TDF Stage 14 - Sunday, July 18 2010, Revel - Ax-3 Domaines, 184 km

[perico]

Hesjedal is built to be a domestique deluxe, much like Nicholas Roche. A little big and can't tt near as well as Vande Velde when he is not scraping himself off the pavement. Don't see him taking over the GC leadership from Vande Velde next year unless VdV still can't stay upright on his bike again (which is possible), although he (VdV) probably only has one more really good year left in him since he just turned 34 before his skills start to erode, and I read that he wants to change his programme around and skip the Giro next year so that he won't put himself in that position to play catch up.

 

[La Pandera]

Contador would be gambling as much as Schleck, what if he has an off day at the TT or a mechanical problem or Schleck overachieving, then 31 seconds are a lot. But to me it seems that he simply doesnt have the stamina to drop Schleck on a long climb, he looked pretty stressed on the final climb nowhere near the überform he had last year. Stage 12 was just a short high lactic affair and is not much an indication how strong he is on a long climb. I also have doubts that Contador is gonna do as well in the TT as he did last year.

Contador showed on the Mende stage that if he gets a decent gap on AS that he can increase upon it. The element of surprise is thus important and I believe AS realizes that. He has planted himself on Contador's wheel and essentially wouldn't budge unless Contador moved. IMO AS is playing a dangerous game or he lacks the confidence in himself to attempt to attack Contador after what occurred on the Mende stage. He has to increase the time he has on Contador. He can't think that he'll be able to cover the 30 seconds he currently has in the ITT.

It was quite evident that Contador was frustrated with AS's lack of initiative. Likely he hoped that upon pulling AS away from the group that they could have worked together to further distance the other contenders but only til the trackstand initiated by Contador did Andy eventually come around and begin to ride. By this time Menchov was up the road with Samu Sanchez in hot pursuit while Van Den Broeck, Gesink and Rodriguez were trying to take advantage of the battle within the battle between AC and AS. By this time if AC had the legs to mount another attack on AS he would have and if AS had the legs to take advantage of AC he either was fearful of blowing up or lacked the confidence to risk it.

If I were AC and Astana I would no longer try to set tempo on the penultimate climbs. Let Saxo do so with their depleted team. Let them wear themselves down. As a matter of fact send Vino out in another break to really make Saxo work thus putting Andy upfront further in the wind than Contador AND give Contador the advantage of riding behind Andy to allow for his surprise attacks.

Finally I was really expecting for Astana and AC to really lay the hammer down when AS dropped back to his team car for fluids and fuel. He wasn't really completely isolated at the time because I recall Sorensen still lingering at the back but likely on the verge of getting dropped. Valverde did the same thing in the 2008 Vuelta I believe which cost him several places in the overall.
I don't believe it would've have been thought as poor sportsmanship in this circumstance because it didn't involve a mechanical or a crash, just the race leader being isolated (somewhat).

 

[Mellow Velo]

Hi all

First I'd like to congratulate Christophe Riblonn, who got two mentions in this thread while every other loser on the planet got several dozen pages. He deserved it and it was a great ride.

Yes, a good point. Christophe Riblon gets another home win, for Ag2r, this time, while everybody here is immersed in the GC battle.
That was a gutsy ride, with the peloton hammering after the break and to be the last man standing.
He won in style.
Goes without saying, many of us gave him a silent "chapeau", without actually putting it into type.

 

[El Pistolero]

If I was Contador I had attacked when AS was getting water bottles. He'd have taken minutes on Andy Schleck as that baby can't descend. He even had to tell his mommy that he wont take risks in the descends.

Contador, ATTACK his weaknesses please.

1) He sucks at Time Trials. AC will gain time on that stage, but he can't put all his eggs in one basket.

2) AS sucks at descending and he doesn't want his mommy to cry so he will lose a lot of time on descends if Contador decided to attack near the end of a col just before a descend.

3) That baby(AS) gets his own water bottles and food. Attack when he's just about to reach the team car.



What a fool Andy Schleck is, he doesn't deserve to wear that maillot jersey.

 

[Rob_Roy]

Except if it comes down to it AC can still take it in the TT. It's not ideal for him because it's a bit of a gamble, but he'd still have much better odds than AS. Andy's the one who's losing with this little game, I'd say.

Knowing Riis, I bet they've picked one stage, and only one, where AS will try to put decisive time on AC. Probably on the Tourmalet.

If I recall right about Annecy ITT .

A.Schleck : at 18 km 20.46,at the top of the montain 38.09

A.Contador: at 18 km 20.03,at the top of the mountain 36.50


With this in mind I dont understand why Lil bro Schleck isnt trying to put big time into Contador.

On the FLAT part he lost 43 seconds,that was more than what he lost from check 1 to check 3.

I have to say that I think that Andy made one of his best ITT:s ever in Annecy.

This time it is all flat and longer.......

 

[La Pandera]

Plus the fact that he had a team mate up the road so trying to gain any more time would have meant he was riding against menchov, wohich would have been stupid beyond measure. HE was defintiely 1 of the better riders today, as long as tomorrow he doesn't fall, it puts Rabo in a good position for 2 in the top 5/6

+1
This explains it in a nutshell. He showed that he deserves his spot among the elite riders in the Tour. Usually by this point in the Tour the cream rises to the top and you have the same riders together once things get hot. That has shown to be AC, AS, Sanchez, Menchov, Rodriguez, Gesink and surprisingly, Van Den Broeck. VDB deserves all the praise that he is getting thus far. Menchov appears to showing less fatigue than riders like Leipheimer, Basso and to a lesser degree, Sastre. Sastre showed me alot by finishing ahead of Leipheimer and Basso after his failed attack, which shouldn't be surprising since his history in the Tour is he is less affected by fatigue as the Tour progresses than some of his rivals.

 

[van nelle]

on Kreuziger - I'm keeping eye on him, rate him pretty high but I very much argree with TY. He still seems to didn't make a progress in big mountains, more accurately he can handle one, but when there are multiple big ascents in one stage he blows on the last one (kind of) + he's got a bad record in stages after rest days. But he's good in minimizing loses on bad day, which is good sign for his age. I think he is capable of progress in the mountains to the very top level, but it will take him more time. With his characteristics, I can see it maybe as far as in 3-4 years (27-28).

+ maybe it's time for him to move on. After this year's Giro situation in Liqui is very different than before, and I'm not sure if it changed for Roman's good. And I think that he is exactly type of rider, who can very much benefit from strong team working for him (not Liquigas TDF "shared captaincy" BS with nobody doing any work for anybody at all)

 

[DamonAlbarn]

Charming....

If I was Contador I had attacked when AS was getting water bottles. He'd have taken minutes on Andy Schleck as that baby can't descend. He even had to tell his mommy that he wont take risks in the descends.

Contador, ATTACK his weaknesses please.

1) He sucks at Time Trials. AC will gain time on that stage, but he can't put all his eggs in one basket.

2) AS sucks at descending and he doesn't want his mommy to cry so he will lose a lot of time on descends if Contador decided to attack near the end of a col just before a descend.

3) That baby(AS) gets his own water bottles and food. Attack when he's just about to reach the team car.



What a fool Andy Schleck is, he doesn't deserve to wear that maillot jersey.

You really must have had a terrible childhood with all that hate?
Let it out mate, let it out. We are here only for you.

 

[nia O'Malley]

Yes, a good point. Christophe Riblon gets another home win, for Ag2r, this time, while everybody here is immersed in the GC battle.
That was a gutsy ride, with the peloton hammering after the break and to be the last man standing.
He won in style.
Goes without saying, many of us gave him a silent "chapeau", without actually putting it into type.

I've no idea where these extra O's and N's come from. They're not in my original post

 

[jazzcyclist]

I don't like Schleck and Contador's style of attacking. Instead of gradually lifting the pace and riding people off your wheel (bend-them-till they-break) the way Lance Armstrong used to do, they prefer the surge-and-recover style of attacking where you sprint for 15 to 30 seconds to try and drop your opponent, and if it fails, you slow down and recover before you try it again. I think surge-and-recover attacks are a less efficient use of your energy than bend-them-till-they-break attacks, considering that there's minimal drafting benefits at 12 m.p.h. especially in the thin air of the high mountains of the Alps and Pyrenees.

 

[Kazistuta]

A load of BS...

And you, sir...how old are you?

You should just have stopped after the first paragraph, which actually made sense.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Vandenbroeck is a definately a suprise. Ofcourse I've seen the Giro in 2008 where he was 6th (i think) and definately not much worse than Menchov for instance.
But after the Tour last year, where there was only 1 stage he didn't went into the long break in the mountains and rode for himself, I was more or less convinced he would be just in or outside the top 10, like Kreuziger.

Now it's clear he is actually part of the 5/6 strongest guys in the Tour. Confirming his once, huge potential he showed as a junior. But after his espoir period and first years as a pro, I thought he would never live up to the hype.
Boy has VDB2 shown me wrong.

 

[Delicato]

AS is just an arrogant ***. He basically said after the stage that he couldn't care less about Menchov-Sanchez attacks, and was only marking Contador. Apparently, he was just playing poker today. He only cooperated with AC because they were starting to lose too much time on Menchov with their standstill riding.

AC also said some lame excuse about today's stage. "The final ascent wasn't difficult enough". Eh,what?

 

[spanky wanderlust]

What a fool Andy Schleck is, he doesn't deserve to wear that maillot jersey.

yeah, andy's the fool.

fyi: maillot means jersey. jaune means yellow.

 

[scribe]

yeah, andy's the fool.

fyi: maillot means jersey. jaune means yellow.

That's what he said, he said.

 

[ttrider]

major well done to Luis leon and Menchov today for me
People are worried about menchov for the win simply because he looks like he has arrived in unbelievably good form today, at lots of times easily matching the ac as show
if he doesnt lose time with this form he could be devastating in the tt

he had bad form in dauphine yet still beat a comparatively better form ac by a minute
fact is he probs wont beat conti but as is either stupid or should be very worried

 

[dgodave]

No. Its the maillot guernsey. A charming leather jerkin.
.

 

[La Pandera]

I don't like Schleck and Contador's style of attacking. Instead of gradually lifting the pace and riding people off your wheel (bend-them-till they-break) the way Lance Armstrong used to do, they prefer the surge-and-recover style of attacking where you sprint for 15 to 30 seconds to try and drop your opponent, and if it fails, you slow down and recover before you try it again. I think surge-and-recover attacks are a less efficient use of your energy than bend-them-till-they-break attacks, considering that there's minimal drafting benefits at 12 m.p.h. especially in the thin air of the high mountains of the Alps and Pyrenees.

Well, that technique of attacking one's opponents did wonders for a certain rider in the 2009 Dauphine. He was reported to have tried it upwards of 20 times with no success.

Just because something works for one rider doesn't mean it will work for another. If you have explosive acceleration in the mountains then it would be to your advantage to put it to use and and use the element of surprise instead of simply trying to ride your opponents off of your wheel. If there is no wheel in front of them to latch on to then attempting to bridge a gap that has been created makes the effort that much more difficult.

Armstrong's attacks seemed so impressive because there was no one other than Pantani, who was nearing the end of his career, Mayo who was inconsistent and maybe Beloki who could initially match them.

 

[scribe]

major well done to Luis leon and Menchov today for me
People are worried about menchov for the win simply because he looks like he has arrived in unbelievably good form today, at lots of times easily matching the ac as show
if he doesnt lose time with this form he could be devastating in the tt

he had bad form in dauphine yet still beat a comparatively better form ac by a minute
fact is he probs wont beat conti but as is either stupid or should be very worried

There is some big hills to come yet, but you gotta figure this to look pretty good for the silent killer.

 

[La Pandera]

AC also said some lame excuse about today's stage. "The final ascent wasn't difficult enough". Eh,what?

Actually that seems to support AS's statement about Mende where he lost the 10 seconds he had gained on Contador on Avoriaz, that he doesn't like the short steep climbs that favor the explosive riders (Contador). Seemed to be a statement of fact supported by his chief rival.

 

[Nickbeam]

ok, so Schleck said, that he don't care about the attacks of Denis or Samu. so the question is, why did push so hard in the finish then?

 

[scribe]

ok, so Schleck said, that he don't care about the attacks of Denis or Samu. so the question is, why did push so hard in the finish then?

Contador begged him to work together to pull back some time to protect his second place position.

 

[Nickbeam]

Actually that seems to support AS's statement about Mende where he lost the 10 seconds he had gained on Contador on Avoriaz, that he doesn't like the short steep climbs that favor the explosive riders (Contador). Seemed to be a statement of fact supported by his chief rival.

before the stage to Mende, he said, that he knows the climb well and it suits him perfectly.

 

[Nickbeam]

Contador begged him to work together to pull back some time to protect his second place position.

ye, we all saw Bertie "begging" didn't we?

 

[scribe]

Actually that seems to support AS's statement about Mende where he lost the 10 seconds he had gained on Contador on Avoriaz, that he doesn't like the short steep climbs that favor the explosive riders (Contador). Seemed to be a statement of fact supported by his chief rival.

I've seen little to suggest Shrek is incapable of following so-called explosive attacks. In fact, he seems to change gears at will on any climb.