Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[MatParker117]

IME Skybots don't care about evidence one wit. Incontrovertible proof or GTFO seems the usual request.

Because everytime people like me ask for any kind of evidence we get insulted, called various stupid names and the same BS repeated verbatim.

 

[MatParker117]

The answers:

No, becuase there are only three gold medallists of the modern era. A set too small to be statistically relevant. However, a silver medallist came eighth in the Giro

Yes. Evans had an almost indentical seaon the year before. And you don't 'peak' for a whole month to win the Tour of Romandie - just for a couple of days

Because they didn't have any decent riders. Their leader was Jani Brajkovic.

Lemond was also a IP medalist on the track.

 

[Parker]

Lemond was also a IP medalist on the track.

Was he? Are you sure?

I was taking 'modern' as 1996 onwards (when the Olympics went pro)

Plenty of pursuiters from history won GTs. Of modern guys Rohan Dennis will be a contender I think, but team pursuit is now moving to more sprinter types.

 

[Benotti69]

Lemond was also a IP medalist on the track.

LeMond also showed GT potential at 19. Wigans at 29.

 

[MatParker117]

Was he? Are you sure?

I was taking 'modern' as 1996 onwards (when the Olympics went pro)

Plenty of pursuiters from history won GTs. Of modern guys Rohan Dennis will be a contender I think, but team pursuit is now moving to more sprinter types.

My apologies he won a junior worlds silver in 79.

 

[thehog]

Was he? Are you sure?

I was taking 'modern' as 1996 onwards (when the Olympics went pro)

Plenty of pursuiters from history won GTs. Of modern guys Rohan Dennis will be a contender I think, but team pursuit is now moving to more sprinter types.

1896 is when the first "modern" Olympics were held.

What's this 1996 business? Making up selective ranges again? Prior to 1996 you were allowed to swap between amateur and professional status.

 

[TailWindHome]

pretty simple once you have that big engine to race for 4kms then extend it to 4000kms

No
You don't need to extend it to 4000kms
You need it to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Unless it's a 1 week race - then it's 1 maybe 2 efforts over 1 week

 

[thehog]

No
You don't need to extend it to 4000kms
You need it to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Unless it's a 1 week race - then it's 1 maybe 2 efforts over 1 week

You need to climb up mountains as well. Apparently. Last time I checked there are no mountains on a track unless you include the steepness of banking

 

[TailWindHome]

You need to climb up mountains as well. Apparently. Last time I checked there are no mountains on a track unless you include the steepness of banking

Luckily there are roads up the mountains so the bicycle can be pedalled as per the track. Some of the more expensive machines have 20 gears.
Amazing stuff

 

[thehog]

Luckily there are roads up the mountains so the bicycle can be pedalled as per the track. Some of the more expensive machines have 20 gears.
Amazing stuff

22 gears. 11 speed rear is now the de facto standard. Stick with the times wouldya.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

This isn't meant to be too serious...

There are two riders (LeMond and Mig) who've won the Tour de l'Avenir since 1979 who've subsequently won the Tour de France. This is the same number of riders (LeMond and Wiggo) who have medalled in the World Junior IP and then won the Tour de France.

So maybe being a good junior pursuiter is not such a bad indicator of Tour potential. Or maybe the Tour de l'Avenir is rather misnamed, as it's not a very good predictor either.

 

[The Hitch]

No
You don't need to extend it to 4000kms
You need it to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Good god

That is some astonishing ignorance.

Ironically ebandit made this same idiotic comment (while hijacked by joachim).

If you ever strayed outside of this subforum, read some actual interviews with domestiques, gt contenders, coaches, damn near anyone in the sport, you might realize how stupid what you just said is.

Every gt rider is pretty clear about having to be on top form for every stage in a gt (including wiggins who said he has to be 90% every day). No one just coasts along 2500km of flat in a gt. It would totally defeat the purpose of the flat being there.

No, gt riders do not just ride dozen 45 minute efforts. They ride the complete thing and every cm they go over contributes to the exhaustion.

 

[TailWindHome]

If you ever strayed outside of this subforum.

Bzzzzt!

Nice deployment of the ol' # 55

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1625373&postcount=55



And yes. I did say GT contenders just 'coast' along.

 

[Netserk]

This isn't meant to be too serious...

There are two riders (LeMond and Mig) who've won the Tour de l'Avenir since 1979 who've subsequently won the Tour de France. This is the same number of riders (LeMond and Wiggo) who have medalled in the World Junior IP and then won the Tour de France.

So maybe being a good junior pursuiter is not such a bad indicator of Tour potential. Or maybe the Tour de l'Avenir is rather misnamed, as it's not a very good predictor either.

Wouldn't it be fairer to compare podium vs podium and not podium vs. win?



How many riders who have podiumed Avenir has podiumed a GT?

How many riders who have podiumed the World Junior IP has podiumed a GT?

PS: Why didn't Fignon count?

 

[Benotti69]

No
You don't need to extend it to 4000kms
You need it to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Unless it's a 1 week race - then it's 1 maybe 2 efforts over 1 week

sssh dont tell the rest of the peloton or they will all be willing.

You have no understanding of racing GTs

 

[Benotti69]

Bzzzzt!

Nice deployment of the ol' # 55

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1625373&postcount=55



And yes. I did say GT contenders just 'coast' along.

way to ingore reality. that tailwind blew right past you.

 

[The Hitch]

Bzzzzt!

Nice deployment of the ol' # 55

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1625373&postcount=55



And yes. I did say GT contenders just 'coast' along.

You said that all a gt rider needs is to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Which is extremely ignorant and totally false. And not surprising that your only defense is deflection.

 

[TailWindHome]

You said that all a gt rider needs is to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Which is extremely ignorant and totally false. And not surprising that your only defense is deflection.

No.
You added the 'all'

 

[djpbaltimore]

You said that all a gt rider needs is to be able to do a dozen or so 45-60 min efforts over a 3 week period.

Which is extremely ignorant and totally false. And not surprising that your only defense is deflection.

The context of the quote is clearly in regards to the big efforts required for a rider to succeed in a GT, not the ONLY thing needed. The physiologic data we receive from selected riders in the TDF during the flat stages seem to indicate that they are not going full gas much of the time. You may have a good debate over how much recovery and mental/ physical endurance effect those maximal efforts in a GT, but twisting words to try to paint another poster as ignorant isn't really necessary.

 

[roundabout]

However, a silver medallist came eighth in the Giro

ok, that one was pretty funny.

 

[gillan1969]

This isn't meant to be too serious...

There are two riders (LeMond and Mig) who've won the Tour de l'Avenir since 1979 who've subsequently won the Tour de France. This is the same number of riders (LeMond and Wiggo) who have medalled in the World Junior IP and then won the Tour de France.

So maybe being a good junior pursuiter is not such a bad indicator of Tour potential. Or maybe the Tour de l'Avenir is rather misnamed, as it's not a very good predictor either.

lemond won the gold in the road race race at the same champs in '79...he probably rode the pursuit for fun...when you're that good you can win anything at that age...he also got a silver...so three medals

so totally outperforms Wiggins at same age...totally different ballpark

and...well...as for Froome's early career ;-)

 

[thehog]

ok, that one was pretty funny.

7 dopers ahead of him including Cioni. McGee at the time claimed he was going to win the 2005 Tour! Hurt his back planting an olive tree in his back garden that year... or hiding drugs depending on the version you prefer.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

PS: Why didn't Fignon count?

Fignon won L'Avenir after his 2 Tour victories. I deliberately worded my post so that the relationship was Tour win follows L'Avenir win, not just riders who've won both. I did say it wasn't to be taken too seriously.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

so totally outperforms Wiggins at same age...totally different ballpark

and...well...as for Froome's early career ;-)

I was commenting on the relative merits of the Junior IP and the Tour de l'Avenir as predictors of subsequently winning the Tour.

I wasn't comparing Wiggo to LeMond and I don't think Froome has ridden a pursuit or l'Avenir, so he's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Benotti69]

The context of the quote is clearly in regards to the big efforts required for a rider to succeed in a GT, not the ONLY thing needed. The physiologic data we receive from selected riders in the TDF during the flat stages seem to indicate that they are not going full gas much of the time. You may have a good debate over how much recovery and mental/ physical endurance effect those maximal efforts in a GT, but twisting words to try to paint another poster as ignorant isn't really necessary.

Way to go attacking the wrong poster for obfuscation.