- May 26, 2010
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anyone recognise this rider warming up/down?
http://www.grazia.fr/article/tour-de-france-selon-sebastiao-salgado-une-expo-a-ne-pas-manquer-a-la-galerie-polka-820466
More evidence that Sky's claims they reinvented cycling are lies.
http://www.grazia.fr/article/tour-de-france-selon-sebastiao-salgado-une-expo-a-ne-pas-manquer-a-la-galerie-polka-820466
More evidence that Sky's claims they reinvented cycling are lies.
- Jul 30, 2009
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Re: Re:
Hyperbole with Ricco. But if Thomas responds so well to whatever he was allegedly fed in 2015 then how do you explain Sky's failure to repeat those levels of performance and make him go for a GT victory?
And as for the Sky train it can hardly be surprising to anyone that the team with the strongest, best paid mountain domestiques had many team members left at the top of the last climb as part of 20+ riders who were still in contact? There are grounds for being suspicious of any team or individual that leads the pack but today wasn't a day to cause concern for me.
The Hitch said:
Hyperbole with Ricco. But if Thomas responds so well to whatever he was allegedly fed in 2015 then how do you explain Sky's failure to repeat those levels of performance and make him go for a GT victory?
And as for the Sky train it can hardly be surprising to anyone that the team with the strongest, best paid mountain domestiques had many team members left at the top of the last climb as part of 20+ riders who were still in contact? There are grounds for being suspicious of any team or individual that leads the pack but today wasn't a day to cause concern for me.
The SKY team looks more and more like the US Postal team a decade ago...They are all doped no question about it...sad sad!!
- Feb 10, 2010
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Re: Sky
For example, in France, the use of some drugs is a penal/criminal offense (basically, it's the same set of laws that they use against dopers than when hunting people smoking/selling pot/cocaine... : "infraction à la législation sur les stupéfiants". Mild cases are droped, severe ones end in jail).
That's why in 1998 it was the police who took the matter in its hands and not an anti-doping agency - they were dopers, but more than that, from a legal PoV, they were commiting penal offenses.
Now it depends what drugs are used, how they came into possession of the dopers and if it's "organized" or individual doping. But there is no doubt that what Bruyneel/Armstrong did could (from a theoretical/legal PoV) have sent them in a French jail.
That does definitely not mean that TdF is clean - just that there is a bit more risks than in other countries.
That's why I really, really dislike the fact that this year both rest days are outside of France.
Depending on what exactly happened, and in which country you are, it can be.
For example, in France, the use of some drugs is a penal/criminal offense (basically, it's the same set of laws that they use against dopers than when hunting people smoking/selling pot/cocaine... : "infraction à la législation sur les stupéfiants". Mild cases are droped, severe ones end in jail).
That's why in 1998 it was the police who took the matter in its hands and not an anti-doping agency - they were dopers, but more than that, from a legal PoV, they were commiting penal offenses.
Now it depends what drugs are used, how they came into possession of the dopers and if it's "organized" or individual doping. But there is no doubt that what Bruyneel/Armstrong did could (from a theoretical/legal PoV) have sent them in a French jail.
That does definitely not mean that TdF is clean - just that there is a bit more risks than in other countries.
That's why I really, really dislike the fact that this year both rest days are outside of France.
thehog
BANNED
- Jul 27, 2009
- 31,285
- 2
- 22,485
Re: Sky
Its beyond absurd by Brailsford. Have you seen the UCI check bikes? They walk up to the bus and scan the bikes or atop the car. That's it. How would they not be cooperative? Or is Brailsford suggesting other teams are hiding their bikes?
I also can't imagine the UCI randomly sending an email to Sky saying, "Hi Dave, thanks for being awesome, cheers Brian", it sounds ridiculous.
Not sure why he was being so defensive.
MartinGT said:
Its beyond absurd by Brailsford. Have you seen the UCI check bikes? They walk up to the bus and scan the bikes or atop the car. That's it. How would they not be cooperative? Or is Brailsford suggesting other teams are hiding their bikes?
I also can't imagine the UCI randomly sending an email to Sky saying, "Hi Dave, thanks for being awesome, cheers Brian", it sounds ridiculous.
Not sure why he was being so defensive.
Re: Sky
As Willy Voet learned, bringing drugs across borders can be a criminal offence in itself.
Broken_Leg said:
As Willy Voet learned, bringing drugs across borders can be a criminal offence in itself.
Sorry to backtrack so far but what happened to Wiggins? Is it normal for a rider to dominate a TDF and then basically disappear from pro cycling afterwards? I assumed that he was just too stressed out from the whole experience (doping, having to lie) as it was so clear how frustrated and unhappy he was. Is it basically common knowledge here that he gave up on the Tour due to all the stress?
Walsh's comments made arlier this year on mechanical doping and sky.
“In 2013 I spent time inside Team Sky, and I heard people within the team say that they thought mechanical doping was possible and they had heard things. I know that Chris Froome, with whom I’d worked on his autobiography, had always feared that mechanical doping was out there.”
“I did hear a story recently about a manufacturer who was showing some top teams bikes that had motors in them, and one of the teams expressed a lot of interest in buying some. Now, the guy selling them didn’t know why they wanted them, he just didn’t think it was a good idea selling them to a professional team.”
“When you consider what they may be able to do with motors in bikes that can be switched on by remote control, or by somebody away from the bike at a certain point in the race, you think wow, is there going to be no end to the possibilities to cheat and get away with it? And it's something that we can’t be sure the authorities can control properly.”
“The UCI didn’t tell us about doping in the peloton in 1999 with their haematocrit levels, why would they tell us now if they don’t think they can detect it?”
Then you have Brailsford's recent comments on BBC Radio 5 about the prospect of mechanical doping within the peleton when he said that the talk of motors seemed so ridiculous and that he was shocked when the Belgian girl was caught with a motor. The audio appears to have since been taken down from the BBC radio 5 podcasts, here was the initial link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zxw1s
So basically Walsh said that Froome had feared mechanical doping and that others in the team had thought that it was possible. Yet the team principal thought it was ridiculous and was shocked when the Belgian girl was caught. Just another example of the lies, inconsistencies and spin from Brailsford. But David Walsh's attitude appears to be nothing to see here, lets move on quickly! Might even get a nice thank you letter from Uncle Brian at the UCI praising them for their co-operation.
“In 2013 I spent time inside Team Sky, and I heard people within the team say that they thought mechanical doping was possible and they had heard things. I know that Chris Froome, with whom I’d worked on his autobiography, had always feared that mechanical doping was out there.”
“I did hear a story recently about a manufacturer who was showing some top teams bikes that had motors in them, and one of the teams expressed a lot of interest in buying some. Now, the guy selling them didn’t know why they wanted them, he just didn’t think it was a good idea selling them to a professional team.”
“When you consider what they may be able to do with motors in bikes that can be switched on by remote control, or by somebody away from the bike at a certain point in the race, you think wow, is there going to be no end to the possibilities to cheat and get away with it? And it's something that we can’t be sure the authorities can control properly.”
“The UCI didn’t tell us about doping in the peloton in 1999 with their haematocrit levels, why would they tell us now if they don’t think they can detect it?”
Then you have Brailsford's recent comments on BBC Radio 5 about the prospect of mechanical doping within the peleton when he said that the talk of motors seemed so ridiculous and that he was shocked when the Belgian girl was caught with a motor. The audio appears to have since been taken down from the BBC radio 5 podcasts, here was the initial link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03zxw1s
So basically Walsh said that Froome had feared mechanical doping and that others in the team had thought that it was possible. Yet the team principal thought it was ridiculous and was shocked when the Belgian girl was caught. Just another example of the lies, inconsistencies and spin from Brailsford. But David Walsh's attitude appears to be nothing to see here, lets move on quickly! Might even get a nice thank you letter from Uncle Brian at the UCI praising them for their co-operation.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Re:
Stress? Do you mean like the stress your body takes from grand tour doping?
Wiggo seems to have managed the transition to national-elite much better than say, Chris Horner. He's useful in the UCI's current fraud scheme. Chris did not follow the UCI's doping denial playbook.
An actual clean grand tour podium rider would pretty much clean up on the track, and national-level anything.
spiritualride said:
Stress? Do you mean like the stress your body takes from grand tour doping?
Wiggo seems to have managed the transition to national-elite much better than say, Chris Horner. He's useful in the UCI's current fraud scheme. Chris did not follow the UCI's doping denial playbook.
An actual clean grand tour podium rider would pretty much clean up on the track, and national-level anything.
- Feb 10, 2010
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Re: Sky
The one way doping has been criminalized is through catching people on the border of a country with undeclared medicine. That's it. We have Willy Voet and Anthony Galea as two examples. The famous BALCO case was not about doping per se. It was undeclared income that got everyone in trouble. One Spanish doctor has been taken to trial and got off almost without charges. (Fuentes)
The point is not that doping needs to be criminalized. It doesn't because it won't work. What needs to happen is the federations need to stop enabling doping. We have ample evidence they do this.
In Sky's case, we're back to the UCI and ASO creating revenue by permitting doping as they did with USPS, only this time, it's worked out much better. They got a huge revenue boost from the London Games and taxpayers are paying for ASO events while ASO sells the media. The UCI is not left out of these revenue streams.
Broken_Leg said:
The one way doping has been criminalized is through catching people on the border of a country with undeclared medicine. That's it. We have Willy Voet and Anthony Galea as two examples. The famous BALCO case was not about doping per se. It was undeclared income that got everyone in trouble. One Spanish doctor has been taken to trial and got off almost without charges. (Fuentes)
The point is not that doping needs to be criminalized. It doesn't because it won't work. What needs to happen is the federations need to stop enabling doping. We have ample evidence they do this.
In Sky's case, we're back to the UCI and ASO creating revenue by permitting doping as they did with USPS, only this time, it's worked out much better. They got a huge revenue boost from the London Games and taxpayers are paying for ASO events while ASO sells the media. The UCI is not left out of these revenue streams.
in the context of criminalizing peds, here's a pic Sky apparently couldn't find when they screened De Jongh. 
It's 1998, De Jongh (TVM) getting his ass taken into French custody (where he spent the night together with his buddy Knaven).
some background reading: http://www.dopeology.org/teams/TVM-Farm-Frites/
Isn't it just heart warming how Sky gave De Jongh and Knaven a chance to redeem themselves.
It's 1998, De Jongh (TVM) getting his ass taken into French custody (where he spent the night together with his buddy Knaven).
some background reading: http://www.dopeology.org/teams/TVM-Farm-Frites/
Isn't it just heart warming how Sky gave De Jongh and Knaven a chance to redeem themselves.
Re:
Fact is, Brailsford just *loves* guys who've been taken into custody.
Knaven, De Jongh, Sciandri, Millar. And wait, wasn't he taken into custody himself, too? Jeez. What are the odds.
that's possible, I don't know the details, but I'll check.ebandit said:
Fact is, Brailsford just *loves* guys who've been taken into custody.
Knaven, De Jongh, Sciandri, Millar. And wait, wasn't he taken into custody himself, too? Jeez. What are the odds.
None of TVM’s riders was prosecuted, a deliberate tactic by the authorities to encourage them instead to be truthful about their suppliers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2984471/Sky-face-troubling-questions-coach-court-documents-leave-Brailsford-s-zero-tolerance-policy-pressure.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2984471/Sky-face-troubling-questions-coach-court-documents-leave-Brailsford-s-zero-tolerance-policy-pressure.html
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