Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Oldermanish]

I don't see how O'Connor's second at the Vuelta is all that shocking or puts Pogacar's year-long performance in any less dominating perspective. If Pogacar were on any other outfit than the one managed by Mauro Gianetti, I'd be less insistant in claiming something is awry. Next year we'll see a less victorious Pogacar, as he himself has said, to prevent "envy" from making things troublesome. If you can believe that.

Your point about Gianetti also has much history. In light of the fact that every American DS on the Big League level has also been involved with enhancements and busted riders suggests it's a matter of opportunity and evasion; not morality.
As far as Pogacar winning less it'll be down to other major players to quit racing to not lose too much and actually race. Time to unplug the wattage meters and let them race on speed and heart rate data without DS manipulation. IMO too much data has led to risk paralysis.

 

[hrotha]

I think it's funny to imply that Pogačar is more suspicious for riding for Gianetti than for being the crushingest winningest fella since Merckx

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's funny to imply that Pogačar is more suspicious for riding for Gianetti than for being the crushingest winningest fella since Merckx

It is, but the latter will be taken as praise and hype by fans who are less neurally gifted than we are.

 

[Extinction]

I think it's funny to imply that Pogačar is more suspicious for riding for Gianetti than for being the crushingest winningest fella since Merckx

No, the one exists in tandem with the other. It would have been almost equally the case with Ricco too, but then Gianetti wasn't working with the colossal petrol dollars he is now. Ironically, Saronni sealed the deal and then faded into oblivion.

 

[Extinction]

Your point about Gianetti also has much history. In light of the fact that every American DS on the Big League level has also been involved with enhancements and busted riders suggests it's a matter of opportunity and evasion; not morality.
As far as Pogacar winning less it'll be down to other major players to quit racing to not lose too much and actually race. Time to unplug the wattage meters and let them race on speed and heart rate data without DS manipulation. IMO too much data has led to risk paralysis.

But I don't think the Ricco-Piepoli bust and then Cobo in the post-Armstrong era can be matched. Not to mention that Gianetti himself had to be rushed to the hospital for poisoned blood during his career.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

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This kind of power makes no sense if Remco was generating similar. Teddy was doing easily over 400 watts to demolish his rivals like that. I don't believe this kind of "source" at all but his outrageous Lombardy performance was worrying (regarding possible motor usage). I'm really hoping this is not the case.

 

[Nick2413]

This kind of power makes no sense if Remco was generating similar. Teddy was doing easily over 400 watts to demolish his rivals like that. I don't believe this kind of "source" at all but his outrageous Lombardy performance was worrying (regarding possible motor usage). I'm really hoping this is not the case.

400W for the last 50k of lombardia seems unrealistic even for him though, all of it doesn’t really make sense.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

400W for the last 50k of lombardia seems unrealistic even for him though, all of it doesn’t really make sense.

Why? He did about 430-440 watts on the ascent and was pushing like crazy on the flat and rolling part. No reason to think the average would drop below 400 watts. I agree that the descent could've decreased his average power but I'm almost certain that the average (weighted by time) of climb and post-descent section should be 400+ watts.

 

[Nick2413]

Why? He did about 430-440 watts on the ascent and was pushing like crazy on the flat and rolling part. No reason to think the average would drop below 400 watts. I agree that the descent could've decreased his average power but I'm almost certain that the average (weighted by time) of climb and post-descent section should be 400+ watts.

For one if Remco’s power really was 340W as he claims then it’s hard to imagine Pog being 20% higher even for the flat portion where we know it’s harder to push the same Watts for whatever physics reasons. 400W is the number everyone throws around whenever X worldbeater rider is soloing to victory on the flats, but in reality it’s usually been way lower than that when we see the numbers, even in recent times for riders like MVDP.

But with the current alien-like state I guess nothing would surprise me.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

For one if Remco’s power really was 340W as he claims then it’s hard to imagine Pog being 20% higher even for the flat portion where we know it’s harder to push the same Watts for whatever physics reasons. 400W is the number everyone throws around whenever X worldbeater rider is soloing to victory on the flats, but in reality it’s usually been way lower than that when we see the numbers, even in recent times for riders like MVDP.

But with the current alien-like state I guess nothing would surprise me.

To even match Remco's pace Pog would likely need 350-360 watts (due to aero disadvantage and larger body mass). And 10-15% more power on flat gives you barely 4-6% larger speed. Pog gained 2 minutes over Remco in less than 30 km. Do calculations yourself.

 

[Froome]

The relationship between UCI and UAE is scary.

They can put whatever they want on this fraud, even if he test positive, they will hide, like they did with armstrong.

 

[Shakes]

Romain Bardet : "Ma conception du métier n'était plus en phase avec celle du milieu" - Eurosport

Romain Bardet a accordé un entretien à Eurosport dans lequel il évoque sa retraite, son maillot jaune sur le Tour de France, Tadej Pogacar...

www.eurosport.fr

Bardet is having severe doubts about events since 2020.

I can still get results but I won't win many races every year. There was the desire to anticipate a little of a decline that is inevitable and also to be in touch with my values, my ethics, my personal hygiene and my conception of the profession which is no longer totally in phase with that of my environment. Before this dissonance becomes too great, I think we have to know how to say stop.

That's when things got crazy...
RB : Of course, it's well documented. It's difficult to find the right tone to talk about it between the old glory looking for excuses to no longer occupy the front of the stage and being aware of a phenomenon of global acceleration of cycling. In 2020, there is the stage that arrives in Laruns and which passes by the Col de Marie-Blanque. It's the first day that I felt overtaken in the mountains. I'm not saying that I've never been dropped before, it's often happened to me, but there I had a good day and I really felt that there was a real difference compared to the very best. I have the flash of when they started, it was really fast. I knew Froome's accelerations but it was still less impressive.

This year 2020 marked the advent of Tadej Pogacar. How do you judge his 2024 season?
RB : I don't know what to say. I'm ignoring it. Honestly, it's not the same weight category. I'm surprised but, at the same time, he has put together the immense potential that we saw in him. Apparently, he didn't know how to train. Now, he knows. He puts together a potential that we saw in recent years on his first two Tours de France that he wins over in class. He is so superior... It's difficult to explain. I don't spend much time looking for explanations. Even being contemporary and in the environment, we have the feeling of not really being one of his opponents.

More good parts, even better, than this.

 

[troll hunter]

The relationship between UCI and UAE is scary.

They can put whatever they want on this fraud, even if he test positive, they will hide, like they did with armstrong.

Much less scary than when the corrupt british government bribed the UCI presidency by buying votes and putting a british president in charge of both the UCI and WADA.

and this british dude began his journey to become a Grand Tour GOAT.

 

[Froome]

Much less scary than when the corrupt british government bribed the UCI presidency by buying votes and putting a british president in charge of both the UCI and WADA.

and this british dude began his journey to become a Grand Tour GOAT.

There isn't any british Grand Tour GOAT.

But there was a guy from kenya who wasn't that bad in Grand Tours!

 

[Pannenkooky]

Some fishy Pogi's situation, when 1+1 isn't 2:
- TDF 2020 ITT LPDBF: 1:21 ahead of 2nd, he had no watt meter on TT bike
- ITT TA 2022: Pogi averaging 320 W and been in the red zone for 2 % total time. Ganna averaging 530 W and been in the red zone 86 % of total time. Ganna was 2nd, Pogi 3rd only 7 sec behind Ganna (found on reddit)
- most stage wins in Giro 2024 and TDF 2024: no signs od fatigure whatsoever despite breaking all the records
- TDF 2024: constatly you could see around 30 % less calories burned during mountain stages than his main rivals
- Lombardia 2024: Remco had same watts as Pogi in the valley after last climb, but he gained 2 minutes over Remco. This is from cyclinguptodate: Although Evenepoel was a clear second, finishing well ahead of the race for 3rd, the Soudal - Quick-Step leader was in turn, clearly distanced by Pogacar by the time the finish line arrived. "There was about an Instagram post by Velon with his average wattage of the last hour and a half. That couldn't be right, because I had the same wattage and was three minutes behind. So I sent him: I want to know what you really pedalled," recalls Evenepoel. "Tadej didn't tell me

Yes. After LA won his first TDF in 1999 David Walsh (journo) started investigating him and US Postal; USADA starting investigating in 2012. Why did USADA eventually cave and say they were investigating? Pressure from other teams, angry opponents, outsiders, who? Articles are already out in the foreign press noting Pogacar's "pas normal" performance.

 

[Pannenkooky]

Some fishy Pogi's situation, when 1+1 isn't 2:
- TDF 2020 ITT LPDBF: 1:21 ahead of 2nd, he had no watt meter on TT bike
- ITT TA 2022: Pogi averaging 320 W and been in the red zone for 2 % total time. Ganna averaging 530 W and been in the red zone 86 % of total time. Ganna was 2nd, Pogi 3rd only 7 sec behind Ganna (found on reddit)
- most stage wins in Giro 2024 and TDF 2024: no signs od fatigure whatsoever despite breaking all the records
- TDF 2024: constatly you could see around 30 % less calories burned during mountain stages than his main rivals
- Lombardia 2024: Remco had same watts as Pogi in the valley after last climb, but he gained 2 minutes over Remco. This is from cyclinguptodate: Although Evenepoel was a clear second, finishing well ahead of the race for 3rd, the Soudal - Quick-Step leader was in turn, clearly distanced by Pogacar by the time the finish line arrived. "There was about an Instagram post by Velon with his average wattage of the last hour and a half. That couldn't be right, because I had the same wattage and was three minutes behind. So I sent him: I want to know what you really pedalled," recalls Evenepoel. "Tadej didn't tell me

One of LA's giveaways was not even getting out of the saddle during climbs and obliterating competition. Pogi is pushing these insane watts for so long and he doesn't look winded at all afterwards, seems fine. Not normal

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998


@yaf someone is smoking a lot of carbon monoxide!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998

 

[Extinction]

Romain Bardet : "Ma conception du métier n'était plus en phase avec celle du milieu" - Eurosport

Romain Bardet a accordé un entretien à Eurosport dans lequel il évoque sa retraite, son maillot jaune sur le Tour de France, Tadej Pogacar...

www.eurosport.fr

Bardet is having severe doubts about events since 2020.






More good parts, even better, than this.

I love R f-ing B! He's true class.

 

[troll hunter]

Romain Bardet : "Ma conception du métier n'était plus en phase avec celle du milieu" - Eurosport

Romain Bardet a accordé un entretien à Eurosport dans lequel il évoque sa retraite, son maillot jaune sur le Tour de France, Tadej Pogacar...

www.eurosport.fr

Bardet is having severe doubts about events since 2020.

More good parts, even better, than this.

He confirms that Froome and British cheaters were the worst.

I think cycling was in a much worse situation in terms of drug use when I joined the pros than it is now.

Romain Bardet : "Ma conception du métier n'était plus en phase avec celle du milieu" - Eurosport

Romain Bardet a accordé un entretien à Eurosport dans lequel il évoque sa retraite, son maillot jaune sur le Tour de France, Tadej Pogacar...

www.eurosport.fr

 

[Nick2413]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998


@yaf someone is smoking a lot of carbon monoxide!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998

If this CO stuff is as straightforward as it seems they’re going to have to start policing HCT level alone and give up entirely on catching specific substances.

 

[Ripper]

Much less scary than when the corrupt british government bribed the UCI presidency by buying votes and putting a british president in charge of both the UCI and WADA.

and this british dude began his journey to become a Grand Tour GOAT.

Post it in the Froome thread if it means that much to you. It has not so much to do with the current UAE - UCI relationship

 

[Rob5091]

Romain Bardet : "Ma conception du métier n'était plus en phase avec celle du milieu" - Eurosport

Romain Bardet a accordé un entretien à Eurosport dans lequel il évoque sa retraite, son maillot jaune sur le Tour de France, Tadej Pogacar...

www.eurosport.fr

Bardet is having severe doubts about events since 2020.






More good parts, even better, than this.

Apparently, he didn't know how to train.

Comedy gold!!

 

[yaf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998


@yaf someone is smoking a lot of carbon monoxide!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856396752506818998

View: https://x.com/CyclingUpToDat3/status/1856396752506818998

Ok pog is unknown for you in 2023🤣 when he became the 1st rider in this century to win the tour of flanders as a tour de france winner☹️Everyone knows he was the best rider in 2023 with the exceptions of his vulnerabilities in the tours heat. If it was carbon monoxide visma also admitted that they used it. Bardet was just talking about 2nd tier riders who he used to beat now they are way ahead of him

 

[troll hunter]

It has not so much to do with the current UAE - UCI relationship

What relationship? Is that UAE-owned cycling app sponsoring the so-called indoor world championships? The desperation level is getting very pathetic here.

Ok pog is unknown for you in 2023🤣 when he became the 1st rider in this century to win the tour of flanders as a tour de france winner☹️Everyone knows he was the best rider in 2023 with the exceptions of his vulnerabilities in the tours heat. If it was carbon monoxide visma also admitted that they used it. Bardet was just talking about 2nd tier riders who he used to beat now they are way ahead of him

My guess is that he was talking about Derek Gee.

 

[Mayomaniac]

What relationship? Is that UAE-owned cycling app sponsoring the so-called indoor world championships? The desperation level is getting very pathetic here.


My guess is that he was talking about Derek Gee.

Exactly, that comment was almost certainly about him and IPT, who work with a big company involved with that tech.