TdF TTT - GC winners & losers

[hughmoore]

Let me draw a finer point VeloCity. Now here is the crucial question. Are you certain that Carlos could have made up his final winning margin of just 1:05 had it not been for his teammates, the Schleck bros, constant feints and parries on the slopes of L'Alpe D'Huez?

[my edit - here is the start list]

Evans was beaten by better TEAM with three potential GC winners. Same in last years GIRO when Liquigas had two potential GC winners. He had to chase on one stage and Basso sat behind that day saving himself for the next which enabled him to gain time.

Also when he had to chase down the dopers Ricco & co in the TDF, that day cost him also which Im sure had an impact.

Its important you have domestiques in the mountains who can chase down attacks (unless your Contador who is doing the attacking ala this years Giro)


Hugh

 

[benpounder]

Evans was beaten by better TEAM with three potential GC winners. Same in last years GIRO when Liquigas had two potential GC winners. He had to chase on one stage and Basso sat behind that day saving himself for the next which enabled him to gain time.

Also when he had to chase down the dopers Ricco & co in the TDF, that day cost him also which Im sure had an impact.

Its important you have domestiques in the mountains who can chase down attacks (unless your Contador who is doing the attacking ala this years Giro)


Hugh

Thank you Hugh for making my point.

While the TTT is important, and does suit certain teams better, the overall GC race depends upon team strengths, strengths outside thier ability to time trial. Yes, you have to have a strong team leader, one that can ride on his own. But, to only focus on ones team's lack of ability in the TTT ignores a just as crucial significant strengths, or lack thereof, in other realms so important to winning a stage race GC.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Evans was beaten by better TEAM with three potential GC winners. Same in last years GIRO when Liquigas had two potential GC winners. He had to chase on one stage and Basso sat behind that day saving himself for the next which enabled him to gain time.

Also when he had to chase down the dopers Ricco & co in the TDF, that day cost him also which Im sure had an impact.

Its important you have domestiques in the mountains who can chase down attacks (unless your Contador who is doing the attacking ala this years Giro)


Hugh

Yes I agree as that and the crash on the descent on the Aspin is what lost him the 2008 tour. He fought very well just to get 2nd that year.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

People have won GTs with less team support than Evans had when he came in 2nd, 5th or 30th.

Of course, team strength is a factor, but keep in mind that Evans chose BMC over far better teams. Weak-*** BMC was his team of choice. They may have a good team next year, but not this year, and definitely not in 2010. He also chose to stay with Lotto for god knows how many years.

When did taking responsibility for one's actions go out the window?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Tell me which team he would of gone to and be realistic...

 

[gregrowlerson]

I think that the Shack should do very well. They might have 4 of the best 10 ITT's in the TDF.

I am not a big fan of the TTT, but there have been some good points made about the help that some riders get from having strong companions in the mountains, and that help in a TTT is just another form of help in a GT. So perhaps have them, but count the times individually, not as the 5th rider finishing. And also bring back TIME BONUSES!!!

 

[Winterfold]

Like it or not cycling is a team sport.

And TTT is the purest expression of a cycling team in action - done properly it is a thing of beauty and ultimate skill and balls.

If you don't love TTT then you hate cycling and love cancer.

Simples.

 

[supercameron]

nobody has mentioned Europcar yet. Will they repeat their 09TTT as BBox and is it going to affect their chances of wearing yellow early on in the mountains

 

[just some guy]

If you don't love TTT then you hate cycling and love cancer.

Simples.

So far this is the most stupid thing I have read on this Forum.

What the FVck has Cancer got to do with a team time trial - yes thats right nothing - Muppet.

 

[Anonymous]

So far this is the most stupid thing I have read on this Forum.

What the FVck has Cancer got to do with a team time trial - yes thats right nothing - Muppet.

Exactamundo.

 

[Parrulo]

So far this is the most stupid thing I have read on this Forum.

What the FVck has Cancer got to do with a team time trial - yes thats right nothing - Muppet.

Exactamundo.

hint: it was clearly sarcasm and he was making an obvious mention to the armstrong years. . .

 

[just some guy]

hint: it was clearly sarcasm and he was making an obvious mention to the armstrong years. . .

sarcasm for some offensive, dumb etc to others - you would think Armstrong was the only person in the world who has has cancer..............

 

[Parrulo]

sarcasm for some offensive, dumb etc to others - you would think Armstrong was the only person in the world who has has cancer..............

i am trying to study here so i won't waste my time explaining you this

 

[auscyclefan94]

Like it or not cycling is a team sport.

And TTT is the purest expression of a cycling team in action - done properly it is a thing of beauty and ultimate skill and balls.

If you don't love TTT then you hate cycling and love cancer.

Simples.

If Pat McQuiad made a moronic post index, this would be a 10.

 

[just some guy]

i am trying to study here so i won't waste my time explaining you this

one day when your all grown up and an adult you will learn, maybe

 

[gregrowlerson]

Like it or not cycling is a team sport.

And TTT is the purest expression of a cycling team in action - done properly it is a thing of beauty and ultimate skill and balls.

If you don't love TTT then you hate cycling and love cancer.

Simples.

Must be trolling.

Cracked me up though!

 

[Winterfold]

Cheers Parrulo

ACF - from you that is a compliment

other dude - I DO enjoy the TTT and I DO think people who say they 'hate' the TTT are missing out on a test of precision, skill and teamwork that you do not see elsewhere in the GT which is a part of the sport as much as any other. People who only want to watch 60kg guys rip each others balls off in the high mountains dont appreciate the full spectacle of the sport.

the cancer bit was obvious sarcasm and a reference to the glory years - I'm not apologising for it though - I couldn't care less if we dont share a sense of humour.

 

[just some guy]

Cheers Parrulo

ACF - from you that is a compliment

other dude - I DO enjoy the TTT and I DO think people who say they 'hate' the TTT are missing out on a test of precision, skill and teamwork that you do not see elsewhere in the GT which is a part of the sport as much as any other. People who only want to watch 60kg guys rip each others balls off in the high mountains dont appreciate the full spectacle of the sport.

the cancer bit was obvious sarcasm and a reference to the glory years - I'm not apologising for it though - I couldn't care less if we dont share a sense of humour.

Cancer is not Funny

 

[Parrulo]

one day when your all grown up and an adult you will learn, maybe

learn what? stop being silly all that happened here was that you failed to detect sarcasm and one of the recurrent jokes on this forum in a post and got all **** hurt when some1(in this case me) pointed that out to you.

p.s. jesus christ you mist be really thick headed for not getting the joke. its not the cancer part that is supposed to be funny its the armstrong part in it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Back on topic, I am not saying that it isn't a good event to watch but it is not necessary to be a factor in a grand tour. Ultimately cycling is an individual sport where the strongest riders battle it out in the mountains, time trials, on various road surfaces and weather conditions. A team race doesn't need to decide an individual classification.

 

[Bala Verde]

Ok. Here we go again.

Back on topic please: Talk TTT.

 

[Winterfold]

"Ultimately cycling is an individual sport"

Fail. track sprinting is an individual sport, ITT is an individual sport, road racing is a team sport.

Now I get why you dig Cuddles and BMC so much. They are trying to prove that cycling is an individual sport

Fair play to Evans - he does manage it from time to time. Never in a GT though...

 

[The Hitch]

So why dont Andy and Alberto ride without teammates? And to play out your scenerio, I'd grant a hovering support vechicle mere seconds behind.

Of course a strong team helps. And helps in many way on many stages. Frankly, I accept that many here dislike the TTT. What I disagree with is the argument that the TTT is inordinanetly unfair. And this is where most of the arguments against the TTT finaly land. My contention is that no more unfair than having a strong team through-out the race. All I've heard is how such and such rider can lose x amount of time just because they dont have a strong time trialing team. But rarely is the flip side acknowledged - that a strong mountian team likely insures that that same rider not lose time on mountain stages. Certainly, strong TT teams have readily apparent tangible benefits; team strengths elsewhere provide immeasurable, but no less tangible benefits. Focusing on only one side is avoiding the issue raised.

Excuse me in the mountains, a team helps, but ultimately if you are good enough you can stick with another team. If you are 20 seconds behind you can bridge to the other team.

In a ttt, if you are 20 seconds behind and even if you are Cancellara, you can not put in a monster attack to get those 20 seconds back because people like you tell said rider that he

A ttt is a whole different ball game. You keep acting like ttt is the flat equivalent of mountians but actually flat stages are the flat equivalent of mountains. A stronger team can try to drop you but if you are a sufficiently strong individual you can hang on, stay behind them and drop your team.

But in a ttt folks like you demand that certain individuals be tied down by chains, other given huge boosts, all based on who is on their team, and then cry "oh but a team is neccesary in the mountains too".

When a rider on a weak team in a ttt has the ability to bridge to follow a stronger team, then you can have your comparison. Until then it is totaly wrong.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The only support Cadel needs is a shoulder to cry on after another fail

 

[dlwssonic]

The only support Cadel needs is a shoulder to cry on after another fail