Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

The fact he was right about Armstrong doesn't mean he'll be right about everything in the entire world from now on.

The "evidence" he comes up with is scarce at best. Mind you, I'm not a Wiggo apologist, but this is just seeking headlines. The only thing he has going for him is the Geert Leinders story. Maybe mr. Kimmage can explain why Wiggo already got 4th in the Tour on Garmin then.

Maybe you can explain how someone who was 30 minutes behind on mountain stages in the doped 2006 tour and 30 minutes behind on mountain stages on the doped 2007 Tour ends up climbing with the best of them in the 2009 Tour where positions 1 3 5 and 6 have all since been caught doping.

Also the Lienders story is actually a pretty big fish considering a team which claims to be 100% honest and transparent refuses to answer any questions about him.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Is cleanlihood next to godlihood?

No man its next to lower south side in the hood

 

[The Hitch]

May I propose a Millar/JV masterclass?

Even if Sky are clean, what Millar says there reveals either extreme stupidity or willingness to keep doping under the carpet.

Whether he wants a team to be clean or not, how does he spin scepticism of a team that dominated a race with such a history of doping, as "questions about their zero tolerance policy".

Its not like their zero tolerance policy was exactly a success to start with. Someone who's been through what Millar has and seen what Millar has, should know Bailsford isnt exactly being honest with some of the crap he comes out with.

 

[The Hitch]

I wonder if the accusations from Kimmage are in part a petulent reactiion to what Wiggins wrote about hims.

"Anyone who questions that my favorite rider is clean is probably just jealous and out with a grudge"

Pop quiz.

Which fanboy group and rider popularized this line of flaming?

 

[Joachim]

Actually would be a PR coup for sky to embed Kimmage for the Tour. I don't buy the dislike people have for him; he was railing about doping and Armstrong when it was very bad for him career wise and personally, so I don't think it's self interest. I do hope he isn't right, as I'm sure, does he.

Eh? He made his name off the back of Armstrong.

He is an abrasive person, not what you want around you when you have the stress of trying to win the tour. If you consider that Wiggins was in yellow for 2 weeks, meaning that he was having to wait for the podium and sit in the press tent after every stage, when his opponents were already back in the hotel.

Why on earth would he want to promise more time to yet another journalist, plus have the guy in his face when he's trying to eat his breakfast.

If I had been in Wiggins place, I'd have done the same.

It's no wonder Kimmage is ****ed. His career is badly flagging and this could have been a lifeline.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Basically, it's a re-hash of the exact same stuff from a few weeks ago, qualified for legal reasons with a big, "I don't know".
Sounds to me as if he's:
a) Challenging Sky to give him some of the power data/ascent times (i.e. do his work for him) and Wiggins/Froome's Tour blood values.
b) Still miffed at not getting his VIP seat on the Sky Tour bus.
c) Still looking for a job.

 

[sniper]

Eh? He made[i/] his name off the back of Armstrong.

He is an abrasive person, not what you want around you when you have the stress of trying to win the tour. If you consider that Wiggins was in yellow for 2 weeks, meaning that he was having to wait for the podium and sit in the press tent after every stage, when his opponents were already back in the hotel.

Why on earth would he want to promise more time to yet another journalist, plus have the guy in his face when he's trying to eat his breakfast.

If I had been in Wiggins place, I'd have done the same.

It's no wonder Kimmage is ****ed. His career is badly flagging and this could have been a lifeline.

all you are saying (and you're right) is that the dopers are still on the winning side, and the anti-dopers on the losing side.
kimmage can stand on his head, it won't stop wiggins from doping.
wiggins can continue to insult our intelligence (well at least mine, not so much yours apparently), and nobody but kimmage, lemond, ashenden and a few clinicians will care about it.

 

[thehog]

Eh? He made[i/] his name off the back of Armstrong.

He is an abrasive person, not what you want around you when you have the stress of trying to win the tour. If you consider that Wiggins was in yellow for 2 weeks, meaning that he was having to wait for the podium and sit in the press tent after every stage, when his opponents were already back in the hotel.

Why on earth would he want to promise more time to yet another journalist, plus have the guy in his face when he's trying to eat his breakfast.

If I had been in Wiggins place, I'd have done the same.

It's no wonder Kimmage is ****ed. His career is badly flagging and this could have been a lifeline.

No he made his back off writing "Rough Ride" an account of his own experiences and doping.

He also wrote on several other sports not just cycling.

He won awards for his books on Rugby and Football.

You don't know a lot do you?

 

[thehog]

No he made his back off writing "Rough Ride" an account of his own experiences and doping.

He also wrote on several other sports not just cycling.

He won awards for his books on Rugby and Football.

You don't know a lot do you?

In fact Kimmage has never written a book on Armstrong. Or that many articles.

I think someone has him confused with David Walsh

Besides Kimmage has a 100% record on picking out the "doping" teams.

 

[Joachim]

all you are saying (and you're right) is that the dopers are still on the winning side, and the anti-dopers on the losing side.
kimmage can stand on his head, it won't stop wiggins from doping.
wiggins can continue to insult our intelligence (well at least mine, not so much yours apparently), and nobody but kimmage, lemond, ashenden and a few clinicians will care about it.

Try it again without the straw man

 

[Hugh Januss]

“I’m tested by the UCI God knows how many times a year, God knows how many times on this race and the Dauphiné, blood tested every morning… What more can I do ? I don’t know really ? I’d love to know.”

Dare we say, as many as 500 times.
He should have prefaced that with"stop me if you think you have heard this one before".

 

[Galic Ho]

Ah someone calling it as he sees it upsetting Sky! Bet Fran/Wiggins/Brailsfords are having babies.

Kimmage aint Jobless. He is now freelance like most journalists, with 92K behind him to pursue his project of Hein/McQuaid's demise at UCI.

You're sad little dig at kimmage is right out of the top drawer of Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton.

You are painting a vivd picture of where you come from.

I amazed it took people this long to figure out. The part where he/she/it said Armstrong never tested positive was pure trolling garbage. And yet people kept feeding this imposter for another five plus pages before you left this quote. Then when a mod replied, might have been Ferryman or Ferminal or Red Flanders...well the lies to cover their idiocy came out and they conveniently attempted to dodge their initial true intent.

A troll is a troll. Don't feed them. This persons sounds exactly the same as another poster on the forum. I'd wage they're the same person. Heck, their language is exactly the same.

@del1962. Wake the frak up and get your head checked. Proving cleanliness has been covered so many times on this forum it isn't funny. Or have you not been paying attention? Are you really that dense you can't figure it out for yourself? Simple small moves. Post your data. Like yesterday. That's the simple starting point. The rest is crystal clear. Move then to the UCI. Anyone holding McQuacks hand is a liar or getting in his corner. No leeway should be given. Everything is questionable and no cyclist or team gets a freebie. Nothing is owed to them, but it is they who have a debt to pay. Been a lot of promises from Sky and zero real action, other than removing questionable staff in order to avoid the aftermath of their inevitable doping shenanigans in the future.

Pretty simple people. If a poster who is pro Sky is telling porkies and feigning ignorance on core and common knowledge regarding doping and LA of all people, then they be trolling you. If they're not, which is highly unlikely, then they deserve no pleasantries at this juncture. Baptism by fire is a nice entry to the Clinic. Grand sweeping statements that run in the opposite direction to known facts and truths about doping are not mistakes, they're intent is deliberate. It's 2013 and people still don't get it even about LA. The timeline for understanding and a smidgen on empathy in this forum, regarding LA and one lacking in knowledge of his dealings, passed last year with the Reasoned Decision publishing by USADA.

You've all been trolled for the last 10+ pages. Good job guys. I'll put it down to too much new years liquor.

 

[Galic Ho]

Who is visiting a gynecologist in Spain?

This is what I meant in my above post. Common frakking knowledge is in the Clinic. Has been for 3 years now. You're trolling dude or so far out of your depth it isn't funny. So which is it? Trolling or you never ever heard about Franck Schleck's payment to Eufemanio Fuentes of 13K Euros?

Let me guess, you've never heard of Fuentes? Or his black book? Or how about Operation Puerto? Ring any bells in that skull of yours? Do everyone a favour, give Doc Brown a call, borrow the Delorean and travel back to 2012 and smack yourself in the face once or twice on the day you decide to open that account on here. That way the forum won't have to have their collective intelligence insulted with this idiocy. You should know very well by now who Fuentes is and that his medical specialty before doping was gynecology. And you most certainly should know Riis has a history of sending his riders to Fuentes for doping programs and supplies. Least of all Franck Schleck.

There are certain things in the Clinic that are considered base knowledge. This is one. Yet again, another pro Sky newbie conveniently doesn't know the basics! And they're not trolling or so we've been told this past 6 months!

Want to know why this thread has so many pages to it? Half the pro Sky posters have been doing this exclusively again, and again and again and again for the last 6 months. 10 pages explaining another well covered thing and then more derailment. Then an established forum member, like Libertine has to do yet another in depth post about the same old thing once again. Just a repeating cycle of a pro sky foumist either showing their colossal ignorance, or trolling (take your pick) and then another non stop debate concerning the same mumbo jumbo repeated continuously. It's not like I didn't warn people.

Good luck reading this broken thread with this level of idiocy permeating every second post. If someone cannot get basic info right, do everyone a favour and don't encourage them anymore with a reply. It'd make reading this thread bearable once again. And if a mod has an issue with this, I asked a question. I did not label anyone a troll. I covered all the angles as to what these posts could have been. Either someone needs to brush up on simple Clinic lore, or they are trolling. Take your pick. But it should not be tolerated and encouraged. It gets old having to hear Libertine clarify the obvious with a well thought out and written post, for the pro sky crowd every single day (or whomever else feels obliged).

 

[del1962]

I amazed it took people this long to figure out. The part where he/she/it said Armstrong never tested positive was pure trolling garbage. And yet people kept feeding this imposter for another five plus pages before you left this quote. Then when a mod replied, might have been Ferryman or Ferminal or Red Flanders...well the lies to cover their idiocy came out and they conveniently attempted to dodge their initial true intent.

A troll is a troll. Don't feed them. This persons sounds exactly the same as another poster on the forum. I'd wage they're the same person. Heck, their language is exactly the same.

@del1962. Wake the frak up and get your head checked. Proving cleanliness has been covered so many times on this forum it isn't funny. Or have you not been paying attention? Are you really that dense you can't figure it out for yourself? Simple small moves. Post your data. Like yesterday. That's the simple starting point. The rest is crystal clear. Move then to the UCI. Anyone holding McQuacks hand is a liar or getting in his corner. No leeway should be given. Everything is questionable and no cyclist or team gets a freebie. Nothing is owed to them, but it is they who have a debt to pay. Been a lot of promises from Sky and zero real action, other than removing questionable staff in order to avoid the aftermath of their inevitable doping shenanigans in the future.

Pretty simple people. If a poster who is pro Sky is telling porkies and feigning ignorance on core and common knowledge regarding doping and LA of all people, then they be trolling you. If they're not, which is highly unlikely, then they deserve no pleasantries at this juncture. Baptism by fire is a nice entry to the Clinic. Grand sweeping statements that run in the opposite direction to known facts and truths about doping are not mistakes, they're intent is deliberate. It's 2013 and people still don't get it even about LA. The timeline for understanding and a smidgen on empathy in this forum, regarding LA and one lacking in knowledge of his dealings, passed last year with the Reasoned Decision publishing by USADA.

You've all been trolled for the last 10+ pages. Good job guys. I'll put it down to too much new years liquor.

I am awake and my head is fine,

It seems you mode of operation though is insult, fairly pathetic stuff though you saddo

 

[simo1733]

What could Wiggo do to help prove his innicence.Obviously he wouldn't hand over all his data to someone like Kimmage.What he could do his hand over his data to a respected doping scientist for analysis.Not a celebrity scientist like Ashenden, but someone who doesn't seek the limelight and is only well known within his field.

 

[thehog]

Dare we say, as many as 500 times.
He should have prefaced that with"stop me if you think you have heard this one before".

The Armstrong playbook now has dog eyes its been used so much.

Even Kimmage is in for a beating!

He's just a jobless former hack journo trying to salvage a career!

 

[sniper]

I am awake and my head is fine,

It seems you mode of operation though is insult, fairly pathetic stuff though you saddo

galic ho's right.
you and joachim are like undergrads in a postgrad lecture: not understanding much, slowing down the pace, asking the teacher to explain stuff that is considered preknowledge.

you and joachim remind of that lady who got in a coma one year before the Berlin Wall fell, and woke up one year after it had fallen: the whole world around her had changed, and she wasn't able to grasp it.

 

[thehog]

What could Wiggo do to help prove his innicence.Obviously he wouldn't hand over all his data to someone like Kimmage.What he could do his hand over his data to a respected doping scientist for analysis.Not a celebrity scientist like Ashenden, but someone who doesn't seek the limelight and is only well known within his field.

Wiggins says you should just make it public;

“I think they should make these things public,” he said.

“The whole blood passport should be on [the] internet, every rider in the peloton. I don’t see why it shouldn’t be. It’s got to that stage now where if there’s nothing to hide why aren’t they up there? You can pull up in any walk of life, company accounts, people’s tax and that’s public knowledge, so I don’t see why the blood passport shouldn’t be public knowledge. It will silence people or challenge certain things but I don’t see what harm it would do. It would give you credibility in the public’s eyes … but I don’t think everyone would agree to it, maybe for moral reasons or people thinking that it might be an invasion of privacy.”

 

[del1962]

This is what I meant in my above post. Common frakking knowledge is in the Clinic. Has been for 3 years now. You're trolling dude or so far out of your depth it isn't funny. So which is it? Trolling or you never ever heard about Franck Schleck's payment to Eufemanio Fuentes of 13K Euros?

Let me guess, you've never heard of Fuentes? Or his black book? Or how about Operation Puerto? Ring any bells in that skull of yours? Do everyone a favour, give Doc Brown a call, borrow the Delorean and travel back to 2012 and smack yourself in the face once or twice on the day you decide to open that account on here. That way the forum won't have to have their collective intelligence insulted with this idiocy. You should know very well by now who Fuentes is and that his medical specialty before doping was gynecology.

There are certain things in the Clinic that are considered base knowledge. This is one. Yet again, another pro Sky newbie conveniently doesn't know the basics! And they're not trolling or so we've been told this past 6 months!

Want to know why this thread has so many pages to it? Half the pro Sky posters have been doing this exclusively again, and again and again and again for the last 6 months. 10 pages explaining another well covered thing and then more derailment. It's not like I didn't warn people.

Good luck reading this broken thread with this level of idiocy permeating every second post. If someone cannot get basic info right, do everyone a favour and don't encourage them anymore with a reply. It'd make reading this thread bearable once again.

Anopther insulting post of trolling by you, Schleck has f-all to do with Sky, so someone posts about it, why don't they go post it on a Schleck thread, if you cant do that do us all a favour and shut your keyboard diahorreah up

 

[sniper]

This is what I meant in my above post. Common frakking knowledge is in the Clinic. Has been for 3 years now. You're trolling dude or so far out of your depth it isn't funny. So which is it? Trolling or you never ever heard about Franck Schleck's payment to Eufemanio Fuentes of 13K Euros?

Let me guess, you've never heard of Fuentes? Or his black book? Or how about Operation Puerto? Ring any bells in that skull of yours? Do everyone a favour, give Doc Brown a call, borrow the Delorean and travel back to 2012 and smack yourself in the face once or twice on the day you decide to open that account on here. That way the forum won't have to have their collective intelligence insulted with this idiocy. You should know very well by now who Fuentes is and that his medical specialty before doping was gynecology.

There are certain things in the Clinic that are considered base knowledge. This is one. Yet again, another pro Sky newbie conveniently doesn't know the basics! And they're not trolling or so we've been told this past 6 months!

Want to know why this thread has so many pages to it? Half the pro Sky posters have been doing this exclusively again, and again and again and again for the last 6 months. 10 pages explaining another well covered thing and then more derailment. Then an established forum member, like Libertine has to do yet another in depth post about the same old thing once again. Just a repeating cycle of a pro sky foumist either showing their colossal ignorance, or trolling (take your pick) and then another non stop debate concerning the same mumbo jumbo repeated continuously. It's not like I didn't warn people.

Good luck reading this broken thread with this level of idiocy permeating every second post. If someone cannot get basic info right, do everyone a favour and don't encourage them anymore with a reply. It'd make reading this thread bearable once again. And if a mod has an issue with this, I asked a question. I did not label anyone a troll. I covered all the angles as to what these posts could have been. Either someone needs to brush up on simple Clinic lore, or they are trolling. Take your pick. But it should not be tolerated and encouraged. It gets old having to hear Libertine clarify the obvious with a well thought out and written post, for the pro sky crowd every single day (or whomever else feels obliged).

sadly, you're right. a couple of pro-sky posters here show serious signs of hypersleep.
they remind of that lady who got in a coma one year before the Berlin Wall fell, and woke up one year after it had fallen: the whole world around her had changed, and she wasn't able to grasp it.

you're right to remind us of the trolling. they do it in disguise and it causes a lot of repetitive and circular postings.

 

[del1962]

"Anyone who questions that my favorite rider is clean is probably just jealous and out with a grudge"

Pop quiz.

Which fanboy group and rider popularized this line of flaming?

Do you really have to view everything in the context of Armstrong.

The facts are Wiggin's has written some stuff about Kimmage in his book, which does indicate a tension between them, whether Wiggin's is write or wrong he makes the accusation that Kimmage tried to put words in Wiggan's mouth, not good Journalistic practice if true. If that is flaming then so be it.

 

[sniper]

...
The facts are Wiggin's has written some stuff about Kimmage in his book, which does indicate a tension between them, whether Wiggin's is write or wrong he makes the accusation that Kimmage tried to put words in Wiggan's mouth, not good Journalistic practice if true. If that is flaming then so be it.

fact is:
phat and hein accuse kimmage. lance accused kimmage.
you accuse kimmage if you have something to hide, not if you're clean and want your competitors to be clean.

if I were a clean wiggins, I'd support kimmage in all possible ways, as it would increase the chances of having clean competitors to race against, and would thus increase clean-wiggo's winning chances.

now how hard is it for you to follow this logic?

 

[hondated]

What would be credible is intelligent, independent testing and evidence that noone is too big to fail.

Precisely Exactly what is required to pacify and convince us old cynics.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Who is visiting a gynecologist in Spain?

Ever heard of a guy named Fuentes?

 

[del1962]

Ever heard of a guy named Fuentes?

I am trying to work out why it is relevent in respect to Wiggins or Sky though, in another thread on another team/riders ...........