Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

your vacuous comments do nothing to change the fact that you comment on links you clearly haven't even taken the time to read .

Fact is, the link was about an Artemisia herb, not a black market drug.

Your super stiff responses do nothing for you credibility.

Observation is a fundamental part of research analyses.

I suggest you spend some time watching the Dawg to complement your work.

Off the charts.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Leinders tested the clinic in Vienna before sending his riders there. Really protective and healthy doctoring

And tghe idiocy of this is that Lefevre knows as this has hit the news. That Lefevre is still defending him shows how rotten to his soul he is. Yeah, Lefevre needs to be tossed out of the sport even faster than Brailsford.

It all goes to show how thoroughly the doping is welcome by Hein. The guy is defending the doping.

 

[jamesmasters]

I think you may have swapped cause and effect there. Girls put through a proper GDR regime didn't tend to become beautiful, except in a mountain gorilla kind of way...

I don't know what you could possibly mean. Are you saying you didn't think that the gorgeous and very feminine Jarmila Kratochvilova was a babe (Eastern Europe rather than GDR)?

 

[The Hitch]

Prediction: TdF 2013 Froome/Wiggins go 1-2 with 7+ minutes to third place. I'm not calling third though.

I don't think Froome will leadout the Sky sprint train in yellow like Wiggins in 2012. He'll do something equally out of place for a GC leader though.

The wildcard is Porte though... It might be Froome/Porte and 7+ minutes back to third.

7 minutes. Why not 20. Or 50? The way some of you lot are going about this froome can win by 3 minutes and the sky fans will be able to say he underperformed and that clinic greatly overexagerated his ability, which you are. Christ is it that hard to sell froomes current ability as the best rider in the world as suspicious?

I suppose this would have been a good tactic for Armstrong fans they missed out on. Have posters flurry the internet with claims that he won each tour by half an hour. Then Carmichael can come on and demonstrate Armstrong only won by 7 minutes. So he's clean.

 

[D-Queued]

Froome will win july and show you nuff nuffs

My wagers are all on Froome.

My hope is McQuack is kicked out of cycling by the end of June, and SKY is fully exposed and derailed.*

Don't say I don't have stretch goals, even though my money is on the safe bet.

Dave.

*Edit to add: Kind of hoping to hear some Chicken Little The SKY is falling.

 

[thehog]

How strange - was talking with someone earlier today about Froome and there was concern expressed about him going overboard with the PEDs, doing himself in.

Usually I just have to laugh at him, but now I'm starting to fear for him. Alarm bells are ringing. Super Dog is off his head.

They need to get thermal imaging camera on the Dawg for the Tour. Just so he doesn’t implode. Might also assist the viewers at home to which part of him are alien and which are not.

 

[del1962]

My wagers are all on Froome.

My hope is McQuack is kicked out of cycling by the end of June, and SKY is fully exposed and derailed.*

Don't say I don't have stretch goals, even though my money is on the safe bet.

Dave.

*Edit to add: Kind of hoping to hear some Chicken Little The SKY is falling.

Chicken Little - 'one who warns of or predicts calamity, especially without justification’

Sounds common in this thread

 

[mastersracer]

Your super stiff responses do nothing for you credibility.

Observation is a fundamental part of research analyses.

I suggest you spend some time watching the Dawg to complement your work.

Off the charts.

I am addressing the issue, not the person. Please define off the charts because the estimates I have seen - and posted here - indicate nothing of the sort. Be specific: d’Ospedale. Can you actually contribute anything besides snickering comments?

 

[D-Queued]

I am addressing the issue, not the person. Please define off the charts because the estimates I have seen - and posted here - indicate nothing of the sort. Be specific: d’Ospedale. Can you actually contribute anything besides snickering comments?

Why don't I get any credit?

thehog is hogging all of the criticism.

Dave.

 

[del1962]

Why don't I get any credit?

thehog is hogging all of the criticism.

Dave.

To get hoggie's levels of criticism you have to go the full hog.

 

[mastersracer]

Why don't I get any credit?

thehog is hogging all of the criticism.

Dave.

well, if you claim Froome is performing at levels we've never seen from him, is taking a cocktail of GW-501516 and AICAR, performing at the limits of physiological plausibility etc., I'd be happy to respond.

almost forgot to add: if you agree with links you've never actually read because your brain is trying to catch up to your typing, I'd also be happy to respond...

 

[D-Queued]

well, if you claim Froome is performing at levels we've never seen from him, is taking a cocktail of GW-501516 and AICAR, performing at the limits of physiological plausibility etc., I'd be happy to respond.

almost forgot to add: if you agree with links you've never actually read because your brain is trying to catch up to your typing, I'd also be happy to respond...

Is this like a Strava segment?

I am sure I could get the KOM if I focused on it.

Dave.

 

[the sceptic]

7 minutes. Why not 20. Or 50? The way some of you lot are going about this froome can win by 3 minutes and the sky fans will be able to say he underperformed and that clinic greatly overexagerated his ability, which you are. Christ is it that hard to sell froomes current ability as the best rider in the world as suspicious?

I suppose this would have been a good tactic for Armstrong fans they missed out on. Have posters flurry the internet with claims that he won each tour by half an hour. Then Carmichael can come on and demonstrate Armstrong only won by 7 minutes. So he's clean.

Froome is already way beyond what any sane person could believe so does it really matter? Either way, the sky scientists team will have the explanation at hand.

If Froome barely wins the tour, then it means he was doing 5.9w/kg and Contador was doping. If Froome destroys the tour with 5+ minutes that means Froome was doing 5.9w/kg and Contador stopped doping. If Froome ends up in the gruppetto that means he was doing 5.9w/kg, but everyone else started doping like its 2006 again.

 

[Lanark]

7 minutes. Why not 20. Or 50? The way some of you lot are going about this froome can win by 3 minutes and the sky fans will be able to say he underperformed and that clinic greatly overexagerated his ability, which you are. Christ is it that hard to sell froomes current ability as the best rider in the world as suspicious?

I suppose this would have been a good tactic for Armstrong fans they missed out on. Have posters flurry the internet with claims that he won each tour by half an hour. Then Carmichael can come on and demonstrate Armstrong only won by 7 minutes. So he's clean.

I agree. The fact that Froome is the favorite for the Tour is preposterous enough. You don't have to make up extravagant scenarios to make that more damning.

 

[martinvickers]

I don't know what you could possibly mean. Are you saying you didn't think that the gorgeous and very feminine Jarmila Kratochvilova was a babe (Eastern Europe rather than GDR)?

I'm saying that I draw the line at bestiality; YMMV ;-)

 

[martinvickers]

I am addressing the issue, not the person. Please define off the charts because the estimates I have seen - and posted here - indicate nothing of the sort. Be specific: d’Ospedale. Can you actually contribute anything besides snickering comments?

masterracer

ignore button. for the best.

 

[thehog]

well, if you claim Froome is performing at levels we've never seen from him, is taking a cocktail of GW-501516 and AICAR, performing at the limits of physiological plausibility etc., I'd be happy to respond.

almost forgot to add: if you agree with links you've never actually read because your brain is trying to catch up to your typing, I'd also be happy to respond...

No what you are doing is taking the conversation into a comfortable domain. One of your liking. Each race you scour the web for data that matches your already predetermined finding.

Whenever a Sky rider gets 4th you come on this forum dropping bait that guys who get 4th don't dope.

You fail to even consider how a guy who could barely stay with the grupetto, hanging on to motorbikes, zig zagging up hills trying to follow wheels of midpack riders had transformed himself not only into a Tour contender but matches the numbers of Chicken and Indurain.

He didn't just get a little bit better. Not even a lot better but stratospherically better! It wasn't gradual but "boom" all whilst his contract options had dried up.

Whilst your numbers remind me a lot of Colonel Powell taking a dust sample to the UN to convince them that WMDs existed in Iraq you might want to look up from your data charts and watch a race now and then.

You'll always find the data to match your predetermined result but your eyes don't lie.

 

[maxmartin]

well, if you claim Froome is performing at levels we've never seen from him, is taking a cocktail of GW-501516 and AICAR, performing at the limits of physiological plausibility etc., I'd be happy to respond.

almost forgot to add: if you agree with links you've never actually read because your brain is trying to catch up to your typing, I'd also be happy to respond...

Cherry pick a few literature to reinforce your false idea is your problem. I can cite way many more literature to show AICAR and GW cocktail works like wonder drug.

 

[zalacain]

Observation is a fundamental part of research analyses.

Looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it. Good job I didn't walk in it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Christ is it that hard to sell froomes current ability as the best rider in the world as suspicious?

My post didn't come across right then.

Actually I think him getting onto a TT podium alone is sufficient for suspicion. Froome getting on a Grand Tour podium is an Adverse Analytical Finding.

 

[Clausfarre]

I'm saying that I draw the line at bestiality; YMMV ;-)

Jesus, I used to work with a guy called Jørgen Bunk who looked exactly like Jarmila (only without the muscles).

Scary as all hell.

 

[jamesmasters]

Jesus, I used to work with a guy called Jørgen Bunk who looked exactly like Jarmila (only without the muscles).

Scary as all hell.

People calling the Armstrong years a farce need to put it in context of the years when the East German/ East European drug queens ruled track and field. Ridiculously, Kratochvilova not only got away with it, but her 800m world record still stands today - about 30 years after she set it. Because she never tested positive.

Here's the video of her doing it. In terms of sheer quantity of steroids ingested by one individual, this has got to be up there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNpzsc8WWvE

 

[wansteadimp]

People calling the Armstrong years a farce need to put it in context of the years when the East German/ East European drug queens ruled track and field. Ridiculously, Kratochvilova not only got away with it, but her 800m world record still stands today - about 30 years after she set it. Because she never tested positive.

Here's the video of her doing it. In terms of sheer quantity of steroids ingested by one individual, this has got to be up there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNpzsc8WWvE

In terms of womens' records its basically only new events that have recent WRs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

As for Svetlana Masterkova, cute, but the warning signs are in the last para of her career section on wiki!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svetlana_Masterkova

 

[mastersracer]

...

You fail to even consider how a guy who could barely stay with the grupetto, hanging on to motorbikes, zig zagging up hills trying to follow wheels of midpack riders had transformed himself not only into a Tour contender but matches the numbers of Chicken and Indurain.
...

This is utter nonsense and a pure distortion. Who was 7th over the Croix de Fer on the Queen stage (17) of the 2008 Tour de France - in a group that was reduced to 14 riders, including the likes of Frank Schleck, Andy Schleck, Carlos Sastre, Cadel Evans, Christian Vande Velde, Alejandro Valverde, Bernhard Kohl, Denis Menchov, Pieter Weening, David Moncoutie, Samuel Sanchez, and Sandy Casar?

Who was 3rd among young riders on that stage - ahead of Nibali and Hesjedal?

Who rode with Menchov for much of that climb, just dangling off the back of the yellow jersey group after a blistering attack at the base of the climb that spintered the peloton? Hint: 19:49 of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4feLtHt60w

And who was 16th in the final time trial of that Tour - 2nd best young rider of that stage? For a first year pro on a small team with almost no international experience, that's plenty of sign of talent and potential. FWIW, the Giro clip you all like to show is always presented without its context - it was the result of a failed attack after a 160 km break in a small group. Big deal.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Rode with Menchov for much of the climb? He stayed with him for a few minutes when Menchov was in difficulty after the early attacks, then finished the stage 9 minutes behind him. And with the group having been reduced to that small number, Froome was a hanger-on from the break. He was detached from the group shortly after Johan freaking van Summeren.

It was a pretty good day that indicated one day he could be a decent rider, but nothing that suggested "this guy will win a GT". Augustyn - who is younger - attacking and cresting Bonette first drew more attention and deservedly so. Rigoberto Urán in the final week of the 2009 Tour was far more visible.

There's a reason that the Froome apologists always point to that day as the sign that Froome had the GC talent, and it's the same reason the cynics point to the Taaramäe on San Luca: there's practically nothing else to point to. He did next to nothing noteworthy - either good OR bad - until August 2011.

A few weeks after that Alpe show, Robert Gesink, who's a year younger than Froome, finished 6th on Anglirú en route to a Vuelta top 10. After a season where he'd been 4th in Paris-Nice, 12th in País Vasco, 4th in Flèche Wallonne, 4th in the Dauphiné. THAT is showing the potential that says you can be a GT winner. Being in the break of the day and eventually finishing 30th on the stage is a pretty impressive showing for a young competitor like Froome was in 2008, but if that's all it takes to justify somebody carving the field up like he suddenly started doing in August 2011 with no warning whatsoever and after two years of achieving absolutely bupkis, guys like Christophe Riblon and Amaël Moinard would be GT winners by now.