Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Stablo]

You're missing the point. How can they call Pogacar a doper but ignore the guy who beat him twice in the tour and MvDP that won P-R over Pogacar. Where is the logical consistency?

Who has been ignoring the other two? I have been saying it before, that this has gotten so out of hand that i hope anyone wins but Poggie, no matter if theyre cheating too. MvDP beating Poggie in P-R is a lot lot less crazier, than a 65kg current GT and highmountain goat being almost equal to the 75kg specialist in that race. You have to see that, have to?

 

[Froome]

Oh behave yourself. First of all Froome was squeaky compared to Pogacar. Nothing he did remotely compares in terms of performances. And the other thing is that he’s old news. Pogacar is doing it now, and doing things that quite frankly insult my intelligence.

Froome was clean compared with Pogacar.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I brought up Vingegaard to the discussion because some user made a post directly comparing the two, accusing one and condoning the other.

I don‘t like that post they made but I don‘t think there was a comparison, they just called Pogačar Dopačar and said they hope Vingegaard would win, they didn‘t really compare Vingegaard‘s doping at all. Fair enough, though, I kind of missed the start of the conversation

 

[YellowSocks]

Pogi's fans are really intringuing.

 

[Stablo]

I brought up Vingegaard to the discussion because some user made a post directly comparing the two, accusing one and condoning the other.

If you're talking abt me, I didn't compare them. I said basically that's this has gotten so silly and boring that i hope Vinge beats Poggie in the Tour, even though I don't like him that much either. The message is still there and you can take another look, if you didn't get it at the first time. You started calling me hypocrite, because of that and saying but he dopes too buhuu, well no sh*t Sherlock, he just hasn't been doing a lot of crazy stuff since 2023. Need to also ad what else have been saying too, the UAE&Gianetti&Poggie bs is unmatched, so rather even Vinge, peace.

 

[Stablo]

I don‘t like that post they made but I don‘t think there was a comparison, they just called Pogačar Dopačar and said they hope Vingegaard would win, they didn‘t really compare Vingegaard‘s doping at all. Fair enough, though, I kind of missed the start of the conversation

I am sorry you didn't like it, but i was simply implementing that I hope even Vinge can win, cause this has become so stupid. Dopacar is nickname that has been used somewhere else too like the monster etc. can't take the credit for it, peace.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Lately theres a new agenda in the clinic section, accuse Pogacar of everything and Vingegaard who won 2 TdF's of nothing. It's baffling, the hypocrisy I'm reading of some others users here. I hope it's bait because it would suck to be this clueless.

Mate go look at the Jonas Vingegaard's thread on here from the day of Combloux, we all went mad on the forum about JV's performance, myself included. It was an iconic day on the clinic.
But that was one race, Pogacar shows up to the classics and just smashes all of the 'specialists' as if they are cat 4 racers. He literally hasn't had a bad day since the Col de la Loze stage in the TDF two years ago (amstel doesn't count he was still attacking an came 2nd). This is just unheard of and absurd. This is the equivalent of Alberto Contador showing up at Paris Roubaix and smashing prime Boonen/Cancelara, it's bonkers when you put it that way.
Also, Mauro Gianetti is his boss, do I need to continue?
I was a massive Pogacar fan boy up until last year btw, but its gone from being entertaining to him making a complete mochary of the sport.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Froome was clean compared with Pogacar.

Lance Armstrong is Bassons compared to the Pogster.

 

[Ripper]

Lately theres a new agenda in the clinic section, accuse Pogacar of everything and Vingegaard who won 2 TdF's of nothing. It's baffling, the hypocrisy I'm reading of some others users here. I hope it's bait because it would suck to be this clueless.

This is trolling, yes?

 

[Ripper]

We've also been talking about Michael Storer this week, a guy who's never beat Pogačar or Vingegaard, and if Remco (and Skjelmose to a lesser degree) had continued to perform like he did last week, we'd also have mentioned him much more in the Clinic. It would have been the same with Cristian Scaroni if he had suddenly returned to greatness after his mysterious absence. That's recency bias for you, not hypocrisy.

Thank you!

Recency bias is absolutely a clinic phenomena.

When someone is not racing (or blasting strava, or something else obvious), it is pretty hard to say anything about them based on their current actions

 

[Gratemans]

I brought up Vingegaard to the discussion because some user made a post directly comparing the two, accusing one and condoning the other.

As is usual, this thread gets diluted by fans of either one or the other. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying most people on this paritcular thread feel that both of them are doped up the gills. You just see it as one big attack on your Pogiboy because, well, you're a fan.

I've got nothing against either of them, I've just seen both of them putting out performances that are quite honestly ridiculous.
And I've been watching this sport for about 25 years. By now I've thouroughly learned that when it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably surely is a duck. And that's regardless of who you might favour.

Doping? Yet-to-be outlawed but not-quite-yet sorts of stuff? Motors? I really don't know. But something is clearly rotten in the state of Denmark.*


*That's a Hamlet quote, and has no literal bearing on any rider, Danish or not

 

[Froome]

I don't have a problem with the fact he is doped.

My problem is that this guy is a 10 times a worse version of Lance Armstrong.

Firstable he is not that talented to achieve what he is achieving, just take a look to his results when he was young. He wasn't a nobody, but he never showed the qualities to do what he is doing now, or to be so superior to the others riders.


This guy is a 10 times worse version of Lance Armstrong because just like Armstrong, this guy is protected by UCI, but he is also protected by the sheiks. This guy who is a tik tok armstrong, a clown who thinks he's funny by putting the helmet in a stupid way, is probably one of the fakest guys in the history of the sport.

This guy is certainly using something the others can't use to achieve this results, and he is getting covered by UCI and the sheiks.

The resources he is having, are way superior to what others are using, and i am still believing more in the theory of the motor, who is getting covered by UCI.

I am waiting for the day, cycling get's an explosion again, and these people are arrested once and for all.

I don't get it, how in 2025 we have Gianetti and Matxin side by side with pogacar, and nobody cares.

 

[Stablo]

I don't have a problem with the fact he is doped.

My problem is that this guy is a 10 times a worse version of Lance Armstrong.

Firstable he is not that talented to achieve what he is achieving, just take a look to his results when he was young. He wasn't a nobody, but he never showed the qualities to do what he is doing now, or to be so superior to the others riders.


This guy is a 10 times worse version of Lance Armstrong because just like Armstrong, this guy is protected by UCI, but he is also protected by the sheiks. This guy who is a tik tok armstrong, a clown who thinks he's funny by putting the helmet in a stupid way, is probably one of the fakest guys in the history of the sport.

This guy is certainly using something the others can't use to achieve this results, and he is getting covered by UCI and the sheiks.

The resources he is having, are way superior to what others are using, and i am still believing more in the theory of the motor, who is getting covered by UCI.

I am waiting for the day, cycling get's an explosion again, and these people are arrested once and for all.

I don't get it, how in 2025 we have Gianetti and Matxin side by side with pogacar, and nobody cares.

Too tired to write a lot myself anymore, but this almost 100%. The winter brake from cycling was good, but this spring was worse than i expected, the hype&mockery on P-R and everything. The attack in Fleche looked as much as an e-assistance that anything can. Im certain like you, that this disgrace team combo has an clear advantage over others peds or some sophisticated motor.
Goodnight and at least Poggie is not racing before Dauphine, phew😅

 

[Gratemans]

My problem is that this guy is a 10 times a worse version of Lance Armstrong.

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

If we are just talking about his performances on the bike, he is definitely 10x worse than Armstrong. Armstrong was good for literally one race a year, Pogacar is turning up to every race and destroying everyone. His performances make Armstrong look clean. Off the bike is a different story of course.

 

[Cookster15]

Froome was clean compared with Pogacar.

But this is the Pogi / Gianetti thread. Mauro Gianetti became infamous for EPO CERA at the 2008 Tour de France. Yet at that race Cadel Evans was never genuinely concerned about Saunier Duval - Cadel was rightly focused on Saxo Bank. To their credit the UCI quickly cleaned up that mess. And it wasn't only Gianetti's riders who were busted for CERA - eg Bernard Kohl / Stefan Matschiner. Ricco and Kohl were never the best riders of the peloton.

Whataboutism is very difficult to avoid in this thread. You are right that Froome's peak performances are way below what Pogacar (+Vingegaard and Remco) is doing. Chris Froome transformed in 2011 at 26 from cannon fodder for Barloworld to a multiple grand tour winner for Sky. Pogacar arrived when he was barely 20 years old and still maturing (he won Tour de l'Avenir when he was still 19).

 

[Stablo]

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

I think he meant worse by the means of cheating. Lance basically only did it once a year in the biggest race of them all. Poggie sure seems "nicer" as a personality, but have to also say that in current circumstances he can also do that. The questions are still very little if you compare to what his doing, Lance surely got a lot of heat&sh*t back in the days. The silence is one thing that annoys me, specially with the backing team he has.
Edit. Ashhutch1997 was faster

 

[Casual cyclist]

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

On the other hand, to be fair it has to be said that a normal average person like I and possibly you could only find that out by watching the idiot box or from similar channels which one has to be quite naïve to unconditionally trust in anything they spew.

 

[pelotonIQ]

I don't have a problem with the fact he is doped.

So the problem for you is that he is winning too much? Maybe he should copy his boring rival Vingegaard and limit himself to 2 important races a season. That way he will never become 'goat' [content deleted].

 

[Rackham]

Pogi's fans are really intringuing.

It's nothing new.

L.A. had his fanboys, as did Froome. Contador as well etc. I'd like to believe most people are at least aware the peloton is riding on some sort of rocket fuel since around 2020, i.e. stuff that makes whatever Sky was on look pathetic by comparison.

We can speculate a whole number of things but to me it looks like some riders need to get the timing absolutely spot on for a nuclear performance (Evenepoel for example who took about 5 steps forwards between the Dauphiné and the Tour last year) whereas Pog seems to manage his non-nuclear races (like Amstel) by almost winning them.

And that's the thing, i.e. cycling 'experts' on social media and in the press evidently have no idea what they're talking about because after Amstel we were precisely told it was evidence of Pog's spring curve form descending whilst Evenepoel was getting better. And then the opposite happened. People believed the same in the Tour last year after Vinge beat Pog at the Lioran, i.e. that Vingegaard was on the 'up'. But then the Pyrenees happened and Niermann and co couldn't believe their eyes when their boy got demolished on Beille. Grischa Niermann was heard on the radio saying something like "come on, Pogi doesn't like this high tempo" or something like that when Visma were drilling it. After the stage (& Vinge's massive defeat) Visma made the decision to opt out of the radio communications being shared on TV.

 

[HashRouge]

I take it back then. I fully agree with you in that motor-doping is well beyond any biological enhancement which could be considered acceptable while keeping the nature of the sport intact. Unfortunately, as one well-known Guardian sports journalist wrote last year, cycling may be drifting towards WWE these days. And the general public seems to like it so far.

From what I can see online, Pogi's long range attacks are not very popular. The general response seems to be "this is boring" or even "Pogi's killing cycling". This is another reason I'm not sure I buy the idea that the UCI is complicit - surely they would tell Pogi/ UAE to tone it down a bit? I.e. win, but make it look more competitive?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Easy there tiger. No he's not. As far as I'm aware, he hasn't actually tried to destroy peoples careers or lives.
I'm no fool but let's not preted he's frigging worse than Armstrong. That's just just preposterous.

To play the devil's advocate: No, but maybe he's also never had to even attempt it. You know, since he has the backing of an unscrupulous regime that has no issues committing human rights violations left and right. They have an amazing sports-washing project going for them, and it's costing them a fraction of what a football team would. Who's to say that they are not the ones putting pressure on anyone prolific who is trying to question the sporting validity of their project?

 

[pelotonIQ]

It's nothing new.

L.A. had his fanboys, as did Froome. Contador as well etc. I'd like to believe most people are at least aware the peloton is riding on some sort of rocket fuel since around 2020, i.e. stuff that makes whatever Sky was on look pathetic by comparison.

We can speculate a whole number of things but to me it looks like some riders need to get the timing absolutely spot on for a nuclear performance (Evenepoel for example who took about 5 steps forwards between the Dauphiné and the Tour last year) whereas Pog seems to manage his non-nuclear races (like Amstel) by almost winning them.

And that's the thing, i.e. cycling 'experts' on social media and in the press evidently have no idea what they're talking about because after Amstel we were precisely told it was evidence of Pog's spring curve form descending whilst Evenepoel was getting better. And then the opposite happened. People believed the same in the Tour last year after Vinge beat Pog at the Lioran, i.e. that Vingegaard was on the 'up'. But then the Pyrenees happened and Niermann and co couldn't believe their eyes when their boy got demolished on Beille. Grischa Niermann was heard on the radio saying something like "come on, Pogi doesn't like this high tempo" or something like that when Visma were drilling it. After the stage (& Vinge's massive defeat) Visma made the decision to opt out of the radio communications being shared on TV.

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour which means that anti-doping had to be precise with their timing if they were going to catch them and despite them doping during a small part of the season many of them still got caught. Pogacar, on the other hand, is racing like he does, winning, beating everyone year round season after season. If we presume Pogacar is doping why haven't anti-doping caught him? If a thief robs a bank every weekend he would be caught in no time.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour ...

Jesus Christ, are we now at a point where Pogistans are questioning the concept of ..... building form? Because that is what you're describing. It's called peaking. Most riders need to build their season around a few select goals for which they need to try to time their peak form. So when Pogi is competitive from February through October? Yeah, that is the outlier. Hard to think of many others who have been able to do the same. El Bala comes to mind, and we all know that we don't have to speculate whether or not he was clean.

 

[Rackham]

One thing you're missing is that all of the mentioned riders above (Contador, Froome, Armstrong) all had the same racing trajectory i.e got beaten and looked beatable before the tour to suddenly destroying everyone in the tour which means that anti-doping had to be precise with their timing if they were going to catch them and despite them doping during a small part of the season many of them still got caught. Pogacar, on the other hand, is racing like he does, winning, beating everyone year round season after season. If we presume Pogacar is doping why haven't anti-doping caught him? If a thief robs a bank every weekend he would be caught in no time.

Yeah that's really not a proper defense right there. Just look at his team, i.e. Pog's UAE teammates clean up everywhere or at least they're close albeit on a lower level with Almeida, Ayuso etc. so whatever they're doing it's clearly organized at a team level. Just like Visma. There's no "good guys" here in this arms race.

And this isn't directed at you personally per se but for me one of the most delirious parts of the cycling 'fandom' if we can call it that is using Merckx as some sort of GOAT barometer. The man was a notorious doper. So when I see or hear cycling 'journalists' attempt to portray Pogi as 'clean' whilst unironically calling him the new Merckx, then lol I guess.