Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Angliru]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I feel this whole debate on budgets and parity seems very much influenced by the fact that people do not like a new team was set up with very deep pockets and have bossed the TdF for the past 5-6 years.

Professional sport is all about the have's and have-nots. Football you have the Real Madrid's, Man City's etc. F1 you have the Mercedes and Ferrari's that outspend their competitors

Having a huge budget does not guarantee success, you have to be a well run organisation who recruit correctly.

Katusha had a very large budget for a few years as did BMC but they did not have the same success as Sky so nobody moaned about their spending

If Sky had a 15-20m budget they could still boss the TdF if they wanted, they could recruit 8 guys whose sole objective of the year was the TdF. Budget does not change Sky's devotion to winning and setting up there whole season around the TdF

Quickstep, while not without it's own controversies and drama, aren't on the same level that Sky is on in that regard. I won't go into all the promises that they made (that they didn't keep) to make themselves seem like the saviours of the sport but the attention and feedback that they receive is a result of their own media machine drowning the fans in never ending news about every minute detail of their daily lives.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I don't get the vibe that Quickstep is particularly popular in this forum, although a bunch of their riders are. More of a grudging acceptance of their strength and tactics than fandom imo.

Ok pick another team then.

Let's say Movistar, had a 50m budget

they have Valverde, Quintana and Landa as leaders promising riders such as Soler

if they signed a bunch of domestiques, got fancy buses and bossed the GT's for 4-5 years would people be up in arms? probably not to the same degree as they are now over Sky

This is an English language site. It's only natural that the extraordinarily successful British team would be under much more scrutiny and receive more attention than Quickstep or Movistar.

 

[spalco]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Ok pick another team then.

Let's say Movistar, had a 50m budget

they have Valverde, Quintana and Landa as leaders promising riders such as Soler

if they signed a bunch of domestiques, got fancy buses and bossed the GT's for 4-5 years would people be up in arms? probably not to the same degree as they are now over Sky

I don't know. Other high-budget teams got a lot of *** too, although none were as successful as Sky - Katusha, BMC, so it was more ridicule or schadenfreude I suppose.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the fans' feelings towards Sky are entirely undeserved or unbalanced really. I mean, they did win 4/6 of the GTs in the last two years and 6/7 of the previous Tour de Frances and most of them in fairly dominant ways. I think it's normal that breeds resentment.

I get what you're saying, but I don't feel Sky is treated unfairly. It seems to me, pro cycling being an niche sport itself generally has fans that are especially supportive of niche/underdog teams/riders too; at least in this forum. And whatever you think of Sky they are just the opposite of that.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Britain's richest man, Jim Ratcliffe, has announced £1bn worth of investments in the UK oil and chemical industries.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47376169

With these huge numbers, buying Sky seems like a small side-deal for them.
I am guessing they won't be wearing the "save the oceans" whale shirts anytime soon again.

and do you know why they won´t be wearing the Ocean-Rescue jerseys?

Because it would be hypocritical?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/ineos-arrival-casts-environmental-cloud-over-team-sky/

no because the SPONSOR HAS CHANGED

the riders, the DS, even Dave B DID NOT DECIDE to wear the ocean rescue jersey. SKY, the main sponsor and owner, did it

now SKY Leaves. and a DIFFERENT SPONSOR, not linked in anyway with sky or ocean rescue come in.

every team promotes what the sponsor pays for. it´s not the riders or Dave B that decided to wear Ocen-rescue and woke up Yesterday saying, bin that! now we wear Ineos jersey.
it´s not hard to understand if you are not biased against the team

it´s like when Belkin became LottoNL

did anyone ask why did they change from router and informatic hardware to Lotto-gambling?
no
because that´s how sponsors change

 

[Tim Booth]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

looking forward to seeing those

PLASTIC IS
FANTASTIC

jerseys

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

And here I was hoping racing would get exciting again.
Anyway just another reason for me to cut down on plastic

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

no because the SPONSOR HAS CHANGED

the riders, the DS, even Dave B DID NOT DECIDE to wear the ocean rescue jersey. SKY, the main sponsor and owner, did it

now SKY Leaves. and a DIFFERENT SPONSOR, not linked in anyway with sky or ocean rescue come in.

every team promotes what the sponsor pays for. it´s not the riders or Dave B that decided to wear Ocen-rescue and woke up Yesterday saying, bin that! now we wear Ineos jersey.
it´s not hard to understand if you are not biased against the team

it´s like when Belkin became LottoNL

did anyone ask why did they change from router and informatic hardware to Lotto-gambling?
no
because that´s how sponsors change

Way to miss the point.

 

[bigcog]

Got to love all the virtue signalling and slagging off their new owners. Yes I am sure all those doing it don't buy any products made of or containing plastics or any products from the petrochemical industry ...

 

[CTQ]

here some events for children they support : http://www.gorunforfun.com/
https://thedailymile.co.uk/
they support initiative for good shape of employees https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-13/action-stations/

their plan for the next year https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-14/global-thinking/ you wonder why?????100% of INEOS polymers are recyclable, but currently, only about 14% of plastic gets recycled. Much of it ends up in landfill.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Ok pick another team then.

Let's say Movistar, had a 50m budget

they have Valverde, Quintana and Landa as leaders promising riders such as Soler

if they signed a bunch of domestiques, got fancy buses and bossed the GT's for 4-5 years would people be up in arms? probably not to the same degree as they are now over Sky

I don't know. Other high-budget teams got a lot of **** too, although none were as successful as Sky - Katusha, BMC, so it was more ridicule or schadenfreude I suppose.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the fans' feelings towards Sky are entirely undeserved or unbalanced really. I mean, they did win 4/6 of the GTs in the last two years and 6/7 of the previous Tour de Frances and most of them in fairly dominant ways. I think it's normal that breeds resentment.

I get what you're saying, but I don't feel Sky is treated unfairly. It seems to me, pro cycling being an niche sport itself generally has fans that are especially supportive of niche/underdog teams/riders too; at least in this forum. And whatever you think of Sky they are just the opposite of that.

I don't see fans in this forum being especially supportive of underdogs looking at who are the most popular riders now and previously. Contador, Cancellara, Boonen, Gilbert, Sagan, Nibali, Dumoulin and yes Froome has quite a few fans. Hardly underdogs. Maybe Pinot is a bit of an underdog and I guess that Porte fans live in hope. Evans was probably seen as an underdog by some, in the Contador era.

 

[topcat]

Everyone's an underdog against Team Sky. It took 2 teams to beat Sky in the 2016 vuelta. It's human nature to cheer for David versus goliath.

 

[F_Cance]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I would. Definitely.

 

[Bolder]

I'd like to see the figures on how many plastic water bottles wind up in the ditches of European roads every year. I'm no flaming environmentalist but that drives me nuts -- surely the UCI could find a way to end the use of single-serve bottles that get tossed by the riders. Now that's hypocritical.

As for Ineos...so what? It's not as if a single person changed their opinion about Sky as a media company or a cycling team sponsor, nor about Froome et al as good or bad riders/guys because of the ocean rescue jerseys. Plastics are certainly no worse for the human condition than gambling, fake wood floors or dodgy pharmaceuticals...

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I'd like to see the figures on how many plastic water bottles wind up in the ditches of European roads every year. I'm no flaming environmentalist but that drives me nuts -- surely the UCI could find a way to end the use of single-serve bottles that get tossed by the riders. Now that's hypocritical.

From the road race regulations:

"Conduct of riders
2.2.025 Riders may not, without due care, jettison food, bonk-bags, feeding bottles, clothes, etc.
in any place whatsoever.
Riders may not jettison anything on the roadway itself but shall draw to the side of the road and safely deposit the object there.
If waste zones are established by the organiser, the rider must safely and exclusively deposit their waste on the sides of the road in this area."

They just need to enforce it.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

no because the SPONSOR HAS CHANGED

the riders, the DS, even Dave B DID NOT DECIDE to wear the ocean rescue jersey. SKY, the main sponsor and owner, did it

now SKY Leaves. and a DIFFERENT SPONSOR, not linked in anyway with sky or ocean rescue come in.

every team promotes what the sponsor pays for. it´s not the riders or Dave B that decided to wear Ocen-rescue and woke up Yesterday saying, bin that! now we wear Ineos jersey.
it´s not hard to understand if you are not biased against the team

it´s like when Belkin became LottoNL

did anyone ask why did they change from router and informatic hardware to Lotto-gambling?
no
because that´s how sponsors change

Way to miss the point.

Yes, he certainly did.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I'd like to see the figures on how many plastic water bottles wind up in the ditches of European roads every year. I'm no flaming environmentalist but that drives me nuts -- surely the UCI could find a way to end the use of single-serve bottles that get tossed by the riders. Now that's hypocritical.

From the road race regulations:

"Conduct of riders
2.2.025 Riders may not, without due care, jettison food, bonk-bags, feeding bottles, clothes, etc.
in any place whatsoever.
Riders may not jettison anything on the roadway itself but shall draw to the side of the road and safely deposit the object there.
If waste zones are established by the organiser, the rider must safely and exclusively deposit their waste on the sides of the road in this area."

They just need to enforce it.

Yes I think it can and should be done better. Taking a bottle, taking one sip and then throwing it is plain irritating to watch.

 

[rick james]

I’m sure the bottles are bio degradable

 

[Bolder]

Re:

I’m sure the bottles are bio degradable

I don't think they are, though I know such technology exists. that doesnt account for all the bidons, energy gels etc that also get junked. The solution would be simple, which is that the UCI requires races to site large, clearly marked bins every 5k or so, and fine riders/teams who don't at least make an effort to get the old bottles etc. into the bins.

But back to Ineos -- I'd never heard of them. Despite what Sky (the corporation) have said, the drip drip drip of doping must have had an effect, and the AAF probably was the last straw. As a media brand used and known by people the world over, Sky probably figured they were getting a negative rate of return on their cycling investment, at least measured by credibility and image enhancement. But I think those sorts of things are less important for a faceless company like Ineos that doesn't brand anything and primarily sells B2B.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

I’m sure the bottles are bio degradable

I don't think they are, though I know such technology exists. that doesnt account for all the bidons, energy gels etc that also get junked. The solution would be simple, which is that the UCI requires races to site large, clearly marked bins every 5k or so, and fine riders/teams who don't at least make an effort to get the old bottles etc. into the bins.

When the Giro went past in 2012, I got my hands on a few bottles. They were all labelled as biodegradable, though, I didn't test whether it was true.

 

[Koronin]

I don't have a problem with riders tossing bottles in the general direction of where fans are. Same goes for discarded musett bags and clothing if they discarding it instead of taking it back to the team car. More riders seem to take clothing back to the team car than discard it.
At the worlds after the race was over a few of the teams still had bags of food left and were handing those bags of what they had left out to fans who happened to be in the area. We got some rice cakes and apple pastries from the Spanish team. Rice cakes were ok, but the apple pastries are still some of the best we've ever had.

 

[CTQ]

Re: Re:

I’m sure the bottles are bio degradable

I don't think they are, though I know such technology exists. that doesnt account for all the bidons, energy gels etc that also get junked. The solution would be simple, which is that the UCI requires races to site large, clearly marked bins every 5k or so, and fine riders/teams who don't at least make an effort to get the old bottles etc. into the bins.

When the Giro went past in 2012, I got my hands on a few bottles. They were all labelled as biodegradable, though, I didn't test whether it was true.

recyclable, here the supplier for some teams including Team Sky https://www.elite-it.com/en/products/water-bottles/racing/fly-teams-750ml

 

[wouterkaas]

Re: Re:

I’m sure the bottles are bio degradable

I don't think they are, though I know such technology exists. that doesnt account for all the bidons, energy gels etc that also get junked. The solution would be simple, which is that the UCI requires races to site large, clearly marked bins every 5k or so, and fine riders/teams who don't at least make an effort to get the old bottles etc. into the bins.

When the Giro went past in 2012, I got my hands on a few bottles. They were all labelled as biodegradable, though, I didn't test whether it was true.

recyclable, here the supplier for some teams including Team Sky https://www.elite-it.com/en/products/water-bottles/racing/fly-teams-750ml

Before the Fly bottles they used the Corsa bottles, which were indeed said to be biodegradable. I guess developing a bottle as light as the Fly bottle and biodegrable is a bridge top far at this moment. Hope it comes soon anyway.

 

[tobydawq]

The two bottles I still have are ELITE bottles. They both say 100% biodegradable.

 

[CTQ]

Re:

The two bottles I still have are ELITE bottles. They both say 100% biodegradable.

they still have 100% biodégradable in the Corsa section https://www.elite-it.com/en/products/water-bottles/racing/maxi-corsa-950ml

 

[Koronin]

Granted different team, but my Movistar water bottle (purchased from their website) says biodegradable on it. Interestingly enough it's the only water bottle we have that says biodegradable. Most of them are recyclable.