Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[fmk_RoI]

Most everyone knows that Raymond Poulidor holds both the record for the most podium finishes in the Tour and the record for the most podium finishes without ever winning. The fact that each time he lost can be explained does not mean that we pretend this record does not exist.

A lot of people know that Alejandro Valverde is the Raymond Poulidor of the Worlds, the man who holds the record for the most podium finishes and the man who holds the record for the most podium finishes without ever winning. The fact that each time he lost can be explained does not mean that we pretend this record does not exist.

And so we come to the issue of Chris Froome's World's run (six starts, no finishes) and - regardless of whether you think you can explain why he failed to finish each of those races - surely the question is worth asking as to whether this is the record, or whether there is another rider out there who can match (or even better) Froome's World's record? Apparently we cannot and if we do ask this question we get told that six starts and no finishes is comparable to three starts and one finish. Which even a blind person can see is not the same.

 

[neineinei]

I think people forget that GB only have 15 World Tour riders. They don't have a lot of choice of riders and Froome, despite being a lousy one day rider, isn't too proud to turn up and do a domestique's job (unlike Contador for example).
And with GB tending to do too much work to early, it's hardly surprising that he DNFs.

Poland have 7 Pro Tour riders (and two of them wasn't in their line up yesterday).

This year GB didn't do much work early.
Last year Cavendish and Rowe worked a lot early, for Froome.
Polish continental and pro continetal riders working a lot early or Cavendish and Rowe working a lot early explains why those riders abandoned early. It doesn't explain why Froome abandoned early.

 

[inri2000]

You still haven't answered whether, since you see Wiggins as a tt specialist, him climbing mountains at EPO speeds and beating pure climbers like Nibali, is suspicious.

Nibali has never been a pure climber, his biggest strength was always his descending. Not saying that what Wiggins did wasn't suspicious btw.

 

[the sceptic]

"Ellingworth praises British performance at Worlds"

As for Chris Froome, Ellingworth said, “I haven’t spoken to him but I think he just didn’t have a good day. When the Italians went hard, that’s when we lost a good few.”

“But the guys rode really well together and Luke [Rowe] and Swifty said that when Pete [Kennaugh] was up the road it really helped them a lot, because it focused them on really being there.”

Ellingworth finally paid tribute to Dave Millar for his road captain’s role in his last ever race.

“He’s been great here, motivating the lads all the way through. He read the race perfectly, said the Italians would blitz things round about when they did and he’s led the riders really well.”

lol! this is the genius that has figured out how to climb faster than Lance.. or was that Kerrison.

Either way, it seems like the brits have no idea what they are doing. They are good at juicing up the Dawg to do 450 watts in a straight line, but everything else is too complicated it seems.

 

[sniper]

"Ellingworth praises British performance at Worlds"




lol! this is the genius that has figured out how to climb faster than Lance.. or was that Kerrison.

Either way, it seems like the brits have no idea what they are doing. They are good at juicing up the Dawg to do 450 watts in a straight line, but everything else is too complicated it seems.

ellingworth is one dodgy figure.
together with Sciandri responsible for GB U23 academy in Quarrata, Tuscany, where i think most of GB's youngsters learned how to dope properly.

"The academy is key to the future success of British cyclists on the professional road scene," says Rod Ellingworth, the coach behind the concept and still Cavendish's mentor. "It means that the British riders turning pro are of a certain quality. The feedback from teams who take our riders is that the British new pros aren't having to learn basics, which matters, because as pros, they are left on their own."

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/sep/20/tuscany-cycling-tour-de-france

Recall Popovych' had a house in Quarrata (it was searched, when was it, 2011?).
Popovych was in business with Ferrari at the time.
Just sayin.

 

[sniper]

Quarrata is one interesting place.
Bileka speaks:

then I moved to Societa Vellutex, where Popovych had already been for a year. Vellutex was directed by Olivano Locatelli and had two team houses, one at Carate Brianza and one at Olmi di Quarrata, and we continually moved between these two places according to where there were races. ....

I used EPO in that form according to the instructions given me by Michele Ferrari from 2007 up to spring 2008 when after a surprise drug test at my home in Quarrata I tested positive for said EPO. I believe that they could only get me that way since among the instructions given to me by Ferrari were included periods to stop taking the drug before races and thus avoid tsting positive.

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2012/10/12/3495546/volodymyr-bileka-speaks-in-english

 

[del1962]

So having a house in the same town is now proof of doping,

the clinic gift that just keeps giving

 

[MatParker117]

So having a house in the same town is now proof of doping,

the clinic gift that just keeps giving

Agreed on top of which the clinic ignores the fact that many, many journalists visited the academy.

 

[sniper]

Besides Quarrata itself, there is at least one other direct link between Italian doping in the early 2000s under Olivano Locatelli and present-day Sky:
Kanstantsin Sivtsov.

il rejoint au printemps 2004 la formation amateur italienne Palazzago dirigée par Olivano Locatelli, liée par des accords sportifs avec la Fédération Cycliste de Biélorussie.

 

[fmk_RoI]

I really don't understand how anyone can say anything against Ellingworth. This is the man who tore a page from the (race) Bible because it had a picture of Richard Virenque on it. How could you doubt that commitment to cleanliness (and hush your mouth with tales of dalliances with Max Sciandri and his love for Tom Simpson, they're British, he's allowed)?

 

[sniper]

in come the deflectobots.

 

[MatParker117]

Besides Quarrata itself, there is at least one other direct link between Italian doping in the early 2000s under Olivano Locatelli and present-day Sky:
Kanstantsin Sivtsov.

 

[del1962]

Just because I point out a complete logical fallacy I am a deflecto bot

The clinic gift that just keeps on giving

 

[sniper]

So having a house in the same town is now proof of doping,

the clinic gift that just keeps giving

in come the deflectobots.
such an obvious strawman, i didn't speak of proof.
please keep yourself on a leash for once.

Agreed on top of which the clinic ignores the fact that many, many journalists visited the academy.

and that is evidence of what exactly?

I really don't understand how anyone can say anything against Ellingworth. This is the man who tore a page from the (race) Bible because it had a picture of Richard Virenque on it. How could you doubt that commitment to cleanliness (and hush your mouth with tales of dalliances with Max Sciandri and his love for Tom Simpson, they're British, he's allowed)?

anyway, Quarrata and GB U23 is really interesting material, deserves a thread.

 

[del1962]

Sniper are you the sceptic's sockpuppet, because you both seem to use the same logical fallacies?

Regards
A deflectobot

 

[SeriousSam]

What are those logical fallacies? Point them out

 

[del1962]

You really can't see, living in same town as doper = doper etc

You their sockpuppet too?

 

[MatParker117]

in come the deflectobots.
such an obvious strawman, i didn't speak of proof.
please keep yourself on a leash for once.

and that is evidence of what exactly?



anyway, Quarrata and GB U23 is really interesting material, deserves a thread.

That if they were teaching kids to dope the last thing you do is give journalists guided tours for one.

 

[the sceptic]

You really can't see, living in same town as doper = doper etc

You their sockpuppet too?

When did I say that? Link please.

 

[del1962]

When did I say that? Link please.

Your sock-mate Sniper said it

 

[sniper]

What are those logical fallacies? Point them out

appreciate it Sam, but i'm afraid we just have to sit this one out.


so we have Michele Ferrari, Locatelli and Cecchini with direct doping links to Quarrata.
Must have been a case of 'Qual der Wahl' for Team GB.

 

[the sceptic]

Your sock-mate Sniper said it

so you were making it up then? Shocker.

Trolling as usual.

 

[sniper]

That if they were teaching kids to dope the last thing you do is give journalists guided tours for one.

what kids?
the journalist stuff means zilk as recent cycling history has shown (but feel free to ignore that).

 

[sniper]

so you were making it up then? Shocker.

Trolling as usual.

and not even subtle. he's just rubbing it in.

 

[thrawn]

That if they were teaching kids to dope the last thing you do is give journalists guided tours for one.

Well it would be incredibly stupid to give journalists a tour whilst they're injecting kids with EPO. It wouldn't be hard to hide evidence of a doping program whilst giving journalists a tour.