Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Michael Hutchinson‏ @Doctor_Hutch 4h4 hours ago

If you were a clean Sky rider (or former rider), you'd feel very let down by all of this, because it's spreading suspicion very widely.

"If you were a clean Sky rider.." you may want to tell everyone and put some distance between the huge Kenacort supplies found in Manchester......

I await the tumbleweed that will arrive before any Sky/Ex Sky cyclists slams the use of Kenacort at Sky.

 

[Benotti69]

Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

 

[Benotti69]

Was Freeman's laptop stolen or lost in Greece?

Either way their should be a police record of it.

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

BBC Radio Five Live discussion right now: Journalist just said he understands that Wiggins has been officially questioned over this too. Was that in private or something? Who knows. Anyway apparently he just said he took Flumicil at the time but no idea what was in the jiffy bag.

UKAD apparently have spent over 1000 man hours investigating this...and as we know still not one person can clarify what was in the infamous jiffy. I think I'd like to see UKAD given more investigative power. Sporting fraud, accounting fraud, liaise with police with threat of criminal charges etc.

Wiggins was questioned by UKAD, claimed he had been treated with nebulised fluimicil, even though it's contraindicated for asthmatics

Ah, okay, cheers, I got the impression from the journo that Wiggins had been questioned by the Select Committee so was wondering how it wasn't public. Contraindicated medication sounds about right.

I'm actually a bit surprised, given the amount of preparation time they've all had, that they haven't all had a more consistent unified story. They sound like they just make the stories up with very little thought. Not a chess players amongst them I imagine.

 

[keeponrollin]

Re: Sky

The Guys on Off the Ball said earlier that it had come out that Sky had previously bought Flumicil from regular pharmacies in Europe, & thereby shot holes in their own BS story that they needed the contents of the jiffybag, because they couldn't trust Flumicil bought anywhere but in the UK.

Has anyone heard this confirmed before ?

There was no record of flumicil in the Manchester stockpile

So a British Cycling Employee (physiotherapist, Phil Burt) put something in a Jiffy-Bag, at the request of another British Cycling Employee (Dr. Richard Freeman), presumably from store of Pharmaceuticals in British Cycling HQ in Manchester, paid for by the British Tax payer, & then they got another BC employee, who although he was nominally the Womens coach, told a Parliamentary committee, he was a general dogsbody, who did whatever he was told, to take the package to France, breaking laws along the way.

At which point the BC employed Doctor, administered the contents of the mysterious package to Bradley Wiggins, (A Sky Employee).

and 4+ years later, they're all still working, & two of the participants have picked up peerages....

the abuse of taxpayers money, alone, regardless of what was in the fucking package should have been enough to get each & every one of them fired

 

[thehog]

Re:

Fully expect Freeman to claim he forgets what was in Jiffy bag and lost laptop to check his records.

Hope Freeman gets struck off, but i doubt it. Dr Bonar didn't.

But the investigation has been very weak, if at all. MPs have been the ones making ground. As usual outside forces are the ones doing the work of Anit-doping Authorities.

Sport is beyond fixing.

UKAD had little to no interest in investigating, it's only once it got to the CMS level they were forced to pretend they were doing something. You can clearly see Brailsford & co. have been running rings around UKAD for years.

 

[Random Direction]

Dauphine is June, 2011. Medical records were entered into a laptop. Data were not uploaded to Dropbox, against Sky policy. Said laptop was stolen in 2014.

We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.

Freeman is being setting up as the (free) fall guy. Sky/BC is wholly complicit in this ******.

 

[keeponrollin]

Re: Sky

Damien Collins MP up next on Off the Ball

http://www.newstalk.com/offtheball

 

[keeponrollin]

Re: Sky

Mmmm, another thing that happened in April 2014, was that Dave Brailsford resigned his position with British Cycling.

 

[DingoGuesdon]

Re:

We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.

You are expected to believe that the setup which allowed utter anihilation of opponents on the road and on track thanks to an accumulation of marginal gains was not rigorous enough to keep files on their athletes' health.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.

 

[thehog]

Re: Sky

Damian Collins, chairman of the committee, told AFP it was a damning indictment of British Cycling that Freeman had not filed the medical records correctly. “It is a big issue that in the three years between the race and his going on holiday Dr Freeman had not uploaded the records,” said Collins referring to a Dropbox other doctors could access. “This undermines the message that British Cycling and Team Sky like to put out that they are the cleanest and most ethical in the sport.

“This is a really big problem with regard to the running of the whole team and that a doctor does not file what medicines he is giving to each rider properly. It is a pretty damning indictment and we will be holding the governing body to account,” added the 43-year-old Conservative lawmaker.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/03/news/stolen-team-sky-medical-records-leave-uk-officials-skeptical_431565#cFDm7g1isTF5pivX.99

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.

You are expected to believe that the setup which allowed utter anihilation of opponents on the road and on track thanks to an accumulation of marginal gains was not rigorous enough to keep files on their athletes' health.

yup....never tested froome or even knew his weight....

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.

Didn't BC rider Callum Skinner release medical documents showing asthma as a child?

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Re: Sky

The Guys on Off the Ball said earlier that it had come out that Sky had previously bought Flumicil from regular pharmacies in Europe, & thereby shot holes in their own BS story that they needed the contents of the jiffybag, because they couldn't trust Flumicil bought anywhere but in the UK.

Has anyone heard this confirmed before ?

There was no record of flumicil in the Manchester stockpile

So a British Cycling Employee (physiotherapist, Phil Burt) put something in a Jiffy-Bag, at the request of another British Cycling Employee (Dr. Richard Freeman), presumably from store of Pharmaceuticals in British Cycling HQ in Manchester, paid for by the British Tax payer, & then they got another BC employee, who although he was nominally the Womens coach, told a Parliamentary committee, he was a general dogsbody, who did whatever he was told, to take the package to France, breaking laws along the way.

At which point the BC employed Doctor, administered the contents of the mysterious package to Bradley Wiggins, (A Sky Employee).

and 4+ years later, they're all still working, & two of the participants have picked up peerages....

the abuse of taxpayers money, alone, regardless of what was in the fucking package should have been enough to get each & every one of them fired

The large stocks of Kenalog, plus Leinders expertise with it as part of the doping regime at Rabobank, suggest that the doping goes wider than 'one bad apple'. And the fact it was held at the Manchester velodrome, HQ of BC, says it may well go beyond Sky. Sapstead was clear in her testimony that the tie up between Sky & BC was problematic, at best.

Which leaves our friend Brian Cookson in the hot seat. Still, that tax payers money that got him elected as the head of the UCI has been money well spent over the last few years, because there are those who still believe that the success of Sky/BC is more important than any wrongdoing - it's the Armstrong cancer shield all over again.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Fully expect Freeman to claim he forgets what was in Jiffy bag and lost laptop to check his records.

Hope Freeman gets struck off, but i doubt it. Dr Bonar didn't.

But the investigation has been very weak, if at all. MPs have been the ones making ground. As usual outside forces are the ones doing the work of Anit-doping Authorities.

Sport is beyond fixing.

UKAD had little to no interest in investigating, it's only once it got to the CMS level they were forced to pretend they were doing something. You can clearly see Brailsford & co. have been running rings around UKAD for years.

Totally.

It was fascinating to see how uncomfortable Sapstead seemed to be whilst having to suggest wrongdoing by Team Sky.
That UKAD still haven't checked whether Freeman went to the police when his laptop was stolen is hilarious.
Sapstead had to invoke Interpol to make it seem like they're actually doing something.

Everything in her body language suggested a deeply rooted "We shall not step on any toes" attitude at UKAD.

UKAD need a pitbull, not a lapdog, running things.

 

[heartsnotinit]

Re: Re:

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.

In the UK you can have copies of your own records under data protection law if the provider has no other provision to give them, and are able to sign away access to your records others if you choose to do so and are mentally capable.

So doctor patient confidentiality shouldn't be an issue if the patient consents.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Sky

who, who, WHO leaked the jiffy bag story ffs! I just want to know that

 

[Rollthedice]

Jiffy bags, stolen laptops and sick doctors, that's some serious marginal pains in the a**.

 

[Robert5091]

"UKAD need a pitbull, not a lapdog, running things." agree 100%

WTF was Cope's train trips from Eastbourne to Manchester and Gatwick and all points west, when he was given a car to use? Did he claim petrol expenses too? Maybe the authorities should check his deductions ...

Laptop got stolen .... yeah What next, an identical evil twin?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.

Didn't BC rider Callum Skinner release medical documents showing asthma as a child?

He did and you are entitled to view and have a copy of your medical records or parts of them if you want in the UK. Most people don't bother though.

 

[heartsnotinit]

Re:

Dauphine is June, 2011. Medical records were entered into a laptop. Data were not uploaded to Dropbox, against Sky policy. Said laptop was stolen in 2014.

We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.

Freeman is being setting up as the (free) fall guy. Sky/BC is wholly complicit in this ******.

And if it was 3+ years old, that Greek laptop thieves aren't discerning enough to skip 3+ year old models with UK keyboards.

Plenty of things with a possible paper trail or witnesses. Was it a good laptop? When was the laptop bought? Was it a BC or Sky or personal laptop? Do witnesses confirm he was using the same laptop all that time and never made backups, used a personal dropbox or emailled the documents to anyone? Were the contents encrypted? Did the other doctors encrypt their laptops? Was the laptop managed by Sky/BC IT? Were the affected riders informed their records were lost? (When? How?) Was there an insurance claim? What else was taken? Was the ICO notified of the data breach/loss? Was Freeman even authorised to take the laptop abroad on a personal trip?

 

[Irondan]

Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....

 

[keeponrollin]

Re: Sky

Oh look; storing patient Identifiable data on Dropbox isn't allowed, & not only that, & I really should have remembered; storing data on US servers, which Dropbox server are, is illegal, as storing data outside of the EU has gotten businesses in big trouble before.

http://www.uis.cam.ac.uk/initiatives/storage-strategy/dropbox-business/guidelines-on-dropbox-use

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I'm actually a bit surprised, given the amount of preparation time they've all had, that they haven't all had a more consistent unified story. They sound like they just make the stories up with very little thought. Not a chess players amongst them I imagine.

This is the same team that wasn't prepared for people looking at their 2012 Tour performance, after annihilating everybody all season and justifying it by saying "others are peaking for the Tour", and doubting it. This is the same team that flat out said they would use US Postal as an example to aspire to, and wasn't prepared for people to take that to doping innuendo. This is the same team that toasted all its puncheurs trying to lead out a sprint because they failed to spot a 1km @ 9% climb in the roadbook that is supposedly their Bible. This is the same team that honestly thought they could spin a story so blatantly false as Cope meeting Pooley clandestinely in a completely different country from where Emma was racing in a major race, that could be disproven in under 30 seconds. They've got a track record of being taken by surprise by things they really shouldn't be caught on the hop by.