Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

This was lost in the Froome thread but id like to look into it a little more.

Did sloberingham and kerrison just make up that sky invented training methods that have been in use since for ever, and offer this as a reason for Froome being able to match Armstrong?

I'm sure Team Sky have a great laugh when passing off this sort of information!

Most often when climbers make their attacks on a mountain, they do it standing on the pedals to gain the maximum amount of leverage from the arms and upper body. Froome remained seated while making his attack on Contador, however. There is a clear advantage in doing this, Kerrison believes: working in a wind tunnel has shown Sky that there is much less drag when a cyclist remains sitting down. That applies even at relatively low climbing speeds.

Froome's high cadence was surprising, but not rehearsed in training, the race leader said. One explanation is he had no option but to spin the pedals faster because changing on to the larger chainring at the moment of attack brings the risk of derailing the chain and aborting the attack, as Andy Schleck found in 2011. Kerrison adds that about once a week Sky's riders practise riding in the highest cadences they can manage, basically for fun.

 

[Cycle Chic]

and a contradiction. Froome says it was to prevent chain derailing and has only ever ridden Mont ventoux once, with Sean Kelly in The Ride documentary.

and yet Brailsford said in the press conference that he visited Ventoux in training. And now we hear that Sky do the high cadence 'kick' all the time in training.

 

[zlev11]

hahahahahaha

oh my god, is that real?

please tell me you just made those two quotes up

 

[thehog]

hahahahahaha

oh my god, is that real?

please tell me you just made those two quotes up

To me those quotes are an admission of doping!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france

But they only practise it once a week. Just for fun!

 

[Jahudor]

So that means that he should have remainend in his saddle during this attack?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRIAinJo0E

Or is this just a false flat 18% section?

 

[Cobblestones]

Shouldn't that be in the 'How much more ridiculous...' thread? Or the 'Wiggins goes there, Cadence' thread? Ah, fvck it. It's just one huge jump-the-shark fest.

 

[Jahudor]

Shouldn't that be in the 'How much more ridiculous...' thread? Or the 'Wiggins goes there, Cadence' thread? Ah, fvck it. It's just one huge jump-the-shark fest.

Perhaps you are right, but I think it's related to their 'superior training methods'. What these consist of depends on the performance at that particular moment in time. With Wiggins as leader of the team, the approach (and training) consisted of leading the peleton with about 425 Watt during the climbs, to make attacks impossible. Now with Froome as teamleader they suddenly train a lot on intervals. Besides only now they know more about the influence of drag during attack out of the saddle. They didnt know that in 2011 already? Thats not very consistent. I think they use their 'training methods' as a retorical strategy to explain their performance.

 

[Grand Tourist]

To me those quotes are an admission of doping!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/15/team-sky-chris-froome-tour-de-france

But they only practise it once a week. Just for fun!

I enjoyed the astonishing revelation that they got the riders to practice 'sharp accelerations'. No doubt there will be howls of anguish from the other pro tour teams when they find out about this evolution in cycling training.

 

[zalacain]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay48ZWkoeHU
Doesn't he say here he never practised it?
All that product placement wonder how much he got for that?

 

[Jahudor]

I enjoyed the astonishing revelation that they got the riders to practice 'sharp accelerations'. No doubt there will be howls of anguish from the other pro tour teams when they find out about this evolution in cycling training.

Yes, kind of stupid to give away your secrets so easily. I guess however that Froome is already training to brake smootly in the corners of 9% sections, so I guess he still has the edge!

 

[Jahudor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay48ZWkoeHU
Doesn't he say here he never practised it?
All that product placement wonder how much he got for that?

Yes he does say he didn't train specifically on high cadence, but that doesn't rule out the fact that they might train on intervals. I think thats what the Sky team claimed. However, considering all the specialists and scientists involved it is only a matter of time for the inconsistencies to become insurmountable. The inconsistencies between with the scientists claim, with the riders say and how they perform.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I'm pretty sure that what he meant was "Well, duh! The only way you're going to lose weight is through calorie deficit." He mashed up the terms "calorie deficit" and "carb restriction".

I mean, if you lose weight through dietary changes, it's because you're lowering caloric intake. Carb restriction is calorie restriction, if you actully lose weight.

 

[The Death Merchant]

I don't know if someone has wondered this before, but why is Sky using black clothing? If they are supposed to be all about tiniest "marginal gains", then shouldn't they wear white (or some shiny grey) as it reflects the sunlight rather than absorbs it like the black does? Wearing black on hot sunny day will just unnecessarily warm your body compared to white and works as a disadvantage, not a gain.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't know if someone has wondered this before, but why is Sky using black clothing? If they are supposed to be all about tiniest "marginal gains", then shouldn't they wear white (or some shiny grey) as it reflects the sunlight rather than absorbs it like the black does? Wearing black on hot sunny day will just unnecessarily warm your body compared to white and works as a disadvantage, not a gain.

Here's some Brailsford science for you: The black is used because it contributes to developing an envelope of warm air. As all scientists know, a body moving through warm air expends less energy at the same velocity than cold/cool. Your explanation is pseudo-science.

Just one of Sky's many marginal gains that enables Froome to destroy the peloton like he's a pro visiting the local cafe run.

 

[Panda Claws]

I don't know if someone has wondered this before, but why is Sky using black clothing? If they are supposed to be all about tiniest "marginal gains", then shouldn't they wear white (or some shiny grey) as it reflects the sunlight rather than absorbs it like the black does? Wearing black on hot sunny day will just unnecessarily warm your body compared to white and works as a disadvantage, not a gain.

Tell that to FDJ.

 

[User Guide]

I don't know if someone has wondered this before, but why is Sky using black clothing? If they are supposed to be all about tiniest "marginal gains", then shouldn't they wear white (or some shiny grey) as it reflects the sunlight rather than absorbs it like the black does? Wearing black on hot sunny day will just unnecessarily warm your body compared to white and works as a disadvantage, not a gain.

Its not quite that simple as black radiates heat better too.And you have a major heat source in the rider.Plenty of people/cultures/tribes wear black in extremely hot countries.

 

[simo1733]

Here's some Brailsford science for you: The black is used because it contributes to developing an envelope of warm air. As all scientists know, a body moving through warm air expends less energy at the same velocity than cold/cool. Your explanation is pseudo-science.

Just one of Sky's many marginal gains that enables Froome to destroy the peloton like he's a pro visiting the local cafe run.

It's a material called "Cool Black" It is claimed to lower temperature.

 

[Alex76]

Rubbish,
As a young man Sir Dave would spend hours watching his favourite film 'men in black'.
That's the reason.

 

[cyclogenesis]

Its not quite that simple as black radiates heat better too.And you have a major heat source in the rider.Plenty of people/cultures/tribes wear black in extremely hot countries.

Exactly.. Plus at those speeds the radiant heat term will be small compared to the energy balance between calorie burn and evaporative (wind!) cooling..

And if you look closer the kit is almost a mesh.. gota breathe!

 

[lemoogle]

Its not quite that simple as black radiates heat better too.And you have a major heat source in the rider.Plenty of people/cultures/tribes wear black in extremely hot countries.

Pretty sure they only wear black when wearing multiple layers and/or loose clothing to protect themselves from the heat i.e. they would never wear a black t-shirt and nothing else.

 

[Catwhoorg]

It's a material called "Cool Black" It is claimed to lower temperature.

Highly absorbant in the visible.
Much more transparent in the IR part of the spectrum.

There are a few companies that make such a product around. Mostly based on the same sort of pigment technology.

One such example linked here from BASF

 

[DirtyWorks]

Exactly.. Plus at those speeds the radiant heat term will be small compared to the energy balance between calorie burn and evaporative (wind!) cooling..

And if you look closer the kit is almost a mesh.. gota breathe!

Marginal gains, am I right?

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

found this on WeightWeenies forum

I bet Sky is on something, but its not illegal and probably not pharmacological and their edge comes from properly manipulating it. Think of it this way:

-People know that training at altitude can stimulate red blood cell production. People also know that it can temporarily lower power output. Training in the mountains also involves a very specific neuromuscular type of effort....

Except the rule is train at sea level, sleep at altitude.

All training at altitude does is reduce available oxygen. You don't have to go to the mountains for that, just tape your mouth closed.

 

[Granville57]

I don't know if someone has wondered this before, but why is Sky using black clothing? If they are supposed to be all about tiniest "marginal gains", then shouldn't they wear white (or some shiny grey) as it reflects the sunlight rather than absorbs it like the black does? Wearing black on hot sunny day will just unnecessarily warm your body compared to white and works as a disadvantage, not a gain.

Been discussed previously:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=11767
Black vs White Clothing- Performance?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Except the rule is train at sea level, sleep at altitude.

All training at altitude does is reduce available oxygen. You don't have to go to the mountains for that, just tape your mouth closed.

The whole concept of altitude training was recently reviewed in a meta study and only found statistically significant results above some ridiculously high altitude. That effective altitude created other constraints on training. I don't have the link handy.

Bottom line, it invalidated the idea training on Tenerife while living on bread and water, sleep at some high altitude was independently beneficial.