Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Oliwright]

Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Konig was a good domestique last year, Kwiat is on 2 million a year. He's on of the most famous and capable riders who will go to the tour. End of. Roche did *** all at the tour last year, as he was too weak on the climbs. Nieve will be too tired from the Giro, hence why he didn't go last year.

 

[Oliwright]

Re: Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Agreed, when Sky went on Pure ability they end up with 2011 team which kinda sucked, when they've gone for pure composition and team moral they end up with that horrendus 2014 team they've got it just right in 2013 and 2015

that wont happen. Every rider wants to go to the tour! When they signed for Sky the all know they would ride in support of Froome at the Tour. Only exception to this is Brad, who obviously wasn't up for riding for froome. Sky have enough riders so that Nieve, Roche and Kiri won't go.

 

[Oliwright]

Re: Re:

I don't think Henao will be cleared in time. Also, I don't think they need Intxuasti and Kwiatkowski had been a little underwhelming this year but he'll make the team because of his name.
1. Froome
2. Landa
3. Thomas
4. Poels
5. Kwiatkowski
6. Roche - road captain
7. Kiryienka
8. Stananrd
9. Rowe
I would have choose one of Nieve/Intxausti/Konig(if fit)/Henao(if cleared) instead of Kwiatkowski.
Kiry, Stannard and Rowe are enough for flat.
Landa can tear every mountain stage apart all by himself. Still, Poels is a very good mountain domestique. Thomas is a their joker. He can ride on flats, hills and mountains. Heck, he can even go for GC by himself.[/quote]

Sky have enough experience without Roche, who was below par at the Tour last year. Kiri might make it, but i expect them to take a rider like Puccio. There are a lot better riders than roche.

Konig is a better rider than Nieve and intxausti so if in form he will go. He's had 3 top tens in the GTs over the last 3 years.

 

[Oliwright]

Re: Re:

Nieve could stilo grab Sky a jersey at the Giro.

May be the mountains classification, unless he's too far behind already but would have thought if he does well tomorrow and remaining mountain stages he could win it despite deficit.

He's fourth 35 points behind, he's well in the hunt

Yes he could, but Nieve isn't that consistent. We will see after today.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I dont agree that Konig is a better rider than Nieve. Nieve is a slightly better climber than Konig when they are in similar shape which is all Konig will be used for anyways, altho Konig obviously is a better allrounder, but they seem to have enough for that. And there is not TTT.

What a magical stage win by Nieve yesterday. He is such a nice guy.

 

[Oliwright]

Re:

I dont agree that Konig is a better rider than Nieve. Nieve is a slightly better climber than Konig when they are in similar shape which is all Konig will be used for anyways, altho Konig obviously is a better allrounder, but they seem to have enough for that. And there is not TTT.

What a magical stage win by Nieve yesterday. He is such a nice guy.

If you watched the 2015 giro, you would know that Konig was clearly better than Nieve the last time they raced together.

 

[trevim]

So happy to see Nieve so great in the Dolomites again. He's one of my favourite riders and today it was a great stage from him considering that he was in the breakaway yesterday. He's perfectly suited to these italian monster climbs and I really hope he can take another stage win somewhere

Knees and Lopez also deserve a chance for a break, it would be so cool to see such hard core domestiques winning a Giro stage. Boswell should find the Alps to his liking as well.

Henao will have a good support in Nieve on his fight for the white jersey.

 

[pastronef]

Re:

So happy to see Nieve so great in the Dolomites again. He's one of my favourite riders and today it was a great stage from him considering that he was in the breakaway yesterday. He's perfectly suited to these italian monster climbs and I really hope he can take another stage win somewhere

Knees and Lopez also deserve a chance for a break, it would be so cool to see such hard core domestiques winning a Giro stage. Boswell should find the Alps to his liking as well.

Henao will have a good support in Nieve on his fight for the white jersey.

yep! 11 minutes to Jungels. it´s still doable! go Seb!

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Konig was a good domestique last year, Kwiat is on 2 million a year. He's on of the most famous and capable riders who will go to the tour. End of. Roche did **** all at the tour last year, as he was too weak on the climbs. Nieve will be too tired from the Giro, hence why he didn't go last year.

Were you actually watching the Tour last year..After being told to put on weight by SKY because of sickness at Dauphine when trying ot get skinny Roche rode a fantastic tour as a domestique on the flats and the hills...he was not there to ride the mountains..I guess you can't see how a team or race works Roche was instrumental in creating the split in the crosswinds, (and then crashed)
He was the only one with Froome& Thomas the day of the cobbles..and rode at the front between sections to position them both, when Stannard & Rowe were no where to be seen. also on the TTT he put in a massive turn at the beginning but still hung in when Stannard, Rowe, Poles & Kennaugh blew but got unfair and ignorant stick
. he saved them that day not the opposite

Konig was brought to the tour as a climber to help Foorme ...he was no where to be seen in the mountains...or any stage (except TTT) ..in fact his domestic ability at the Tour was pants. Can you tell me one stage he was there with Froome & Thomas at the Tour on a mountain stages last year. what gaps he closed or when he as less than 6th man on the train ...Roche was 10 times more effective than Konig

I don't care how much money Kwait is on...that hardly makes him a top domestique...you logic is simple and based on ill informed ideas... Kwait could be great at the Tour but on the otherhand he could as he was last year no where to be seen

I think SKY have enough riders to chose from and I dont care who goes as it will be a strong team anyway but I would bring the more dependable doms and that is Kiry. Roche, Nieve .
Not Konig, Kennaugh or Kwait

If you can't see that fine but don't call the contribution of riders rubbish when it was far from that

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

I dont agree that Konig is a better rider than Nieve. Nieve is a slightly better climber than Konig when they are in similar shape which is all Konig will be used for anyways, altho Konig obviously is a better allrounder, but they seem to have enough for that. And there is not TTT.

What a magical stage win by Nieve yesterday. He is such a nice guy.

If you watched the 2015 giro, you would know that Konig was clearly better than Nieve the last time they raced together.

Nieve is a better climber than Konig but Konig is a top TTer and can climb but not as good as Nieve

Nieve form was not great at the 2015 Giro but there is no doubting his is atop climber..Mount Ventoux 2013 tells you all you need to know about what kind of a climber he is

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Konig was a good domestique last year, Kwiat is on 2 million a year. He's on of the most famous and capable riders who will go to the tour. End of. Roche did **** all at the tour last year, as he was too weak on the climbs. Nieve will be too tired from the Giro, hence why he didn't go last year.

Were you actually watching the Tour last year..After being told to put on weight by SKY because of sickness at Dauphine when trying ot get skinny Roche rode a fantastic tour as a domestique on the flats and the hills...he was not there to ride the mountains..I guess you can't see how a team or race works Roche was instrumental in creating the split in the crosswinds, (and then crashed)
He was the only one with Froome& Thomas the day of the cobbles..and rode at the front between sections to position them both, when Stannard & Rowe were no where to be seen. also on the TTT he put in a massive turn at the beginning but still hung in when Stannard, Rowe, Poles & Kennaugh blew but got unfair and ignorant stick
. he saved them that day not the opposite

Konig was brought to the tour as a climber to help Foorme ...he was no where to be seen in the mountains...or any stage (except TTT) ..in fact his domestic ability at the Tour was pants. Can you tell me one stage he was there with Froome & Thomas at the Tour on a mountain stages last year. what gaps he closed or when he as less than 6th man on the train ...Roche was 10 times more effective than Konig

I don't care how much money Kwait is on...that hardly makes him a top domestique...you logic is simple and based on ill informed ideas... Kwait could be great at the Tour but on the otherhand he could as he was last year no where to be seen

I think SKY have enough riders to chose from and I dont care who goes as it will be a strong team anyway but I would bring the more dependable doms and that is Kiry. Roche, Nieve .
Not Konig, Kennaugh or Kwait

If you can't see that fine but don't call the contribution of riders rubbish when it was far from that

Were you actually watching the Tour last year. König maybe was brought there as a climber, maybe not, but what we know is that everyone who had Giro in legs was totally spent, except for Contador. Anyway König did lot of work on the flat and I think in medium mountains too, but on the flat a lot.
Roche was supposed to be there in medium mountains but was nowhere.

 

[Kokoso]

König climbed quite well at Vuelta stage he won, he was better then Pinot there. Stage 13 of Tour 2014 was good showing in the mountains, too. Majka had great shape at that Tour yet König finished with him.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Konig was a good domestique last year, Kwiat is on 2 million a year. He's on of the most famous and capable riders who will go to the tour. End of. Roche did **** all at the tour last year, as he was too weak on the climbs. Nieve will be too tired from the Giro, hence why he didn't go last year.

Were you actually watching the Tour last year..After being told to put on weight by SKY because of sickness at Dauphine when trying ot get skinny Roche rode a fantastic tour as a domestique on the flats and the hills...he was not there to ride the mountains..I guess you can't see how a team or race works Roche was instrumental in creating the split in the crosswinds, (and then crashed)
He was the only one with Froome& Thomas the day of the cobbles..and rode at the front between sections to position them both, when Stannard & Rowe were no where to be seen. also on the TTT he put in a massive turn at the beginning but still hung in when Stannard, Rowe, Poles & Kennaugh blew but got unfair and ignorant stick
. he saved them that day not the opposite

Konig was brought to the tour as a climber to help Foorme ...he was no where to be seen in the mountains...or any stage (except TTT) ..in fact his domestic ability at the Tour was pants. Can you tell me one stage he was there with Froome & Thomas at the Tour on a mountain stages last year. what gaps he closed or when he as less than 6th man on the train ...Roche was 10 times more effective than Konig

I don't care how much money Kwait is on...that hardly makes him a top domestique...you logic is simple and based on ill informed ideas... Kwait could be great at the Tour but on the otherhand he could as he was last year no where to be seen

I think SKY have enough riders to chose from and I dont care who goes as it will be a strong team anyway but I would bring the more dependable doms and that is Kiry. Roche, Nieve .
Not Konig, Kennaugh or Kwait

If you can't see that fine but don't call the contribution of riders rubbish when it was far from that

Were you actually watching the Tour last year. König maybe was brought there as a climber, maybe not, but what we know is that everyone who had Giro in legs was totally spent, except for Contador. Anyway König did lot of work on the flat and I think in medium mountains too, but on the flat a lot.
Roche was supposed to be there in medium mountains but was nowhere.

As I asked Konig did exactly what?? Can you tell me where on the moutains he contributed or anywhere beyond the TTT ...And he was not brought to ride flat there are better riders at SKY for that .Konig was THERE to ride the mountains. Why Konig was pants is not the issue ...the issue is he was. In fact I know no time last year when Konig did any domestique duties for anyone ....
Nicolas Roche did everything I said above ...and to say he was there fro medium mountains is rich given you say its ok for Konig to ride flat when Konig was there for mountains ...insane argument
There is no point in arguing with you as you are obsessive about Konig and cannot see the reality of the issue

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

When people pick SKY teams they tend to pick on ability only ...but the composition of the team is more important..No point having 7 climbers when the race can be lost before any mountain or no point bringing riders who may have ability but are not good domestiques..For that reason I would bring Nieve & Roche before Konig & Kwait

I'd bring Kiry any day for the same reasons

Konig was a good domestique last year, Kwiat is on 2 million a year. He's on of the most famous and capable riders who will go to the tour. End of. Roche did **** all at the tour last year, as he was too weak on the climbs. Nieve will be too tired from the Giro, hence why he didn't go last year.

Were you actually watching the Tour last year..After being told to put on weight by SKY because of sickness at Dauphine when trying ot get skinny Roche rode a fantastic tour as a domestique on the flats and the hills...he was not there to ride the mountains..I guess you can't see how a team or race works Roche was instrumental in creating the split in the crosswinds, (and then crashed)
He was the only one with Froome& Thomas the day of the cobbles..and rode at the front between sections to position them both, when Stannard & Rowe were no where to be seen. also on the TTT he put in a massive turn at the beginning but still hung in when Stannard, Rowe, Poles & Kennaugh blew but got unfair and ignorant stick
. he saved them that day not the opposite

Konig was brought to the tour as a climber to help Foorme ...he was no where to be seen in the mountains...or any stage (except TTT) ..in fact his domestic ability at the Tour was pants. Can you tell me one stage he was there with Froome & Thomas at the Tour on a mountain stages last year. what gaps he closed or when he as less than 6th man on the train ...Roche was 10 times more effective than Konig

I don't care how much money Kwait is on...that hardly makes him a top domestique...you logic is simple and based on ill informed ideas... Kwait could be great at the Tour but on the otherhand he could as he was last year no where to be seen

I think SKY have enough riders to chose from and I dont care who goes as it will be a strong team anyway but I would bring the more dependable doms and that is Kiry. Roche, Nieve .
Not Konig, Kennaugh or Kwait

If you can't see that fine but don't call the contribution of riders rubbish when it was far from that

Were you actually watching the Tour last year. König maybe was brought there as a climber, maybe not, but what we know is that everyone who had Giro in legs was totally spent, except for Contador. Anyway König did lot of work on the flat and I think in medium mountains too, but on the flat a lot.
Roche was supposed to be there in medium mountains but was nowhere.

As I asked Konig did exactly what?? Can you tell me where on the moutains he contributed or anywhere beyond the TTT ...And he was not brought to ride flat there are better riders at SKY for that .Konig was THERE to ride the mountains. Why Konig was pants is not the issue ...the issue is he was. In fact I know no time last year when Konig did any domestique duties for anyone ....
Nicolas Roche did everything I said above ...and to say he was there fro medium mountains is rich given you say its ok for Konig to ride flat when Konig was there for mountains ...insane argument
There is no point in arguing with you as you are obsessive about Konig and cannot see the reality of the issue

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

 

[HelloDolly]

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

Ok here it is in simply tersm you can understand

Roche put on weight to work on flat, hills, cobbles, et and he delivered...he filled in everywhere necesssary
Konig was brought for mountains and he did not perform there
even you can grasp that

I have nothing against Konig I was answering the poster who said Roche was rubbish when clearly he wasn't
But as I said you are a fan boy who sees it only one way so no point in continuing this argument

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

Ok here it is in simply tersm you can understand

Roche put on weight to work on flat, hills, cobbles, et and he delivered...he filled in everywhere necesssary
Konig was brought for mountains and he did not perform there
even you can grasp that

I have nothing against Konig I was answering the poster who said Roche was rubbish when clearly he wasn't
But as I said you are a fan boy who sees it only one way so no point in continuing this argument

 

[Hgriffiths2606]

Re:

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

Ok here it is in simply tersm you can understand

Roche put on weight to work on flat, hills, cobbles, et and he delivered...he filled in everywhere necesssary
Konig was brought for mountains and he did not perform there
even you can grasp that

I have nothing against Konig I was answering the poster who said Roche was rubbish when clearly he wasn't
But as I said you are a fan boy who sees it only one way so no point in continuing this argument

Guys chill out this is getting too heated, König was there to do the job for the first few climbs of the day and the medium mountains and he did that well

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

Ok here it is in simply tersm you can understand

Roche put on weight to work on flat, hills, cobbles, et and he delivered...he filled in everywhere necesssary
Konig was brought for mountains and he did not perform there
even you can grasp that

I have nothing against Konig I was answering the poster who said Roche was rubbish when clearly he wasn't
But as I said you are a fan boy who sees it only one way so no point in continuing this argument

Guys chill out this is getting too heated, König was there to do the job for the first few climbs of the day and the medium mountains and he did that well

How is it getting y=too heated...I am making a valid point ...that isi all ...if you cannot make a point without being told to calm down then what si the point of a forum discussion

Can you tell me where on the medium mountains on which stages Konig rode well in the Tour as a domestique ...I would like some evidence of your claim...And likewise where Roche was so rubbish incomparison as a domestique.

It seems one can say whatever they like on here but are not open to being challenged on it

ordinarily I would let this go but there re some people on these forums with so little knowledge and so many biased views that they deserve to be challenged

Time and time again there is selective memory , bandwagon jumping , unparalleled bias and fanboyism that makes a mocjery of the whole idea of debate

 

[Hgriffiths2606]

Re: Re:

So you argumenting Roche did good work on the flat and cobbles when he was there for medium mountains is ok but me saying that König did good work on the flat when he was there for the mountains is insane
Anyway I do remember König doing some work at the beginning of the mountains, anyway.

Ok here it is in simply tersm you can understand

Roche put on weight to work on flat, hills, cobbles, et and he delivered...he filled in everywhere necesssary
Konig was brought for mountains and he did not perform there
even you can grasp that

I have nothing against Konig I was answering the poster who said Roche was rubbish when clearly he wasn't
But as I said you are a fan boy who sees it only one way so no point in continuing this argument

Guys chill out this is getting too heated, König was there to do the job for the first few climbs of the day and the medium mountains and he did that well

How is it getting y=too heated...I am making a valid point ...that isi all ...if you cannot make a point without being told to calm down then what si the point of a forum discussion

Can you tell me where on the medium mountains on which stages Konig rode well in the Tour as a domestique ...I would like some evidence of your claim...And likewise where Roche was so rubbish incomparison as a domestique.

It seems one can say whatever they like on here but are not open to being challenged on it

ordinarily I would let this go but there re some people on these forums with so little knowledge and so many biased views that they deserve to be challenged

Time and time again there is selective memory , bandwagon jumping , unparalleled bias and fanboyism that makes a mocjery of the whole idea of debate

http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Chris+Froome+Leopold+Konig+Le+Tour+de+France+gXehTYzxFhpl.jpg

Isn't that a very select group he found himself in and most of his contributions were made in the early mountain ie not on TV Thomas said that he was an absolute beast on the early climbs on the Alpe d'huez stage

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

How is it getting y=too heated...I am making a valid point ...that isi all ...if you cannot make a point without being told to calm down then what si the point of a forum discussion

Can you tell me where on the medium mountains on which stages Konig rode well in the Tour as a domestique ...I would like some evidence of your claim...And likewise where Roche was so rubbish incomparison as a domestique.

It seems one can say whatever they like on here but are not open to being challenged on it

ordinarily I would let this go but there re some people on these forums with so little knowledge and so many biased views that they deserve to be challenged

Time and time again there is selective memory , bandwagon jumping , unparalleled bias and fanboyism that makes a mocjery of the whole idea of debate

Except for Oliwright page before nobody said Roche was rubbish yet still you bring in that idea again and again. Make out what you want of it.
I think you being told to calm down isn't because of your point, but because you are fast to use words like insane, obssesive and so on. You want debate so make debate.
P.S. and when asking for evidence shouldn't you bring some at first place? Hgriffiths is only one who brought some so far.

 

[Hgriffiths2606]

Re: Re:

How is it getting y=too heated...I am making a valid point ...that isi all ...if you cannot make a point without being told to calm down then what si the point of a forum discussion

Can you tell me where on the medium mountains on which stages Konig rode well in the Tour as a domestique ...I would like some evidence of your claim...And likewise where Roche was so rubbish incomparison as a domestique.

It seems one can say whatever they like on here but are not open to being challenged on it

ordinarily I would let this go but there re some people on these forums with so little knowledge and so many biased views that they deserve to be challenged

Time and time again there is selective memory , bandwagon jumping , unparalleled bias and fanboyism that makes a mocjery of the whole idea of debate

Except for Oliwright page before nobody said Roche was rubbish yet still you bring in that idea again and again. Make out what you want of it.
I think you being told to calm down isn't because of your point, but because you are fast to use words like insane, obssesive and so on. You want debate so make debate.
P.S. and when asking for evidence shouldn't you bring some at first place? Hgriffiths is only one who brought some so far.

Thankfully someone has summed up this whole debate sensibly

 

[HelloDolly]

One picture of Konig at front of the peloton is evidence ..ha ha ha ha ha ...don't make me laugh ..
And I bet if I asked Thomas bout Kennaugh's contribution at the Tour he'd say it was great ..and it wasn't just like Konig .Thay are friends and teammates ...what else would you expect him to say when asked by the press

AS i said no evidence of Konig contribution in the mountains as was his designated role (not the flat or anywhere else which is conveniently ignored to suit an agenda)

And abit rich to be told to calm down from a poster who constantly posts biased posts about Konig & Kreuziger
and by another who thinks he makes sense .ha ha ha ha ..(not omitting the fact that other posters use far more inflammatory language are not told to calm down). It a method to shift the debate away from the facts and on to a personal agenda

No point in continuing this as it is as I said not debate

 

[Hgriffiths2606]

Re:

One picture of Konig at front of the peloton is evidence ..ha ha ha ha ha ...don't make me laugh ..
And I bet if I asked Thomas bout Kennaugh's contribution at the Tour he'd say it was great ..and it wasn't just like Konig .Thay are friends and teammates ...what else would you expect him to say when asked by the press

AS i said no evidence of Konig contribution in the mountains as was his designated role (not the flat or anywhere else which is conveniently ignored to suit an agenda)

And abit rich to be told to calm down from a poster who constantly posts biased posts about Konig & Kreuziger
and by another who thinks he makes sense .ha ha ha ha ..(not omitting the fact that other posters use far more inflammatory language are not told to calm down). It a method to shift the debate away from the facts and on to a personal agenda

No point in continuing this as it is as I said not debate

This is why you need to calm down, you're getting all aggressive and by saying 'one who thinks he makes sense' is an incredibly stupid argument, you said get ONE piece of evidence that König was up there in the mountains and I did, it wasn't a huge peloton there were about 30 riders in there and some pretty elite names, König was also the last man before Thomas and Porte on PSM, so there you go, either way after a good Giro, König was taken to control the early climbs on hilly stages not to be there in the final, I'm not biased to König, I think he's a pretty boring rider but he did well at Le tour especially considering his Giro so I now urge you to find evidence of a sub-standard performance

 

[GdaG]

Re: Re:

One picture of Konig at front of the peloton is evidence ..ha ha ha ha ha ...don't make me laugh ..
And I bet if I asked Thomas bout Kennaugh's contribution at the Tour he'd say it was great ..and it wasn't just like Konig .Thay are friends and teammates ...what else would you expect him to say when asked by the press

AS i said no evidence of Konig contribution in the mountains as was his designated role (not the flat or anywhere else which is conveniently ignored to suit an agenda)

And abit rich to be told to calm down from a poster who constantly posts biased posts about Konig & Kreuziger
and by another who thinks he makes sense .ha ha ha ha ..(not omitting the fact that other posters use far more inflammatory language are not told to calm down). It a method to shift the debate away from the facts and on to a personal agenda

No point in continuing this as it is as I said not debate

This is why you need to calm down, you're getting all aggressive and by saying 'one who thinks he makes sense' is an incredibly stupid argument, you said get ONE piece of evidence that König was up there in the mountains and I did, it wasn't a huge peloton there were about 30 riders in there and some pretty elite names, König was also the last man before Thomas and Porte on PSM, so there you go, either way after a good Giro, König was taken to control the early climbs on hilly stages not to be there in the final, I'm not biased to König, I think he's a pretty boring rider but he did well at Le tour especially considering his Giro so I now urge you to find evidence of a sub-standard performance

Poels was the last man before Thomas and Porte not Konig.

 

[Oliwright]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Considering Roche is on a large contract and finished 5th in the Vuelta in 2013, he was disappointing in the Tour. He did do some work early on but after stage 6-7 i don't remember him doing any work other than brief turns on the front. He was a bit rubbish compared to what was expected. He was signed as a super domestique and ended up providing the fetching water role.
Konig did some work in the mountains more than Roche and Kennaugh, but he was also disappointing, but he had just finished 6th in the giro.

The difference is Roche was targeting the Tour and should have been in peak shape.
Konig in peak shape finished 6th in the giro and in 2014 finished 7th in the Tour and came 2nd on many stages.
He is clearly a better rider than roche at this stage of his career.
Sky admitted to being disappointed about his form and he almost missed the Tour team last year as well.