, I know that JV is doping too). TP pretending to attack JV in the Paris finale last year was a total douche move, no other way to spin that.

This year is pretty much the same script as last year. JV somehow gained time on TP on one stage, and then every other stage since, TP finishes ahead but can't quite gain all the time back (yet).

My question is, we still have an individual TT left. Shouldn't TP be able to blow JV away in that? I mean, they are fighting for a second in the mountains, but in the ITT, TP could put a minute into JV based on what we saw on PdBF before. I imagine TP will take the yellow after the ITT, and that will be the end of race.

All in all, cycling has become a total farce yet again. Why would any other team bother to waste a GC guy in a grand state race if TP or JV are in the race? If they aren't going to stop the obvious doping of UAE and Jumbo, then I guess I hope the other teams develop a doping program such that TP doesn't easily win every major race by a stupid margin.

Disclaimer: Yes, I hate Pogacar. I find him blatant and arrogant with his doping to a level that we haven't seen since Lance Armstrong.

An expert, I see.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Bump

Bro looked to have gotten a fresh bag the last time he had a bad stage. Alien performance tomorrow possible.

 

[Ripper]

It looks like the UCI/ASO are going to let Jumbo get away with today, so Pogi may as well visit the doctor and go Froome-ing tomorrow. May as well make the rest of the tour entertaining

Oh, I think he's been to the doctor a lot already