Team Ineos Discussion thread

[pastronef]

Re:

December 2016 issue of INEOS's Inch magazine on ... Team Sky!
https://www.ineos.com/inch-magazine/articles/issue-11/man-and-machine-in-perfect-harmony/

on Froome's Dogma F8 because ...

What made this bike so incredibly light, yet strong, was Pinarello’s decision to use Toray’s new T11001K Dream Carbon with Nanoalloy Technology.

INEOS, as the company which supplies Toray with acrylonitrile, the core ingredient needed to make carbon fibre, was also watching with interest.

yes, in my or your bike, there could be INEOS stuff

 

[Lequack]

Britain's richest man, Jim Ratcliffe, has announced £1bn worth of investments in the UK oil and chemical industries.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47376169

With these huge numbers, buying Sky seems like a small side-deal for them.
I am guessing they won't be wearing the "save the oceans" whale shirts anytime soon again.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Britain's richest man, Jim Ratcliffe, has announced £1bn worth of investments in the UK oil and chemical industries.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47376169

With these huge numbers, buying Sky seems like a small side-deal for them.
I am guessing they won't be wearing the "save the oceans" whale shirts anytime soon again.

and do you know why they won´t be wearing the Ocean-Rescue jerseys?

because Ocean-Rescue campaign is owned and promoted by SKY.
SKY leaves and the team moves to INEOS so the team does not promote SKY stuff anymore.
easy

 

[OldCranky]

Re:

Sky with an even bigger budget. Great...

Well, everybody wanted Sky out of cycling...

I have to say this is as good an example of 'be careful what you wish for' as you're ever likely to see. Talk of the budget being increased by £5m a year and unlike Sky's convoluted corporate structure Ratcliffe is Ineo's majority shareholder, in addition to having a personal net worth of over £20bn.

So yeah, that worked out well :lol:

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Sky with an even bigger budget. Great...

Well, everybody wanted Sky out of cycling...

I have to say this is as good an example of 'be careful what you wish for' as you're ever likely to see. Talk of the budget being increased by £5m a year and unlike Sky's convoluted corporate structure Ratcliffe is Ineo's majority shareholder, in addition to having a personal net worth of over £20bn.

So yeah, that worked out well :lol:

When do the current contracts of the Yates brothers finish up?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Sky with an even bigger budget. Great...

Well, everybody wanted Sky out of cycling...

I have to say this is as good an example of 'be careful what you wish for' as you're ever likely to see. Talk of the budget being increased by £5m a year and unlike Sky's convoluted corporate structure Ratcliffe is Ineo's majority shareholder, in addition to having a personal net worth of over £20bn.

So yeah, that worked out well :lol:

It's not so much Sky, but the huge budget that gives them a very unfair advantage.

There are two ways that the UCI could do something to help alleviate that a little for the other teams. The two ideas would go in two opposite directions.

Option one is simpler. A straight budget cap. A hard cap or a soft cap. Hard cap is you flat out can't spend over a certain amount. A soft cap allows you to spend over the cap, but then fines you and that money is then given to the lower budget teams.

Option 2. The UCI eliminates the 1 Kit and 1 Special kit rules. Thus allowing teams to sell sponsorship for specific races. Say a business wants to have their name as full or partial sponsor for just the Tour of California. This way they could do that and either replace the title sponsor for a race OR have their name added to the kit for that specific race. This could happen for bigger or smaller races as well. A local business in Murcia wants a little more name recognition. They could sponsor a team for just their race. A company in the Ardennes wants their name know a better, they could have their name added to a team's kit for just that group of races. This is something that has been going on for several years now in NASCAR and could work for cycling as a way for teams to get additional sponsorship for specific races. It would allow smaller companies to get their name into the sport at a cost they can afford as well.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

Sky with an even bigger budget. Great...

In the other news, baseball player Mike Trout just signed a new contract with LA Angels worth $430 million.

That is one player worth more than the entire pro peloton combined...

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Sky with an even bigger budget. Great...

In the other news, baseball player Mike Trout just signed a new contract with LA Angels worth $430 million.

That is one player worth more than the entire pro peloton combined...

Just saw that and am just shaking my head over that.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

In the other news, baseball player Mike Trout just signed a new contract with LA Angels worth $430 million.

That is one player worth more than the entire pro peloton combined...

...12 years.

 

[Robert5091]

https://friendsoftheearth.uk/climate-change/taking-over-team-sky-blatant-attempt-greenwashing-ineos

Taking over Team Sky is a blatant attempt at greenwashing by Ineos

“Cycling is one the UK’s most successful and popular sports, but do the likes of Geraint Thomas and Chris Froome really want to be associated with a planet-wrecking company like Ineos?”

FoE not up, it seems, on pro-cycling

 

[Jagartrott]

Re:

That's not Monaco's flag, is it?

 

[jarvo]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I feel this whole debate on budgets and parity seems very much influenced by the fact that people do not like a new team was set up with very deep pockets and have bossed the TdF for the past 5-6 years.

Professional sport is all about the have's and have-nots. Football you have the Real Madrid's, Man City's etc. F1 you have the Mercedes and Ferrari's that outspend their competitors

Having a huge budget does not guarantee success, you have to be a well run organisation who recruit correctly.

Katusha had a very large budget for a few years as did BMC but they did not have the same success as Sky so nobody moaned about their spending

If Sky had a 15-20m budget they could still boss the TdF if they wanted, they could recruit 8 guys whose sole objective of the year was the TdF. Budget does not change Sky's devotion to winning and setting up there whole season around the TdF

 

[spalco]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I don't get the vibe that Quickstep is particularly popular in this forum, although a bunch of their riders are. More of a grudging acceptance of their strength and tactics than fandom imo.

 

[jarvo]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I don't get the vibe that Quickstep is particularly popular in this forum, although a bunch of their riders are. More of a grudging acceptance of their strength and tactics than fandom imo.

Ok pick another team then.

Let's say Movistar, had a 50m budget

they have Valverde, Quintana and Landa as leaders promising riders such as Soler

if they signed a bunch of domestiques, got fancy buses and bossed the GT's for 4-5 years would people be up in arms? probably not to the same degree as they are now over Sky

 

[ghlambert]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I don't get the vibe that Quickstep is particularly popular in this forum, although a bunch of their riders are. More of a grudging acceptance of their strength and tactics than fandom imo.

Ok pick another team then.

Let's say Movistar, had a 50m budget

they have Valverde, Quintana and Landa as leaders promising riders such as Soler

if they signed a bunch of domestiques, got fancy buses and bossed the GT's for 4-5 years would people be up in arms? probably not to the same degree as they are now over Sky

Movistar can easily have a stronger line up than Sky if they want. Imagine a line up of Valverde, Quintana, Landa, Carapaz, Soler, Anacona, Amador and Bennati or Rojas. Somehow they aren't able to bring all these riders together for the same goal.

 

[Laplaz]

The new trikots will be black and red, Sunweb will be happy

 

[jarvo]

Re:

The new trikots will be black and red, Sunweb will be happy

https://www.ineos.com/brand-guidelines/

Ineos brand guidelines suggest White, blue, grey and orange

 

[Lequack]

Now they get all the GC riders into one team. Both Yates, Dumoulin, Roglic, Nibali, etc. Just everyone riding merrily for the new Sky.
That reminds me, is there a cap on how many riders a WT team can have? Or how many staff?

 

[Tim Booth]

Re: Re:

The new trikots will be black and red, Sunweb will be happy

https://www.ineos.com/brand-guidelines/

Ineos brand guidelines suggest White, blue, grey and orange

well, not quite what their Americas Cup boat looks like
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=america's+cup+ineos&safe=strict&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zCMmxcoWBXEkgM%253A%252CKL0nJCgMo4WFEM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRYgMgp6qyeKz39b7y815T5p8vh8Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1-u2fyJDhAhVIShUIHd2nB9UQ9QEwE3oECAkQBg&cshid=1553079725020946#imgrc=_&vet=1

 

[jarvo]

Re: Re:

The new trikots will be black and red, Sunweb will be happy

https://www.ineos.com/brand-guidelines/

Ineos brand guidelines suggest White, blue, grey and orange

well, not quite what their Americas Cup boat looks like
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=america's+cup+ineos&safe=strict&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zCMmxcoWBXEkgM%253A%252CKL0nJCgMo4WFEM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRYgMgp6qyeKz39b7y815T5p8vh8Q&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1-u2fyJDhAhVIShUIHd2nB9UQ9QEwE3oECAkQBg&cshid=1553079725020946#imgrc=_&vet=1

good to see they don't follow their own brand guidelines, although I suppose if they are INEOS owned or just sponsored? probably has an influence

 

[yaco]

What is the origin of the Yates to join Sky ? You can never say never but it's highly doubtful the Yates would join Sky - They've been well developed at Mitchelton Scott, they are both team leaders for the near future and more importantly they keep under the radar riding for a Non-British team.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

In the other news, baseball player Mike Trout just signed a new contract with LA Angels worth $430 million.

That is one player worth more than the entire pro peloton combined...

...12 years.

Still, his new contract is worth more than the entire 2019 WT teams budget combined and he will make more every year than for example the entire QuickStep team.

While I'm not exactly NFL, NBA, NHL fan, the revenue sharing, and salary caps are what makes those leagues so attractive.

In cycling, there is no revenue sharing, (ASO keeps 90%) and most teams are dependent on a single sponsor. Therefore, huge differences in team budgets and most teams just can't compete with one super wealthy team.

What a concept

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Britain's richest man, Jim Ratcliffe, has announced £1bn worth of investments in the UK oil and chemical industries.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47376169

With these huge numbers, buying Sky seems like a small side-deal for them.
I am guessing they won't be wearing the "save the oceans" whale shirts anytime soon again.

and do you know why they won´t be wearing the Ocean-Rescue jerseys?

Because it would be hypocritical?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/ineos-arrival-casts-environmental-cloud-over-team-sky/

 

[Angliru]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I feel this whole debate on budgets and parity seems very much influenced by the fact that people do not like a new team was set up with very deep pockets and have bossed the TdF for the past 5-6 years.

Professional sport is all about the have's and have-nots. Football you have the Real Madrid's, Man City's etc. F1 you have the Mercedes and Ferrari's that outspend their competitors

Having a huge budget does not guarantee success, you have to be a well run organisation who recruit correctly.

Katusha had a very large budget for a few years as did BMC but they did not have the same success as Sky so nobody moaned about their spending

If Sky had a 15-20m budget they could still boss the TdF if they wanted, they could recruit 8 guys whose sole objective of the year was the TdF. Budget does not change Sky's devotion to winning and setting up there whole season around the TdF

Let them have their huge budget but put a limit on what a teams overall rider salary can be. At least that way it may limit a few teams from having such an abundance of talent and consequently spread the talent out more evenly making the events more competitive, less predictable and more entertaining for the fans. Seems this would be what is best for the sport overall.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

If Quickstep suddenly had a 50m budget, would everyone be up in arms? Or if Total who are taking over naming of Direct Energie suddenly had a 80m budget next year?

I feel this whole debate on budgets and parity seems very much influenced by the fact that people do not like a new team was set up with very deep pockets and have bossed the TdF for the past 5-6 years.

Professional sport is all about the have's and have-nots. Football you have the Real Madrid's, Man City's etc. F1 you have the Mercedes and Ferrari's that outspend their competitors

Having a huge budget does not guarantee success, you have to be a well run organisation who recruit correctly.

Katusha had a very large budget for a few years as did BMC but they did not have the same success as Sky so nobody moaned about their spending

If Sky had a 15-20m budget they could still boss the TdF if they wanted, they could recruit 8 guys whose sole objective of the year was the TdF. Budget does not change Sky's devotion to winning and setting up there whole season around the TdF

Quickstep, while not without it's own controversies and drama, aren't on the same level that Sky is on in that regard. I won't go into all the promises that they made (that they didn't keep) to make themselves seem like the saviours of the sport but the attention and feedback that they receive is a result of their own media machine drowning the fans in never ending news about every minute detail of their daily lives.