Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hrotha]

are u being sarcastic netserk? it is pretty clear that clean riders can only sustain a big effort at the end of a MTF for a short time so attacking several km's out is pretty pointless. u will just get slowly reeled back and then have less left for the finish

It's only pointless when the domestiques are up to the human limits just like the people they're working for. Back in the day, when a leader went, another leader had to respond, because the domestiques couldn't do it.

 

[Parrulo]

It's only pointless when the domestiques are up to the human limits just like the people they're working for. Back in the day, when a leader went, another leader had to respond, because the domestiques couldn't do it.

what old days? didn't the sport of cycling start in july 2012?

cue in the: that's because they were on EPO excuse

cue in the: the racing in the 80's was different excuse

 

[ferryman]

maybe I missed something: who's in the leader's jersey at T-A?

You haven't missed anything and you know it. If you want to keep coming on here and defending the indefensible good for you but cut out the baiting.

 

[Parrot23]

Regardless of the reason, seems like the TdF is going to be even more boring than last year.

I'm still wondering about how many idiots read CN.

The idiots here voted the Tour de France the best grand tour last year (that, after the Vuelta).

ROFLMAO

 

[ferryman]

more like it's pretty clear you never watched cycling pre july 2012

I think this most probably correct. Why is it that all of these Sky fan boy apologists all seem to be cut from the same cloth.

 

[thehog]

I think this most probably correct. Why is it that all of these Sky fan boy apologists all seem to be cut from the same cloth.

I think Wiggins will win the Giro.

Froome will be unbeatable. Be interested to see what his ITT is like. If he has got stronger. But he looks better than last year. Froome cannot lose the Tour.

I'd use Porte for the Vuetla but he might end up riding the Giro and Tour.

 

[roundabout]

It's only pointless when the domestiques are up to the human limits just like the people they're working for. Back in the day, when a leader went, another leader had to respond, because the domestiques couldn't do it.

Were those domestiques who couldn't respond GT top-10 caliber riders themselves?

 

[hrotha]

Were those domestiques who couldn't respond GT top-10 caliber riders themselves?

They often were, yes.

Still, that applies to Urán or Henao. It should hardly apply to Rogers, Porte, David López (or Wiggins and Froome, for that matter).

 

[mastersracer]

It's only pointless when the domestiques are up to the human limits just like the people they're working for. Back in the day, when a leader went, another leader had to respond, because the domestiques couldn't do it.

These historical comparisons are facile. Back in the 'day' cycling was not internationalized as it is today (see, for example the book French Cycling: A Social and Cultural History, for a historical examination of this shift). Professional cycling now draws from a far broader population and an aggregate increase in talent - and less variance - is the result. This is perfectly consistent with a 'social multiplier' effect, which is a well-known mechanism that I've mentioned before. Whenever a social multiplier effect is at work the consequence is reduced variance in performance.

 

[thehog]

These historical comparisons are facile. Back in the 'day' cycling was not internationalized as it is today (see, for example the book French Cycling: A Social and Cultural History, for a historical examination of this shift). Professional cycling now draws from a far broader population and an aggregate increase in talent - and less variance - is the result. This is perfectly consistent with a 'social multiplier' effect, which is a well-known mechanism that I've mentioned before. Whenever a social multiplier effect is at work the consequence is reduced variance in performance.

Yep that explains it!

 

[roundabout]

They often were, yes.

Still, that applies to Urán or Henao. It should hardly apply to Rogers, Porte, David López (or Wiggins and Froome, for that matter).

Rogers and Porte both have GT top 10 finishes pre-Sky.

But I am too young to recall the 80's anyway.

Still it's curious to see whether the difference between first and 20th has become smaller. Certainly a lot more people than I expected got to the top of the Galibier within a couple of minutes of the lead despite the attacks starting early.

 

[Parrulo]

These historical comparisons are facile. Back in the 'day' cycling was not internationalized as it is today (see, for example the book French Cycling: A Social and Cultural History, for a historical examination of this shift). Professional cycling now draws from a far broader population and an aggregate increase in talent - and less variance - is the result. This is perfectly consistent with a 'social multiplier' effect, which is a well-known mechanism that I've mentioned before. Whenever a social multiplier effect is at work the consequence is reduced variance in performance.

they are called "human limits" for a reason and that reason certainly isn't because you can find so many people capable of reaching them that you can have a team full of them and pick your winner.

and the best part is that those guys on the limit of human physiology don't leave for other teams that don't have such riders, where they could be leaders.

 

[hrotha]

Rogers and Porte both have GT top 10 finishes pre-Sky.

But I am too young to recall the 80's anyway.

Still it's curious to see whether the difference between first and 20th has become smaller. Certainly a lot more people than I expected got to the top of the Galibier within a couple of minutes of the lead despite the attacks starting early.

Of course they did, but Rogers was a has-been when it came to GTs, and we've already discussed how Porte got that top 10. He certainly didn't do it by being one of the top 10 climbers.

I'd also like to see some serious study on this. My impression is that the differences are smaller, which would support the idea that, with an upper limit as to how fast you can go before it becoming scientifically impossible, more riders can dope less and close the gaps.

 

[the sceptic]

These historical comparisons are facile. Back in the 'day' cycling was not internationalized as it is today (see, for example the book French Cycling: A Social and Cultural History, for a historical examination of this shift). Professional cycling now draws from a far broader population and an aggregate increase in talent - and less variance - is the result. This is perfectly consistent with a 'social multiplier' effect, which is a well-known mechanism that I've mentioned before. Whenever a social multiplier effect is at work the consequence is reduced variance in performance.

And why is it only team sky that can find these generational talents? Everyone else is getting destroyed or has to dope to keep up.

 

[thehog]

Last 3km from today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA-R37jUwWY&sns=em

Speechless.

 

[spalco]

A question for the Sky fans; if other teams dominated races like this, what would be your reaction?

Yeah. Absolutely ridiculous.
UK Postal

probably the same as yours, but for the moment i enjoy watching them beat guys i don't particularly luke (one especially). ;-)

i will also watch in amusement when the whole thing blows up eventually though.

 

[Franklin]

I think Wiggins will win the Giro.

Considering what we saw at the OS I think it's going to be a challenge. The Italians hate his gut. Nibali was just urinating all over the GB team in the road race and the Spaniards were also just doing everything to let them loose. The comments against Italian and Spanish riders won't be forgotten any time soon.

Froome will be unbeatable. Be interested to see what his ITT is like. If he has got stronger. But he looks better than last year. Froome cannot lose the Tour.

There is still AC.

I'd use Porte for the Vuetla but he might end up riding the Giro and Tour.

I don't think he will be getting a leadership in a GT this year, but who knows?

Anyways, my opinion is that this won't go so smoothly.

 

[Parrulo]

just watched the last 3km's, froome accelerates at exactly the same time nibali does (on the drops so he is pretty much sprinting) and froome is still easily closing the gap on nibali and then proceeds to accelerate away . . .

yep normal day at the office for sky

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Froome did the last K in 2 minutes 17 seconds. That is nice for Chris.

 

[roundabout]

Last 3km from today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA-R37jUwWY&sns=em

Speechless.

Looks like Contador overestimated himself. He looked like he was starting to suffer even before Nibali caught him.

 

[mastersracer]

they are called "human limits" for a reason and that reason certainly isn't because you can find so many people capable of reaching them that you can have a team full of them and pick your winner.

and the best part is that those guys on the limit of human physiology don't leave for other teams that don't have such riders, where they could be leaders.

you have low standards if you think anything shown so far at P-N or T-A are even close to 'human limits.'

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

you have low standards if you think anything shown so far at P-N or T-A are even close to 'human limits.'

Perhaps you should get your sidekick in soon, he also doesn't know what is humanly possible.

Liked the show today?

 

[Arnout]

Latest rumors in medical circles are that Sky is using a next gen EPO pill. This pill is still in early testing (phase 2 of in total 4 test phases before it can enter the market, if at all). This pill differs from previous EPO variants, as it does not increase hematocrit with unnatural substances, which means it is pretty much untracable. In essence, it increases hematorit due to manipulating gen transcription, distorting that so that the body artificially produces more natural EPO than normal.

Thought I might share, although it should be kept in mind that this is hearsay from a Belgian forum.

 

[fruit bars with eyes]

Genuine question:

Does anyone know about Sky 'scouting' system. The only defense they have (don't laugh this is a serious question) is they can see something in previously unheralded riders like Porte, Cataldo, Froome etc (Wiggins to an extent) that others don't

Less genuine:

Is Harman on Eurosport joking or incredibly stupid, when he hails the 'great tactics' of Sky in, er, putting four guys on the front and killing everyone, like no one ever thought of it , or we haven't seen it before somewhere recently

 

[Califootman]

From the CN T-A Live Report: "Froome is on a different planet here, it seems."

And from today's PN Live Report: "Velits has been brought back and now Chavanel and Grivko are also forced to sit up. One Sky rider pulled them back." And, "Kiryienka is a one man team, he's still on the front with 2km to go."

Couple that with all the thinly-veiled references in today's T-A stage report, and it seems like pretty soon all CN reporting on Team Sky is going to have to be relegated to this forum.