Maybe. It's hard to judge exactly how good he was. He was already a guy who, in '04 and '05, could hang with Armstrong in the mountains at the Tour. I'm not sure a big leap in level was necessary to dominate the competition in the Giro. The Tour that year would have given us some answers, but it wasn't to be.
- Aug 9, 2021
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This is so true!
I mean "he just loves racing" is far more fitted for a 22 year old in the public discourse.
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- May 27, 2022
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I disagree, LA got absolutely hammered by the press from day one. These days the press don't even dare ask questions
Yep. With people like Armstrong and Riis, there were many journalists asking questions. There's a famous interview with Riis angrily responding to a doping question.
These days Pogacar is pumped full of more dope than LA and Riis combined, and no one dares to ask questions. It's the weakest mentality of all time.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Pog had plenty of incredible performances under his belt before 2024. It's true that in 2024 he upped his game but claiming a two-time TdF winner (once winning with 5+ minutes) was a donkey-turned-a-racehorse is a bit ridiculous. If anything, 2023 is a negative outlier in terms of performance which interestingly coincides with his injury.
There is absolutely no comparison between him and Lance who went from barely being a GC rider into a guy with most TdF victories of all.
2023 is not really a negative outlier when he also got destroyed by Jonas in 2022, and in 2020 Roglic looked dominating until the final TT. Also in 2021 Jonas dropped him on Ventoux.
2024 is the only Tour where nobody dropped him uphill.
I don't think anyone is claiming that, but that likely wouldn't even raise as many eyebrows as that's something we've seen before. It's his race racehorse to racecar transformation that's unprecedented. That's why people are speculating that something strange is up, since no one has ever been able to achieve that with "traditional means"
All of the signals exist that Pogacar is on a special programme. You would need to be a fool to suggest otherwise but then I'd say the majority of riders are getting assistance, just that UAE have taken it to extremes. It always amuses me to hear former pros like Gilbert complaining because it's not like he is concerned that he is doping, it's simply so that they don't have to sit in a TV studio and try to rationalise and eulogise over the extreme performance level. They are happy enough to go along with the doping just as long as it doesn't exceed an acceptable level.
- May 27, 2022
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David Walsh and Paul Kimmage made careers off trying to take down LA.
- Jun 22, 2010
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Walsh is a hypocrite. Paul Kimmage was the only guy legitimately trying to do that.
I have far more respect for Kimmage.
That’s two journalists out of how many? And not even two.
- Apr 3, 2009
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He was lionized by the press for his Cancer "Awareness" initiatives. Not for actually donating to cancer research but for raising "Awareness". That seemed to involve his mobility via private jet that expensed costs to Livestrong. Not much more. That slid right up to the point that Landis finally went rogue and testified.
That Lance was granted an audience with Oprah to wash his sins still stands as one of the greatest moments in sportswashing. Watch the interview and he could've salvaged some of his humanity by being totally honest. He still hedged...
And yet there are still folks that want to give him back his "victories".
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
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If my recollection is right these guys didn't get any traction on LA until after 2005. Lance had 'won' 5 of his 7 Tours by then.
LA was certainly not "absolutely hammered by the press from day one". That happened later. Armstrong's story unraveled with his comeback. The Opera interview wasn't until 2013.
- Apr 3, 2009
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Nah, he started getting questions immediately, literally the day after Sestrieres. Pointed questions about doping and whether he was clean. Had a press conference eventually to address all the talk.
The press and the sport have basically accepted that no one is going to bust the top guys. Just not good for business. Cycling was the only sport "shooting itself in the foot" in this way.
David Walsh and Pierre Ballester published L.A. Confidentiel in 2004 that led pretty quickly to a court case, so they'd been banging on doors with the story for a while. But I agree, Armstrong had been largely left to his own devices for much of his career. If he'd retired gracefully after five he might have gotten away with it.
But remember how he had to distance himself from Ferrari to placate people. Surely Gianetti's history is not much better, and yet even Walsh says 'oh, you know, I'm sure Tadej is a good boy and subsists on milk and muesli'.
Just imagine if, in a moment of weakness, he had given in to temptation and transfused one of those bags Fuentes was minding for him 'just in case'?
- Apr 10, 2019
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Pogacar's climbing times would be nothing compared to what he could have done, big if indeed...
We also had a UCI President (mr. Pat) actually in business with Lance and his financial fairy, Thom Weisel. The attempts to lure ASO to sell to them when Lance made the comeback displayed very bad conflict of interest; as if the UCI was ever more than a carnival operation for the benefit of major promoters and sponsors. Lance can get some credit for skewing that pay imbalance for riders by demanding more. Not that it was designed to benefit the entire peloton.
I am afraid Pogacar is like Indurain. Never caught but obviously on some sauce but still well regarded. Hopefully something is done about Pogacar as it is ridiculous but I am afraid that won't happen.
Personally I can't take the press and commentators anymore with statements 'best period in cycling ever', 'he is teaching everyone how to ride a bike', 'galacticos' and such non skeptical of fanboy comments.
Energy/power is finite. There is a reason we hardly ever had 100k solos from protagonists. There is a reason there was teamwork and main guy finished it off in the last kilometer. Since power differences were there but small. You couldn't waste it even if you were the best cyclists. Now they just spend energy, energy and energy and still go faster than ever or stay away from a chasing group. It does not make sense.
Personally I can't take the press and commentators anymore with statements 'best period in cycling ever', 'he is teaching everyone how to ride a bike', 'galacticos' and such non skeptical of fanboy comments.
Energy/power is finite. There is a reason we hardly ever had 100k solos from protagonists. There is a reason there was teamwork and main guy finished it off in the last kilometer. Since power differences were there but small. You couldn't waste it even if you were the best cyclists. Now they just spend energy, energy and energy and still go faster than ever or stay away from a chasing group. It does not make sense.
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