Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Mrs John Murphy]

Yep, we are all looking for the sky doctors while the ones we should really have a look at are the team tailors.

I think a requirement of being a British cyclist is that you have to dress like a ****

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think a requirement of being a British cyclist is that you have to dress like a ****

Nah, Wiggins is just trying to be King of the Mods

 

[postmanhat]

Well of course he did but he never was convicted of a positive test and was not caught in possession.

Compare and contrast with the garbage put out about the Olympic Team Sprint. Hindes admits team GB broke the rules. GB management knew they broke the rules. But, exactly like Lance, they were not convicted.

Not caught, so nothing done wrong.

And it was not an insignificant event. Mess up at the start or the changeover in this event and it is "game over". That is the race. It was game over.

OK so if they had put their hands up, the gold would have gone to France and they had also twisted the rules and backdated a penalty so their doper (sorry, exactly like Longo - not a doper but person who missed a scheduled test) could ride. So taking the comparison of sins (what a sh*t hole to be in) Hindes' deliberate fall was a lesser sin than that of the French Federation in squeezing Bauge the ride. So that makes it ok ?

But then in the debate, Steve Peters Brailsford and Sutton, when they discussed the pros and cons of "mea culpa" that afternoon in the velodrome, what happened to morality? I suggest exactly the same thing that happened to morality when discussing employing Barry, Leinders or Yates. Brailsford knew exactly what he was taking on and payed the odds. And in doing so entered a game of "not being discovered" as opposed to "doing it right". Therefore only "degree" differs between the GB gold in the team sprint in London for Sir Chris and Lance's Tour wins, after all, just like the French, weren't the rest cheats as well ?

The fact that the whole lot is a sack of trash, is the true sign that there can be no place for Pat or Hein. If it stinks at the top it is not going to clean itself on the way down. The decision to ride the comms at London and "they have not got the bottle to kick out two GB teams in 10 minutes and rob the Nation of Sir Chris's dream AND give it to the cheating French", was as morally bankrupt as letting cancer Jesus off in 1999. They were both wrong. And both taken by the men at the top. Arise Sir David Brailsford.

Comparing what happened at the team sprint to Armstrong is barmy

Moreover, he's never admitted 'it'

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think Wiggins may support Froome, he does ride for others well called on. I think he wants to fill out his palmeres so may target the Giro and the Worlds in the coming season.

I hope you mean the Worlds TT, because if Wiggins were to win the Worlds RR in 2013, this thread would explode to an extent even greater than the Tour win.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I hope you mean the Worlds TT, because if Wiggins were to win the Worlds RR in 2013, this thread would explode to an extent even greater than the Tour win.

I read he wanted both, not necessarily this year. He talked about the Tour being like the Olympics for him, something to be targeted every few years, I think he's happy with having won one. He talked about wanting to add the Giro and Paris Roubaix and the Worlds to his palmeres.

Are you saying a rider of his style couldn't win the world RR, or just the 2013 parcours? We saw him win a sprint in the Tour of Romandie, he's a handy six-day/Madison rider. Cav would win the sprints and Bradley would take the lap, not explosive but able to TT away from the bunch, on the track granted.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Wiggins has never really shown any ability in one-day racing (on the road). And 2013's route is a very tough one over 280km, while Wiggins has little to no real explosivity (he has also shown little to no evidence of himself contending as a puncheur), which means that for Wiggins to win, he'd either need to be led by a péloton-shredding super-train (which would be just like the Sky Train at the Tour, only with fewer guys that people would expect to be up there on such a tough parcours doing it), or by an epic solo where he time trialled away from everybody, which would probably need to be over quite some distance to negate counter attacks, bearing in mind Wiggins isn't explosive and isn't renowned as a descender, and also the type of rider he's likely to be competing for the win with.

Both scenarios would generate much Clinic activity.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Wiggins has never really shown any ability in one-day racing ... has little to no real explosivity...

Re one-day racing, a decade of showing no form in stage racing didn't prove to be an insurmountable handicap to winning this year's Tour, though given his age now, further striking developments are not that likely, one would think.

Re explosivity, I'd agree that he's never shown any on long uphills, but a guy who has excelled at the TP and won a sprint finish in a stage race must have a fair amount of acceleration to draw on. I guess the issue is how explosive he is with 200 hard kilometers in his legs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re one-day racing, a decade of showing no form in stage racing didn't prove to be an insurmountable handicap to winning this year's Tour, though given his age now, further striking developments are not that likely, one would think.

They haven't been to the wind tunnel yet. I am sure they could add that marginal gain and boost him another 5% at least...

Re explosivity, I'd agree that he's never shown any on long uphills, but a guy who has excelled at the TP and won a sprint finish in a stage race must have a fair amount of acceleration to draw on. I guess the issue is how explosive he is with 200 hard kilometers in his legs.

Being able to outsprint people after a few days leg-sapping riding is all about recovery and not the same as doing it the first day (ala a one-day race). If he wins the worlds in anything but a TT, we will have to revisit the Tim Kerrison program of prepratore with perhaps somewhat greater disbelief.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re one-day racing, a decade of showing no form in stage racing didn't prove to be an insurmountable handicap to winning this year's Tour, though given his age now, further striking developments are not that likely, one would think.

My contention was that if he won the Worlds RR this thread would explode.

This thread exploded when he reinvented himself as a Tour-winning rider, did it not?

 

[roundabout]

They haven't been to the wind tunnel yet. I am sure they could add that marginal gain and boost him another 5% at least...



Being able to outsprint people after a few days leg-sapping riding is all about recovery and not the same as doing it the first day (ala a one-day race). If he wins the worlds in anything but a TT, we will have to revisit the Tim Kerrison program of prepratore with perhaps somewhat greater disbelief.

The sprint which he won was on the first road stage in the Tour de Romandie.

That said, I think in a small group sprint where the acceleration really counts he will still have problems.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The sprint which he won was on the first road stage in the Tour de Romandie.

That said, I think in a small group sprint where the acceleration really counts he will still have problems.

Yes, I recall now - all in the saddle yeah? With a slight downhill / dip?

Hmmm. Will be interesting to see then.

 

[roundabout]

Yeah, probably a slight downhill.

Still, it would need to be a long sprint.

 

[The Hitch]

I read he wanted both, not necessarily this year. He talked about the Tour being like the Olympics for him, something to be targeted every few years, I think he's happy with having won one. He talked about wanting to add the Giro and Paris Roubaix and the Worlds to his palmeres.

Are you saying a rider of his style couldn't win the world RR, or just the 2013 parcours? We saw him win a sprint in the Tour of Romandie, he's a handy six-day/Madison rider. Cav would win the sprints and Bradley would take the lap, not explosive but able to TT away from the bunch, on the track granted.

Wiggins cannot win the worlds rr.

And im not 1 of those guys who thinks wiggins only won the tour because it was suited for him. I think barring Froome who obviously worked for him, he was stronger than all those riders in the mountains too and would have won the Tour (provided Froome worked for him) even if there was only 30k of tt and 10 mtfs.

But the thing is, at the worlds, even if we had a similar lineup - no Contador or Schleck, then there is still a whole new catergory of hill specialists to factor in - Gilbert, Purito, Valverde, Sagan, Cancellara even etc

And while you mention Wiggins sprint win in Romandie, all of these guys are significantly better sprinters than Wiggins, and thats assuming wiggins held on with them, or made the right moves.

Also, he wouldnt have someone of Froomes quality working for him in so far as in a worlds race if Froome looks around and thinks himself stronger than Wiggins, he goes. No race radios or contracts to consider.

 

[Telmisartan new]

This thread is descending into farce now.Wiggins a possible for Worlds RR? Paris-Roubaix? There is more chance of Cav winning a summit finish at the Tour,its fantasy stuff,Wiggins at the hell of the north riding everyone off his wheel and just TTing away from the field,maybe somewhere around Mons-en-Pevele and cruising into the Roubaix Velodrome after riding 60k solo,do me a favour,the known cobbles master Wiggins? I know who started this stuff a few posts back and i am not surprised.At least its been treated with the scorn and derision it deserves.Wiggins, you'd think he invented the sport the way some people go on.A guy posted a while back what is Wiggins apart from a f**king boring rider with a bad attitude. Couldn't have put it better myself.

 

[thehog]

This thread is descending into farce now.Wiggins a possible for Worlds RR? Paris-Roubaix? There is more chance of Cav winning a summit finish at the Tour,its fantasy stuff,Wiggins at the hell of the north riding everyone off his wheel and just TTing away from the field,maybe somewhere around Mons-en-Pevele and cruising into the Roubaix Velodrome after riding 60k solo,do me a favour,the known cobbles master Wiggins? I know who started this stuff a few posts back and i am not surprised.At least its been treated with the scorn and derision it deserves.Wiggins, you'd think he invented the sport the way some people go on.A guy posted a while back what is Wiggins apart from a f**king boring rider with a bad attitude. Couldn't have put it better myself.

Reminds me of the "Hincapie for the Tour" threads back in '05.

 

[Telmisartan new]

Reminds me of the "Hincapie for the Tour" threads back in '05.

Wasn't here at that time but i can imagine.....

 

[BroDeal]

Do you think Wiggins not targetting the Tour next year suggests he's decided to quit while he's ahead?

I think it makes his TdF win look even more suspicious. If he legitimately won the Tour, climbing with the best, then why not try again. Even with a route that might favor Froome over Wiggins, there are lots of things that can go wrong with Froome's attempt. There is everyting from crashing to being off form to a reappearance of his blood disease. There have been so many crashes of contenders the last couple of years that it has become a bit of a crap shoot for a rider to reach the mountains still in contention.

It is hard to escape the feeling that Wiggins doped to his eyeballs to win one Tour and is now playing it smart by not trying to tempt fate.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think it makes his TdF win look even more suspicious. If he legitimately won the Tour, climbing with the best, then why not try again. Even with a route that might favor Froome over Wiggins, there are lots of things that can go wrong with Froome's attempt. There is everyting from crashing to being off form to a reappearance of his blood disease. There have been so many crashes of contenders the last couple of years that it has become a bit of a crap shoot for a rider to reach the mountains still in contention.

It is hard to escape the feeling that Wiggins doped to his eyeballs to win one Tour and is now playing it smart by not trying to tempt fate.

It'd be like winning a world champs and one Olympic medal in IP and saying, meh think I'll round out my palmares with a points race medal next.

I thought the Italian mountains tended to be steeper and stuff? Wouldn't that knock Wiggins for 6?

 

[BroDeal]

It'd be like winning a world champs and one Olympic medal in IP and saying, meh think I'll round out my palmares with a points race medal next.

I thought the Italian mountains tended to be steeper and stuff? Wouldn't that knock Wiggins for 6?

Steeper mountains in the Giro and the Vuelta, and lots more of them than the Tour. The Tour's climbs rarely go over 10% grade, and the racing style used at the Tour favors a diesel-like rider. Then again, Basso (post 2005), Menchov, and Hesjedal all managed to win the Giro.

 

[thehog]

I think it makes his TdF win look even more suspicious. If he legitimately won the Tour, climbing with the best, then why not try again. Even with a route that might favor Froome over Wiggins, there are lots of things that can go wrong with Froome's attempt. There is everyting from crashing to being off form to a reappearance of his blood disease. There have been so many crashes of contenders the last couple of years that it has become a bit of a crap shoot for a rider to reach the mountains still in contention.

It is hard to escape the feeling that Wiggins doped to his eyeballs to win one Tour and is now playing it smart by not trying to tempt fate.

i agree. And I think the entire Armstrong thing has spooked them. Knowing that if you bury this for too many years you eventually get leaks or a weak link and it goes bust.

Armstrong did incredibly well for so long keeping it in the bag. Not something Wiggins could do though.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Steeper mountains in the Giro and the Vuelta, and lots more of them than the Tour. The Tour's climbs rarely go over 10% grade, and the racing style used at the Tour favors a diesel-like rider. Then again, Basso (post 2005), Menchov, and Hesjedal all managed to win the Giro.

Ah yes there's a good list of cleanliness right there...

I don't recall Wiggins getting out of the saddle once during the TdF. Wow. He didn't even sprint out of the saddle at Romandie. When Froome was smashing himself in one finish, out of the saddle, Wiggins was sitting on his wheel, then crossed the line hardly breathing. Froome was smashing himself.

Bad Internet right now but I'd like to go back to his final TT and see if he was physically stressed post TT.

Maybe as well as cruising the climbs he was cruising the TT and just using time checks to beat Froome but not really going full-gas.

 

[FellOff]

Ah yes there's a good list of cleanliness right there...

I don't recall Wiggins getting out of the saddle once during the TdF. Wow. He didn't even sprint out of the saddle at Romandie. When Froome was smashing himself in one finish, out of the saddle, Wiggins was sitting on his wheel, then crossed the line hardly breathing. Froome was smashing himself.

Wiggins has never got out of saddle, that's his style of riding, he's famous for it, it's his trademark. Surprised people here are unaware of that.

He said during this years TDF that he would support Froome next year, so another thing to not be overly surprised about.

Saying Wiggins was hardly breathing is rewriting reality: he was clearly rescued by Froome more than once. The truth is, the others weren't strong enough (or doped enough?) to put him under pressure when it counted.

Perhaps you missed the TDF this year?

 

[BroDeal]

Wiggins has never got out of saddle, that's his style of riding, he's famous for it, it's his trademark. Surprised people here are unaware of that.

He said during this years TDF that he would support Froome next year, so another thing to not be overly surprised about.

Saying Wiggins was hardly breathing is rewriting reality: he was clearly rescued by Froome more than once. The truth is, the others weren't strong enough (or doped enough?) to put him under pressure when it counted.

Perhaps you missed the TDF this year?

Wiggins has not been riding long enough at a high level to be famous for any style.

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins has never got out of saddle, that's his style of riding, he's famous for it, it's his trademark. Surprised people here are unaware of that.

He said during this years TDF that he would support Froome next year, so another thing to not be overly surprised about.

Saying Wiggins was hardly breathing is rewriting reality: he was clearly rescued by Froome more than once. The truth is, the others weren't strong enough (or doped enough?) to put him under pressure when it counted.

Perhaps you missed the TDF this year?

I remember seeing wiggins out of the saddle at the annency tt, in the early parts, way before the hill. I remember because that very day i went for a cycle for the first time in years and was wondering whether going out of the saddle was a good thing to try and copy.

 

[FellOff]

I remember seeing wiggins out of the saddle at the annency tt, in the early parts, way before the hill. I remember because that very day i went for a cycle for the first time in years and was wondering whether going out of the saddle was a good thing to try and copy.

Damn, you caught me out exaggerating. But Wiggins mountain style is grinding: he's simply incapable of explosion, hardly ever attacks, needs a tempo, and never, never, never, well, hardly ever, gets out of the saddle. You might say he rides everything like a TT. This years tour was tailor made for him, because he had Froome's help in the mountains and was a clear TT winner. Playing second fiddle next year, or claiming it, is perfectly sensible, consistent, and hardly grounds for suspicion. From Froome's point of view though, Wiggins may be of limited help in the worst parts of the mountains next year, and a potential psychological irritant in the TTs. Still, could be worse...