TDF 2012: Titans Collide. Dennis Menchov Versus Cadel Evans...possible rivalry.

[The Hitch]

He won't. He's not that good of a climber without Contador to drag him along. His climbing legs are only as good as his brother's anyway.

Andy got dropped by Philippe Gilbert on a cat2 climb for crying out loud.

It's my opinion, you don't need to agree with me.

So did Contador tbf.

 

[FF'Wilco]

Barring crashes there is no way AS doesn't make the tour top 4. He has regularly dropped all the riders mentioned above since coming on the scene. If you are considering that Menchov and Evans can recall their form of previous years why can't Schleck find the climbing legs from 08, 09 or 10?

My god, Wiggins despite being in absolutely great form got dropped by Westra in Paris-Nice.

It's like saying Bart de Clercq dropped everyone (including Contador) on Montevergine during last year's Giro.

 

[El Pistolero]

So did Contador tbf.

When I'm using someone's argument against him, it usually means I don't agree with that argument

I was talking about the stage to Gap though.

 

[The Hitch]

When I'm using someone's argument against him, it usually means I don't agree with that argument

I was talking about the stage to Gap though.

Yeah and i was talking about the stage to Galibier.

 

[The Hitch]

It's like saying Bart de Clercq dropped everyone (including Contador) on Montevergine during last year's Giro.

I think its more like saying that Froome dropped everyone on Pena Cabarga.

When I'm using someone's argument against him, it usually means I don't agree with that argument

I was talking about the stage to Gap though.

Yeah and i was talking about the stage to Galibier.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yeah and i was talking about the stage to Galibier.

Gilbert didn't out-climb him there though

 

[roundabout]

It's like saying Bart de Clercq dropped everyone (including Contador) on Montevergine during last year's Giro.

Not really.

But also that doesn't mean that much when it comes to July.

 

[Unkown]

He won't. He's not that good of a climber without Contador to drag him along. His climbing legs are only as good as his brother's anyway.

Andy got dropped by Philippe Gilbert on a cat2 climb for crying out loud.

It's my opinion, you don't need to agree with me.

Really, did you watch any of 2010 TDF or do you only count results from the previous year, because I am pretty sure most people would say Contador and Schleck were equal climbers then. Andy did most of the attacking that Tour, whenever he wanted to he was away from any other rider other than Contador of course. Your absolute hatred for Andy just makes me laugh. If Andy has his 2010 TDF form he will be the best climber by a long shot at the 2012 TDF.

 

[El Pistolero]

He will lose more time in the time trials than he will gain in the climbs, so he will not make it in the top 4. All I'm saying. I don't hate cyclists, maybe you do, but I don't.

If you think Andy will make it in the top 4 than feel free to think that. Not sure what the problem is really.

There are 2 mountain stages that end on descents, so he won't gain any time there. After all, descents don't belong in GTs.

 

[uphillstruggle]

It's like saying Bart de Clercq dropped everyone (including Contador) on Montevergine during last year's Giro.

No it's not. Westra was a direct GC threat.

@ Pistolero: Andy Schleck was so afraid of Contador countering him that he was a lamb until the last two stages. He even followed him on the Alpe Stage which I felt cost him the tour in the end. If he goes in with 08, 09, 10 form he will put more time into at least one of the 4 you mentioned than they put into him in the TT's. Not all of them mind, I don't think he will win, but one of Evans, Menchov Sanchez, Wiggins will lose big time on one of the mountain stages. You don't have to agree with this Analysis of course

 

[cineteq]

Methinks Wiggins vs. Evans is a sexier title/discussion.

PS: Menchov will be a non-factor in this year's Tour.

 

[Fetisoff]

/taking a quick glance at the calendar/

Yep, still April 10th. Thought so.

/exiting this thread not to look at it for at least 2 more months/

 

[hfer07]

Both strong veteran riders, with Menchov probably the greatest all around cyclist to ever live has his best chance for a Tour win. If he is ever going to win the tour, it will be this year, and it will complete his rider portfolio, winning all Grand Tours.

Only one man truly stands in Menchov's way, and that's Cadel Evans.

These two titans are ambassadors to the sport. Living legends in their own right on the pedals.

I would favor Menchov however overall. If he can finally be free of bad luck in this tour, I think he can climb better than Cadel, and he can beat Cadel in the time trial. But Menchov being free from bad luck is like a rattle snake without his rattle...probably not likely.

I think we might see a rivalry between these two. I think Cadel and Menchov are head and shoulders above everyone else barring Andy some how musters up great time trials, or has a legendary showing in the mountains.

well- lets just say IF both reach the Tour in great shape & ride aggressively- then we'll witness a great battle. One factor nobody has mentioned here is that Evans is going to face loads of pressure from being the current champion-and that might affect his mind-ala 2008 when the critics literally crowned him as winner since Contador wasn't participating then-and we know what happened.....& there is Menchov with his awful ups & downs in performance-& lack of attacking initiative...he just cannot do that this Year- this is his last chance-so he better be ready to suffer...

 

[karlboss]

There will be a rivalry Menchov/Evans but it will be for second place. As much as it pains me to say, Wiggins has this one in the bag, UK Postal will deliver him to every MTF. It's going to be boring as hell but that's what the forum wants so who am I to judge. BTW did you notice no one calls him Wigans anymore. Teams and riders who make GT's exciting are frowned upon in this place.

It'll be an epic battle of the oldies, all three combined will probably make for the oldest TdF podium of all times.

Wiggins may win, but I can't believe Sky will have a train. The best they could do is something like Froome, Uran, Henao, Rogers, Porte...and frankly RSNT will be laughing at that line up and RSNT have more to gain in the mountains.

 

[airstream]

No it's not. Westra was a direct GC threat.

@ Pistolero: Andy Schleck was so afraid of Contador countering him that he was a lamb until the last two stages. He even followed him on the Alpe Stage which I felt cost him the tour in the end. If he goes in with 08, 09, 10 form he will put more time into at least one of the 4 you mentioned than they put into him in the TT's. Not all of them mind, I don't think he will win, but one of Evans, Menchov Sanchez, Wiggins will lose big time on one of the mountain stages. You don't have to agree with this Analysis of course

At that rate such a great form will predetermine a lesser loss in TT and he will win the Tour.

I don't understand as well what Sky train you are talking about. The train that goes at the front and lulls the race as they did on the Vuelta or the train that drills the peloton and takes away Wiggins to paradise? Both options are unreal. Wiggins will salvage himself on his own. If the team will have to do that it is a bad sign for him.

 

[ItsWitz]

Bikies & Bikers,

One important factor in who might win the Tour is .... who has the fortune to survive the first week !!! Here's my idea for a Tour format which would be very much safer ..... each team (22 teams) has nine riders ... BUT ... only five ride each day. This reduces the field by 1/2 .... (making things less dangerous) AND presents a new strategy by having more "rested" riders. Of course, GC riders (ie team leaders) ride every day!

and Damn, ... WHY don't they design a race-specific follow vehicle with NO doors !?!?!

(i've followed the Tour since 1968).

ok guys, .. tear into it!

witz

 

[taiwan]

Westra in Paris Nice: saying he dropped Wiggins gives the impression that Wiggins couldn't hold his wheel. As I remember it, Westra attacked while Wiggins was at the front of the bunch and noone responded, likely because he wasn't considered one of the main threats. If e.g. Leipheimer attacked, I reckon Wiggins would have been right on the wheel.

Don't know what the purpose of the thread was, but while Menchov is a potential winner IMO, it's not a straight battle between him and Evans. Indeed Wiggins and Sanchez are up there, Andy Schleck will be too, and possibly Kloeden. That's not mentioning the inevitable surprise contender/s.

 

[blaxland]

Possible Rivalry?I dont think so?Menchov has never won the TDF and never ever will'but placing 2nd/3rd on the podium maybe?? He wont win it and definantley wont beat Cadel Evans"his team cant support him enough.On the other hand i think this is Wiggins best chance to win and has a strong group of riders to support him.Menchov,Schleck and co should be happy with placing on the podium?

 

[c&cfan]

I hate Evans so much that i'd rather see Schleck winning the 2012 Tour than to see Evans winning again.

this.

andy is an idiot and nobody (cycling true fans) takes him seriously.
but evens is one of the biggest hypocrites of the sport.

 

[c&cfan]

Methinks Wiggins vs. Evans is a sexier title/discussion.

PS: Menchov will be a non-factor in this year's Tour.

how can you say that? except contador he is the best (palmares wise) GT cyclist out there and the tour is the only thing left that can motivate him. Also, he has a team and a country supporting him. he also showed at last years vuelta final stages that he could destroy the entire field anywhere anytime.

so.. you are basing your opinion on what?

why not educate yourself first?

 

[Caruut]

this.

andy is an idiot and nobody (cycling true fans) takes him seriously.
but evens is one of the biggest hypocrites of the sport.

Not disagreeing with you, but why exactly do you say that about Evans?

 

[RHRH19861986]

Both strong veteran riders, with Menchov probably the greatest all around cyclist to ever live has his best chance for a Tour win. If he is ever going to win the tour, it will be this year, and it will complete his rider portfolio, winning all Grand Tours.

Only one man truly stands in Menchov's way, and that's Cadel Evans.

These two titans are ambassadors to the sport. Living legends in their own right on the pedals.

I would favor Menchov however overall. If he can finally be free of bad luck in this tour, I think he can climb better than Cadel, and he can beat Cadel in the time trial. But Menchov being free from bad luck is like a rattle snake without his rattle...probably not likely.

I think we might see a rivalry between these two. I think Cadel and Menchov are head and shoulders above everyone else barring Andy some how musters up great time trials, or has a legendary showing in the mountains.

I absolutely agree, Menchov is my Nr. 1 vote for this years Tour, and Evans/Wiggins for second. Glad to see others also thinking this way, and not speaking about A. Schleck all the time.

But I wouldn´t call Menchov "greatest all around cyclist to ever live". He´s nevertheless one of the greatest GT GC riders of the age of mid ´00 until mid ´10.

Great rider, extremely professional, more professional than most of the ever so professional HighRoads, Garmins, and Skys.

And to the pessimists: Menchov has one Giro, 2 Vueltas, and was third (2008) and second (2010) in the Tour, so he certainly can win the Tour, especially with no Contador being there this year. Evans now has won the Tour, maybe this makes him lack the deciding piece of motivation, and Wiggins with "his" London Olympics in mind... Menchov would be a great winner of the Tour 2012, no question about that.

 

[42x16ss]

I still think that Gesink, Van Den Broeck, Kreuziger and Nibali will be more than capable of unsettling the likely top 5. One or two of them could certainly finish top 5 based on abillity, most likely Gesink or Nibali.

Evans, Sanchez, Menchov, Schleck and Wiggins in any order are the most likely top 5 but it certainly isn't set in stone.

 

[RHRH19861986]

I still think that Gesink, Van Den Broeck, Kreuziger and Nibali will be more than capable of unsettling the likely top 5. One or two of them could certainly finish top 5 based on abillity, most likely Gesink or Nibali.

Evans, Sanchez, Menchov, Schleck and Wiggins in any order are the most likely top 5 but it certainly isn't set in stone.

Oh, yes, you´re right, I forgot Van den Broeck. I guess he can do the podium.
Nibali and Kreuziger Top5, yes, why not.

Gesink? Hmm.. Question shouldn´t be if he´s amongst the first five riders, rather whether he crashes out and breaks something / gets ill in the first three or five stages.

 

[robert_c]

What? No love for Voeckler?