Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[blackcat]

Thanks, and go ahead, plagiarism is the highest form of flattery.



I'm not so sure, a lot of things can and do go wrong when moving between a controlled environment and real life. It could be that Di Luca discovered this to his detriment. Also the effect you get from such a regime would IMHO be much smaller than in the 90s and early 00. Had Di Luca had a 90s program, I think he would be a few minutes ahead in the giro GC by the time he was kicked out, while all he did now was a few unsuccessful attacks.

no, Ash actually did applied experiments with a bunch of riders and placebos.

could not determine those on the gear. need a qualifier, ALL. or the majority, even monority. he might'a' got one or two flags.

 

[ToreBear]

no, Ash actually did applied experiments with a bunch of riders and placebos.

could not determine those on the gear. need a qualifier, ALL. or the majority, even monority. he might'a' got one or two flags.

Could you be a little less shorthand? I'm not sure if I'm reading you right.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Also the effect you get from such a regime would IMHO be much smaller than in the 90s and early 00.

Been shown to be the opposite, in fact.

 

[blackcat]

Could you be a little less shorthand? I'm not sure if I'm reading you right.

dr michael ashenden did some experiments in real world conditions on the biopassport. specifically, triggering the blood doping threshold/positive.

he found that this was not the panacea it is held out to be, because his results did not demonstrate athletes who were taking epo.

 

[ToreBear]

Been shown to be the opposite, in fact.

That seems very odd, I don't believe it, but knowing you I'll be swamped with a dozen articles, and I have not got the time to look into that.

dr michael ashenden did some experiments in real world conditions on the biopassport. specifically, triggering the blood doping threshold/positive.

he found that this was not the panacea it is held out to be, because his results did not demonstrate athletes who were taking epo.

Yes I haven't gone into the details of his experiment. I think I only read the abstract. The problem is that there is fear involved in real life, and the consequences of a mistake in the experiment for the participant is 0, and I don't think everyone avoided detection by the epo test. The risk is still there, meaning someone would need to be willing to risk all to see if this procedure worked or not. And it might work for some time, but AD procedures are evolving, and the BP is only one part of the picture.

But that the BP alone could not detect doping with his regime is something I find plausible, but the BP evolves, and if it is used in conjunction with other information, it could cause problems for the determined doper. The Ashenden program might have worked for a doper last year, but this year, and the next? That's a risky determination to make.


Sorry if my thoughts are unclear, I'm just following the demos in Istanbul, and laugh every time new Turkish restriction on the sale of alcohol is mentioned as a sign of Islamism(In Norway, its much stricter).

 

[IndianCyclist]

Been shown to be the opposite, in fact.

I can't believe that. How is 64% hematocrit in 90s versus 46-47% now lesser in performance? Also how is liters of blood(vampiric infusion) in the 2000s giving lesser performance than the current methodology of micro dosing?

 

[blackcat]

That seems very odd, I don't believe it, but knowing you I'll be swamped with a dozen articles, and I have not got the time to look into that.

i believe Dear Wiggo is making the [unsaid] point that, the doping is lesser, they have all reduced their programs, you can see the climb times and power outputs on those climbs. so a rider, who has a smart preparatore, and can hoodwink the biopassport, has a massive advantage, if he does not flag the testers.


Dear Wiggo, can you give us a more nuanced explanation pls.

 

[blackcat]

I can't believe that. How is 64% hematocrit in 90s versus 46-47% now lesser in performance? Also how is liters of blood(vampiric infusion) in the 2000s giving lesser performance than the current methodology of micro dosing?

there would be a crit number which is a negative economy, the blood too thick, and oxygen in muscles is not the restricting variable, body cannot exhaust those o2 red blood cells.

also, a 47 crit is sometimes not a 47 crit, with plasma expanders and other stuff to mask the real crit. and other drugs possible to take to make more of you mere 47 crit and make it an effective 47 +10net%

 

[Ripper]

At least the motos could still keep their distance uphill.

Barely ...

 

[heart_attack_man]

What are the chances that now that there has been an announcement from Cookson that he is going to run for President of UCI, that there will be a positive come out of Team Sky in the not-too-distant future (but much closer to election time)?

It would certainly suit Pat to be able to throw either a rider from a British team, or a token British Rider under the bus to suit his political goals...

 

[thehog]

What are the chances that now that there has been an announcement from Cookson that he is going to run for President of UCI, that there will be a positive come out of Team Sky in the not-too-distant future (but much closer to election time)?

It would certainly suit Pat to be able to throw either a rider from a British team, or a token British Rider under the bus to suit his political goals...

I can see the bio profiles being "leaked".

Although it will just make the UCI look stupid for not acting on them.

 

[blackcat]

I can't believe that. How is 64% hematocrit in 90s versus 46-47% now lesser in performance? Also how is liters of blood(vampiric infusion) in the 2000s giving lesser performance than the current methodology of micro dosing?

see the cheeks on mauro santambrogio

compare his full(ish) cheeks, to wiggins and froome and hesjedal and dan martin.

doping has it two speeds. riders who get new stuff, and are on the cutting edge, and the old stuff like testo and epo

 

[JimmyFingers]

plus there was that picture of him last year was it and his face looked completely different

 

[DirtyWorks]

What are the chances that now that there has been an announcement from Cookson that he is going to run for President of UCI, that there will be a positive come out of Team Sky in the not-too-distant future (but much closer to election time)?

It would certainly suit Pat to be able to throw either a rider from a British team, or a token British Rider under the bus to suit his political goals...

I too am looking for some Sky positives. Maybe they'll do something more creative like AAF a guy that left the team. IMHO, the one to watch for is any indications Hein may give regarding the election. He essentially funded McQuaid's first election. As it is, it seems like Pat and Hein are cleaning things up a little before the 100th TdF. It's not 2012, that's for sure.

Just understand that Cookson is already on the management committee and runs both Sky and BC, so not much left to do but be the President of the UCI.

Observing this is so much like Kreminology.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I can see the bio profiles being "leaked".

Although it will just make the UCI look stupid for not acting on them.

And yet, somehow, like Ashenden's feud with the UCI over Armstrong's red hot 2009/10 samples, nothing will come of it. I didn't understand why that story didn't blow up and bring down Hein. It would be more of the same.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

vetooo ‏@ammattipyoraily 2m

#dauphine, stage 3 (32.5 km, itt). Richie porte is going catch alberto contador and pass him. #lol

.. .

 

[Parrulo]

.. .

Mostly because Contador was absolutely crap.

 

[Lanark]

What Porte did today wasn't that extraodinary considering he could time trial as soon as he joined the pro's. There's more reason to bump the Contador thread.

 

[the sceptic]

Weak field today. 4 sky in the top 10

 

[thehog]

Weak field today. 4 sky in the top 10

I'll leave it to McQuaid to sort out.

Time for one of his infamous bio passport investigations.

 

[JimmyFingers]

how was Rogers?

 

[Parrulo]

how was Rogers?

Very bad compared to last year. . .

2:17 down on Martin.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

But rogers is not on sky anymore

 

[thehog]

But rogers is not on sky anymore

In Britan it's known as a p1sstake.

Jimmy knows the next statements from anti-Skybots is -what about Rogers?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Actually genuine question, hadn't seen the results and Rogers' form is relevant