Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[hulkgogan]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

All of those guys could do a decent Liege on form. Wiggins is the most one dimensional GT winner of recent memory. I thought he had been working on his punchiness?

And that descending? Pathetic and inscrutable; what happened to training one's weaknesses? For all Sky go on about their scientific approach, they sure do have some big blind spots.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

All of those guys could do a decent Liege on form. Wiggins is the most one dimensional GT winner of recent memory. I thought he had been working on his punchiness?

And that descending? Pathetic and inscrutable; what happened to training one's weaknesses? For all Sky go on about their scientific approach, they sure do have some big blind spots.

Marginal stagnation.

I think they were relying on something else, and that something else is detectable now...but one never knows.

 

[proffate]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

When Brailsford said "[we'll] welcome the time trial tomorrow and as soon as the road goes uphill we’ll welcome that too.” it seemed pretty apparent to me he meant "we've been saving our bags for the days we earmarked as more important". This is reminiscent of Rodriguez's losing ride at the Vuelta last year, when Alberto was the only one to use a bag on a stage everyone else thought was indecisive.

 

[Ferminal]

Anyone who missed 450ml last night will know about it today.

There was a 200km+ transfer after the stage, Astana got the chopper

Never underestimate logistics.

 

[Ripper]

Ouch, that looked like a painful day for Sky, in more ways than one.

I have this weird feeling that Liggo is not actually going to go that well tomorrow.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Marginal stagnation.

I think they were relying on something else, and that something else is detectable now...but one never knows.

Nah, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the team seems to have contracted humanitis just after WADA came up with a new test and a couple positives.
Good news though, maybe UCI was not complicit this time?
Guess we won't know until the tour though as Sir Bradley seems to be capable of cocking up the Giro all on his own.

 

[maxmartin]

Nah, I'm sure it's just a coincidence that the team seems to have contracted humanitis just after WADA came up with a new test and a couple positives.
Good news though, maybe UCI was not complicit this time?
Guess we won't know until the tour though as Sir Bradley seems to be capable of cocking up the Giro all on his own.

you should comment this on my thread

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=20266

 

[Afrank]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

If they had, they sure as hell would have fought hard to get back on. Once Wiggins was dropped and then crashed he barely even tried to fight back on. Any motivation he had went out the window.

 

[Bannockburn]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

That might be pushing it a bit

 

[nevada]

I can't think of a single in form GT champion that would have been dropped on that final hill. Would Lemond have been dropped? Indurain? Schleck? Alberto?

All of those guys could do a decent Liege on form. Wiggins is the most one dimensional GT winner of recent memory. I thought he had been working on his punchiness?

And that descending? Pathetic and inscrutable; what happened to training one's weaknesses? For all Sky go on about their scientific approach, they sure do have some big blind spots.

Do you ride a bike ? Have you crashed on a wet descent ?

 

[Lanark]

Do you ride a bike ? Have you crashed on a wet descent ?

Don't turn around the causality. Wiggins crashed because he was riding poor, he didn't ride poor because he crashed.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't turn around the causality. Wiggins crashed because he was riding poor, he didn't ride poor because he crashed.

I'm guessing he was riding poorly and crashed as a result. Then rode worse as a result of the crash.

TT tomorrow. Lots of hills to come. And a rest day at the end of week two.

Fat lady is still lying in bed deciding what to have for breakfast.

 

[Lanark]

Sure, he was worse after the crash. But that crash wasn't just bad luck, it was because yesterday (and tuesday) he was scared out of his mind to ride in the rain.

If it rains today, we're gonna see a repeat of the 2005 Rasmussen ITT.

 

[ultimobici]

Don't turn around the causality. Wiggins crashed because he was riding poor, he didn't ride poor because he crashed.

So does that apply to Nibali? He crashed too, not to mention his disastrous faceplant in the 2010 Lombardia. Must be the same, no?

 

[Lanark]

So does that apply to Nibali? He crashed too, not to mention his disastrous faceplant in the 2010 Lombardia. Must be the same, no?

No it musn't be. There can be many explanations for the same thing (crashing). Taking too much risk (Nibali), pure bad luck (Scarponi), or riding like a clown (Wiggins).

Nibali isn't really that great of a descender, he just takes a lot of risks, and crashes sometimes because of that. But for everyone who has seen Wiggins riding the last couple of days, it's obvious what a ludicrous assesment it would be to suggest that he took too many risks. Quite the opposite. Scared like a little kid.

 

[Ferminal]

Generally you will crash if you exceed the maximum possible speed which you can take through a corner.

Agree with the above, Nibali is just crazy. Technically wouldn't have him in the same class as a Sagan or Cancellara. Wiggins may be a very good descender but if your confidence is at zero it doesn't matter.

 

[blackcat]

I'm guessing he was riding poorly and crashed as a result. Then rode worse as a result of the crash.

TT tomorrow. Lots of hills to come. And a rest day at the end of week two.

Fat lady is still lying in bed deciding what to have for breakfast.

is the opera il Wigans Felatio?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm not touching that one.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Wiggins Fear

I empathise with Wiggins. He's recently been knocked off the bike by a car in UK, broken collarbone...and he's got 'the fear'....injuries are a pain in the ***...time off the bike, PAIN.

Very understandable the way he rode.

 

[thehog]

So does that apply to Nibali? He crashed too, not to mention his disastrous faceplant in the 2010 Lombardia. Must be the same, no?

I just think it's funny to watch how uneasy he descends in the wet and how uneasy he is with a camera on him when under pressure. No hiding place, not a natural. Very awkward and stiff riding today especially. Maybe it'll help for tomorrow maybe the performance and fall today will hinder him. If anything it's the latter because he needs the time back more. What's the weather saying tomorrow?

...and uneasy talking to the media afterwards. Has anyone seen him?

So much for the Giro/Tour double. So a massive contrast to the way Contador rider the 2011 Tour. He lost time, crashed but faced up to it and raced hard.

We have a Shleck in the making here.

 

[bobbins]

I think the changes in team personnel, inexperienced DSs, pressure to perform, the froom, etc, etc are all building up. Since last year he has lost his doctor, DS and long time coach.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think the changes in team personnel, inexperienced DSs, pressure to perform, the froom, etc, etc are all building up. Since last year he has lost his doctor, DS and long time coach.

Huh? Lost his long-time coach? Rod Ellingworth coached Wiggins to 4th at the TdF in 2009. Who are you talking about?

 

[zalacain]

Do you ride a bike ? Have you crashed on a wet descent ?

Yes but I never stopped trying to get back on.
Crashing on the dry is worse believe me.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

And there's the rub really: when comparing riders you can't be certain whether they are clean or doping, how long they have been doping for, what cocktails of drugs they may have been using, when in the year they used the most and how naturally talented they might actually be.

Pre - epo/bloodbags races like l'Avenir were quite a good indication on how talented riders were. Even some epo wonders like Ugromov were good without that little aid.

Clearly there is an easy accusation that Sky are doping and their training etc is PR guff, usually accompanied with an appropriate sarcasm remark (not necessarily from yourself), yet you have to be suspicious of the entire pro-tour: there is no team or riders out there you can say for certain are clean. So Sky are dirty by beating them.

No, they are highly suspicious by total domination in stage races - let alone who is dominating -, from februari till the second week of the Vuelta.

Yet if everyone is doping including Sky, and Sky are winning, then Sky's training is working, so it's marginal gains plus doping.

I thought we had established common ground on the fact people respond different to dope. The Teide training is a red herring. Numerous riders go there.

My interest lies where Wiggins trained in 2009 with his new found body.

Or its they've found some next-gen **** no-one else has got yet. Which is pure speculation and neither provable or deniable.

Possible, we dont know. But, remember how long it took to find a test for several forms of r-epo.

You ever watched a dog chase its tail? This is what we do here. Until doping controls improve and we have governance we can believe in we will continue to chase our tails, examining every utterance, every performance, all their body language and blending them into a narrative that suits our perspective. But ultimately it's a rather perverse exercise in futility, although it certainly does hone the debating skills.

So I'm taking the long view, confident that empires crumble and fall, like Lance's did, given enough time and enough whispering. The truth will out, eventually, and I owe you a tall, cold one if you're right and I'm wrong

I can only speak for myself but my main problem with Sky is their socalled clean mantra. Winning in the name of clean cycling.

Cycling is a lot like Formula One, forbid one thing, the engineers [in cycling the doctors] will find something else what will be just as effective.

 

[The Hitch]

Marginal stagnation.

I think they were relying on something else, and that something else is detectable now...but one never knows.

If that was the case how comes he was climbing with Nibali in Trentino and how comes Froome is blowing everyone away on every climb?

I think its best not to make any specific claims about what sky are taking and when because one just doesn't know. There are a million and one ways people can dope or cheat.