Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[rick james]

Tick Tock? tramadol isn't illegal

 

[ferryman]

Re:

Tick Tock? tramadol isn't illegal

I never said it was. I said it was controlled. i.e. used when needed and PRESCRIBED by a doctor. It IS illegal to buy it in the UK without a prescription. Go and ask your local pharmacist for some. Say Dave sent you and wave a wee Union Jack flag, you might get lucky..

 

[rick james]

its a union flag, not a union jack

 

[Irondan]

Re:

its a union flag, not a union jack

Is that all you got from ferryman's comment?

 

[MikeS369]

Re: Sky

It looks like Sky's great wall of silence is starting to crack. How anyone can believe what Sky are doing is a result of hard training and "marginal gains" is beyond comprehension. Then again a lot of people believed Armstrong.

I wonder when froome is going to come out with one of his statements in incredulity and call for more testing.

 

[Random Direction]

Re: Sky

It looks like Sky's great wall of silence is starting to crack. How anyone can believe what Sky are doing is a result of hard training and "marginal gains" is beyond comprehension. Then again a lot of people believed Armstrong.

I wonder when froome is going to come out with one of his statements in incredulity and call for more testing.

Which type of testing:
(a) go-forward drug testing
(b) retroactive drug testing, for new compounds
(c) go-forward motor testing (real version, not the ipad app)
(d) retroactive motor testing
(e) Common Entrance Examination for those who believe he and/or his bike are clean

 

[markene2]

Re:

Tick tock:http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/michael-barry-and-team-skys-unethical-use-of-legal-medication/

I still can't get my head around Tramadol use though. I've seen what that drug does to people (used in a controlled way) and I've no idea how anyone could function properly, let alone ride a bike after taking it. WTF were the doctors giving them and how? Cos it certainly WAS NOT the full strength pills you get after a major operation say.

As someone who has used Tramadol i dont know either, my reflexes went to *** on it. But you build up a tolerance though. But still, even though it aint prohobited i still see it as endangering to the other riders, as i said before your reflexes go to ***.

 

[goggalor]

Wow. Doctors writing scripts to let riders eat opioids during races is very very sketchy business.

Tramadol is a strong painkiller that is prescribed to treat, as wikipedia puts it, "moderate to moderately severe pain" (I was prescribed some after surgery on a broken wrist, and yes your reflexes are strongly affected, but on a 50 mg dose you are still able to ride [if you don't value your life all that much]) - they are most certainly not meant to be handed out to healthy riders to help them push through pain barriers. It may still be on right side of the antidoping regulations, but it is no less unethical than PED use. In fact it may be ethically murkier than a lot of PED use, because of how dangerous it is. Especially in combination with abuse of "sleeping pills".

 

[jens_attacks]

during the race, they take the tramadol with caffeine pills, i guess. Not alone. Maybe their reflexes aren't that bad then.

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

its a union flag, not a union jack

Is that all you got from ferryman's comment?

whats the point in spitting feathers over something that isn't illegal?


and its not only that were using tramadol

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

Why has 'Gee' gone to South Africa? Isn't Teide good enough any more?

Will we see 'Gee' smashing GW and RvV then holding his form, losing 4kg and then becoming a GC rider for the Giro?

 

[rick james]

Re: Re:

Why has 'Gee' gone to South Africa? Isn't Teide good enough any more?

Will we see 'Gee' smashing GW and RvV then holding his form, losing 4kg and then becoming a GC rider for the Giro?

aye because it done wonders for Boswell at the Giro last year :lol:

and "Gee" isn't doing any classics this year

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

Why has 'Gee' gone to South Africa? Isn't Teide good enough any more?

Will we see 'Gee' smashing GW and RvV then holding his form, losing 4kg and then becoming a GC rider for the Giro?

aye because it done wonders for Boswell at the Giro last year :lol:

and "Gee" isn't doing any classics this year

Good old 'Gee'

 

[rick james]

indeed

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

Why has 'Gee' gone to South Africa? Isn't Teide good enough any more?

Will we see 'Gee' smashing GW and RvV then holding his form, losing 4kg and then becoming a GC rider for the Giro?

Thomas, (Gee) decided to go in SA this year

he's there with Froomeey who is a local, has been racing and training there since he began riding a bike

in S.A. now there are also: Tom Dumoulin (Major Tommee) Matthews (Blingee) and Geschke (Geshckee) Caleb Ewan (Eewee) and full Orica Scott team (Orikeee)

 

[fmk_RoI]

Maybe people noticing the use of SA this season ought look at the weather...warm weather training requires one key ingredient...

 

[Benotti69]

Important to be able ride in all types of weather to perform. Also training in warm weather is not great for racing in cold weather.

SA training = doping.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Why has 'Gee' gone to South Africa? Isn't Teide good enough any more?

Will we see 'Gee' smashing GW and RvV then holding his form, losing 4kg and then becoming a GC rider for the Giro?

Thomas, (Gee) decided to go in SA this year

he's there with Froomeey who is a local, has been racing and training there since he began riding a bike

in S.A. now there are also: Tom Dumoulin (Major Tommee) Matthews (Blingee) and Geschke (Geshckee) Caleb Ewan (Eewee) and full Orica Scott team (Orikeee)

Michael Hepburn is still here in Brisbane, saw him out this morning.

 

[GraftPunk]

I have a feeling that one reason Tramadol is given out so freely is probably because it doesn't (didn't?) have the same stigma as a narcotic painkiller. I suppose that's changing, and probably should. Having been prescribed it twice after cycling crashes, I can wouldn't want to be in the peloton full-bore with someone under it's influence. That being said, it never made me drowsy, quite the opposite, but it probably affects everyone differently.

 

[The Hegelian]

Re:

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster. I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere, searching around I didn't see anything really specific to this.

I look at the riders of today, and Team Sky in particular and they're characterized by unnaturally thin physiques (at least the climbers/GC types) and these stories of rapid, dramatic weight loss without a loss of power. I know most on here will point to new generation methods like AICAR as an explanation and there's certainly evidence it has been utilized especially when it first came out.

But with all that's come out in light of the Wiggins TUE affair, I can't help but wonder if teams (or riders) aren't just using good old fashioned corticoids outside of competition to achieve the same end. Most teams spend large blocks of time away from competition on team training camps. Drugs like the now infamous Kenacort are completely legal outside competition (although totally unethical for this intended use).

So my question to you all is, is it possible these guys are disappearing off to these 2-3 week camps and going on a course of cortisone to shed the weight, before returning to competition? I'm not sure on how long it lasts in the system but it seems like no TUE would even be necessary depending on the timing. Look at Froome, you would think he would have a TUE history a mile long, but as revealed by Fancy Bears he's hardly had any his whole career.

If you look at it through this lens it backs up Sky's whole "right up to the limit of what is legal" mantra and also explains more and more teams opting out of the MPCC with its stricter rules on cortisol levels.

Again not sure how long the stuff is detectable by testing in-competition, so I could be completely off base here. I know it's kind of conspiracy-theory prone but I just can't help shake the idea when I look at some of these guys and how much physiques have changed in recent years.

Quite a plausible theory ~ I suppose the question is this: corticosterioids have been used/abused for ages, but it's only in more recent times.......pretty much since Sky came in....that the super skinny GC/climber has become the model for success.

Think about the way Michael Rogers physically transformed when riding for Sky; he was clearly on the whole smorgasbord through the 00's, but in '12 he became super skinny and started putting out his highest watts ever.....whilst sitting on the front riding tempo, pulling back every attack by talent could previously drop him like a stone.

 

[sniper]

Well put hegelian. That gets to the crux of the matter.
Corticoids and also highly effective weightloss drugs like Clenbuterol (according to some still the drug of choice for weightloss) have always been available to the cyclist.
Clearly corticoids and (illegal) TUEs is only a (small) part of the answer.
I'm still thinking aicar.
Remember Eric Boyer thought aicar, too.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Important to be able ride in all types of weather to perform. Also training in warm weather is not great for racing in cold weather.

SA training = doping.

thought that was Tenerife?

:lol:

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Important to be able ride in all types of weather to perform. Also training in warm weather is not great for racing in cold weather.

SA training = doping.

I knew the Clinic was hardcore - but OMFG, this is taking Puritanism to some new levels.

I can just see the headlines in years to come:

BELGIAN FED LAUNCHES INVESTIGATION INTO FIVE-TIME TOUR CHAMPION EDDY MERCKX AFTER FORMER TEAM-MATES CONFESS THEY TRAINED IN "WARM WEATHER LOCATIONS"!

"Everyone was doing it," said one un-named former team-mate of Merckx's, "you had to go training if you wanted to keep up, and in the winter, in Belgium, when it was snowing and pissing with rain and the wind would whip the skin from your face, that meant heading for the sun, to the Cote d'Azure or the Italian Riviera. You had no choice in the matter. It was impossible to keep up if you didn't do it. Because everyone was doing it it was a level playing field, that was the only consolation I took from it, it didn't feel like cheating knowing that."

German Tour champion Jan Ullrich had this to say: "Throughout my career I made clear that I stood firm against training, no matter where or when. But it was almost impossible to stay true to your own personal ethics. Luigi Cecchini would fax me a training plan and Rudy Pevenage would expect me to complete it, even if that meant heading down to Nice or Tenerife, where the weather was warm and it wasn't raining all the time. I resisted as much as I could but in the end it was pointless, they made me train."

Irish sprinter Sean Kelly had this to say: "In my day you could rock up for the Paris-Nice without having done any training, riders didn't need training, since the Giro di Lombardia the previous autumn you might have only touched your bike for a couple of Christmas Hamper races and the odd bit of 'cross, or maybe some six day races on the track if the money was right, or trips down to the shops to get some milk and tea and maybe some bread and some eggs. But even by the end of my career it was obvious that people had been doing warm weather training before March. The tan lines on them, sure even the fans could see it. Some of them would say 'Oh, the wife bought herself a tanning lamp and I decided to give it a try,' or they'd say they were just back from a holiday in Florida but everyone knew the truth, they'd been warm weather training."

Other former riders are expected to break their silence on the matter in the coming days.

 

[veganrob]

Sky wants to ban Tramadol but continue to prescribe it and hand out for races

http://www.itv.com/news/utv/update/2016-10-06/prescription-painkiller-claiming-more-lives-than-any-other-drug/

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

Important to be able ride in all types of weather to perform. Also training in warm weather is not great for racing in cold weather.

SA training = doping.

thought that was Tenerife?

:lol:

Training = doping
Racing = doping
Resting = doping
Recovery = doping

in Benotti's mind.


(And given the history, one can hardly fault that attitude)