TDF 2012: Titans Collide. Dennis Menchov Versus Cadel Evans...possible rivalry.

[cineteq]

What? No love for Voeckler?

Now, that's funny!

 

[movingtarget]

Possible Rivalry?I dont think so?Menchov has never won the TDF and never ever will'but placing 2nd/3rd on the podium maybe?? He wont win it and definantley wont beat Cadel Evans"his team cant support him enough.On the other hand i think this is Wiggins best chance to win and has a strong group of riders to support him.Menchov,Schleck and co should be happy with placing on the podium?

Menchov has only looked impressive in the Tour in 2010 even though he has won both the Giro and the Vuelta impressively. Menchov was supposed to have had illness issues last year. I think the Tour is very open but I still think Evans is the one to beat. The course is a really good one for Wiggins but one slip up in the mountains and he cannot win. Schleck can't win because whatever he gains in the mountains will be possibly doubled as a loss in the TTs as someone else mentioned. I also that think the strength of the R/Shack team is overrated.

 

[42x16ss]

Oh, yes, you´re right, I forgot Van den Broeck. I guess he can do the podium.
Nibali and Kreuziger Top5, yes, why not.

Gesink? Hmm.. Question shouldn´t be if he´s amongst the first five riders, rather whether he crashes out and breaks something / gets ill in the first three or five stages.

LMAO! True, but if Gesink does get through that first week he'll be fine and with Garate, Ten Dam, LL Sanchez, Mollema and possibly Kruiswijck (spelling?) he'll have a solid squad that can get him there. He'll just need to finish it off.

Also, Pierre Rolland to make the top 10.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Klodi has this one in the bag. Obviously.

 

[orangerider]

Menchov will do well and capable of winning but it's going to be very difficult. One of Menchov's greatest strengths is his wicked kick at the line of a slightly uphill sprint, which unfortunately goes to complete waste without time bonuses. He would easily fly past the Schlecks, Wiggins, Levi, Evans, and only be second to Samu.

 

[Forunculo]

Klodi has this one in the bag. Obviously.

Do you expected Bruyneel try to repeat 2009 TdF again?

 

[airstream]

Menchov will do well and capable of winning but it's going to be very difficult. One of Menchov's greatest strengths is his wicked kick at the line of a slightly uphill sprint, which unfortunately goes to complete waste without time bonuses. He would easily fly past the Schlecks, Wiggins, Levi, Evans, and only be second to Samu.

Totally far-fetched. Who did Menchov outsprint at the finish line? Only Leipheimer lol, Sastre and il Killer on a bad day for him. Menchov will be constantly thrown away out of the group 4-5 best climbers, what a wicked kick are you talking about?

I also that think the strength of the R/Shack team is overrated.

But Evans' strength, using which he will stamp Grenoble TT's as a piece of cake, is not overrated?

 

[Ferminal]

Totally far-fetched. Who did Menchov outsprint at the finish line? Only Leipheimer lol, Sastre and il Killer on a bad day for him. Menchov will be constantly thrown away out of the group 4-5 best climbers, what a wicked kick are you talking about?

Nah, Menchov to drop Phil on Stage 1 with his wicked kick.

 

[webbie146]

Nah, Menchov to drop Phil on Stage 1 with his wicked kick.

lol! I never knew his wicked kick was that good

 

[uphillstruggle]

Westra in Paris Nice: saying he dropped Wiggins gives the impression that Wiggins couldn't hold his wheel. As I remember it, Westra attacked while Wiggins was at the front of the bunch and noone responded, likely because he wasn't considered one of the main threats. If e.g. Leipheimer attacked, I reckon Wiggins would have been right on the wheel.

I've just watched it again and Wiggins looks close to his limit. He also gets to the front and strings his group out (which obviously indicates he ups the pace a bit) trying to close Westra down. Impressive as he was on a climb that didn't suit him he was dropped by a rider who ended up 8 seconds back on GC.

I want to Menchov win the tour out of him and Evans. Mainly because I like to see new riders/underdogs win races. But hopefully both Menchov and Evans put good time into the climbers in the first TT so we see some proper attacking in the mountains. I will be bitterly disappointed if the mountains are tempo ridden.

 

[greenedge]

Evans is in my view better in the mountains and all-round will produce better 3 ITT's ( barring crashes/ mechanicals ).

Menchov has the potential to win but Evans is defending champion. It's more of a battle between Wiggins and Menchov.

 

[eljimberino]

I think people are forgetting how consistently well Evans rode over the three weeks of last years tour. It wasn't just the major stages. IMO he won the tour on stage 16.

Uphill sprint? Was it stage three Evans rode to victory?

I like Menchov, but I do not think he can be that consistent.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Lol @Menchov being disregarded and then talking about Wiggins.

Menchov would've killed Wiggins at last Vuelta if he wasn't working for Cobo.

Menchov has won three GT's.

Menchov podiumed the TDF twice.

What did Wiggins ever do to get mentioned alongside Evans and Menchov? Podium the Vuelta behind his domestique? Lose half a minute to Menchov on El Angliru when Menchov wasn't even trying because he couldn't ride behind his captain?

Sure, Menchov isn't known for his consistency, so maybe Menchov'll suck and if Wiggins does realy well, then Wiggins might finish ahead of him. But if Menchov and Evans show up in shape and don't crash, Wiggins can forget about contending.

It's not as if I dislike Wiggins that much, he might do really well this TDF and podium, but Menchov is a much much better rider. I get annoyed when people disregard somebody who podiumed two TDF's and won three GT's and then talk about somebody who's best GT results are a 4th place in the TDF and a 3rd place in the Vuelta.

 

[Gloin22]

Lol @Menchov being disregarded and then talking about Wiggins.

Menchov would've killed Wiggins at last Vuelta if he wasn't working for Cobo.

Menchov has won three GT's.

Menchov podiumed the TDF twice.

What did Wiggins ever do to get mentioned alongside Evans and Menchov? Podium the Vuelta behind his domestique? Lose half a minute to Menchov on El Angliru when Menchov wasn't even trying because he couldn't ride behind his captain?

Sure, Menchov isn't known for his consistency, so maybe Menchov'll suck and if Wiggins does realy well, then Wiggins might finish ahead of him. But if Menchov and Evans show up in shape and don't crash, Wiggins can forget about contending.

It's not as if I dislike Wiggins that much, he might do really well this TDF and podium, but Menchov is a much much better rider. I get annoyed when people disregard somebody who podiumed two TDF's and won three GT's and then talk about somebody who's best GT results are a 4th place in the TDF and a 3rd place in the Vuelta.

Right Most pathetic excuse ever. You also gotta add it was Wiggo's first race after breaking collarbone too

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Right Most pathetic excuse ever. You also gotta add it was Wiggo's first race after breaking collarbone too

Well, even if you choose to disregard that fact, Wiggins didn't show anything in GT's to make him get mentioned alongside a three time GT winner. Wiggins only made it to the top 10 of a GT twice.......

Since 2005 Menchov made it to the top 10 of GT GC's every year. In 2008 and 2011 he even made it to the top 10 of 2 GT's. Is that enough consistency for you?

 

[airstream]

Menchov would've killed Wiggins at last Vuelta if he wasn't working for Cobo.

It is told like Menchov paved the victory for Juanjo whereas he just didn't interfere Cobo on Pena Cabarga. If Menchov had been strong enough, they would have both got away on Angliru.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

It is told like Menchov paved the victory for Juanjo whereas he just didn't interfere Cobo on Pena Cabarga. If Menchov had been strong enough, they would have both got away on Angliru.

Well, maybe I said a bit too much, but the fact remains that while Menchov didn't go at Angliru, because his captain was in front winning the Vuelta, Wiggins still lost half a minute to Menchov.

Anyways, even if I come back on that statement, it doesn't change the fact Menchov is a much better GT rider than Wiggins.

Again, I'm not disregarding Wiggins, I'm sure he'll do well this TDF, but no way is he a better GT rider than Menchov. Thus it annoys me when people disregard Menchov for being inconsistent (despite continually getting top 10 GC results in GT's since 2005), and then go on to talk about how it'll be a battle between Evans and Wiggins, while Wiggins has only managed to get a top 10 twice in a GT.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Well, even if you choose to disregard that fact, Wiggins didn't show anything in GT's to make him get mentioned alongside a three time GT winner. Wiggins only made it to the top 10 of a GT twice.......

Since 2005 Menchov made it to the top 10 of GT GC's every year. In 2008 and 2011 he even made it to the top 10 of 2 GT's. Is that enough consistency for you?

Of course if you evaluate the riders on past results only Menchov is the man, but if we look at recent trends Wiggins looks much better imo. Besides the TdF parcours is tailor made for grinders with very strong TT capabilities. Wiggins and Evans are the men to beat in this years TdF, however should Menchov suddenly find himself at the top of the pile as we approach the end of the race, I am pretty confident that race action would have been great.

 

[theyoungest]

Of course if you evaluate the riders on past results only Menchov is the man, but if we look at recent trends Wiggins looks much better imo. Besides the TdF parcours is tailor made for grinders with very strong TT capabilities. Wiggins and Evans are the men to beat in this years TdF, however should Menchov suddenly find himself at the top of the pile as we approach the end of the race, I am pretty confident that race action would have been great.

What in Wiggins' recent Tour history makes you think he is the man to beat for this race?

 

[airstream]

omg, dutchmen like menchov more than russians.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

What in Wiggins' recent Tour history makes you think he is the man to beat for this race?

I think you have to look a bit broader than that. Wiggins is starting to win races and looks like he enjoys the leadership role. The Sky team seems to come together around him, everything appears "natural". I see a potential winner on a TdF parcours that suits him very much. You see Menchov at the top? Ok, no problem.

 

[cineteq]

Thus it annoys me when people disregard Menchov for being inconsistent (despite continually getting top 10 GC results in GT's since 2005), and then go on to talk about how it'll be a battle between Evans and Wiggins, while Wiggins has only managed to get a top 10 twice in a GT.

You shouldn't be annoyed, Menchov has not been a solid GT rider at all in the last 2 years. His result in la Vuelta is pathetic where he WAS the leader, and still he couldn't get it done with a weaker field. So no, he IS NOT a favorite in this year's Tour. Wiggins IS.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

You shouldn't be annoyed, Menchov has not been a solid GT rider at all in the last 2 years.

Lol maybe last year, but he podiumed the TDF in 2010 remember, when Wiggins got 24th? You call that not having been a solid GT rider at all? That's a better result then Wiggins has ever gotten and it was only 1,5 years ago!

 

[guncha]

From these two I would pick Evans for simple reason - Evans is TDF 2011 champion while Menchov didn't show anything in 2011.

However, if Andy is in his best shape (like in TDF 2010) he will be the man to beat. For instance, in TDF 2010 Andy rode away from everyone except Contador in the mountains; when climbers are in best shape they can show an ITT of their lifetime (see Heras 05, Basso 06, Rasmussen 07, Sastre 08 etc.). If Andy is not in his best shape he has no chance.

 

[The Sheep]

From these two I would pick Evans for simple reason - Evans is TDF 2011 champion while Menchov didn't show anything in 2011.

However, if Andy is in his best shape (like in TDF 2010) he will be the man to beat. For instance, in TDF 2010 Andy rode away from everyone except Contador in the mountains; when climbers are in best shape they can show an ITT of their lifetime (see Heras 05, Basso 06, Rasmussen 07, Sastre 08 etc.). If Andy is not in his best shape he has no chance.

Yes it was their "shape" that made them TT better