Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Parker]

And lost more than 14 minutes on the next stage, to Jafferau.
Actually the Jafferau stage was very hard, similar to today. That day he was dropped at the bottom of Finestre. Today he was flying up the Stelvio. Not that I'm complaining btw, as he helped Tao massively, but let's not act like this is a normal performance, especially if this is true:

Yes, but he was up there. And he was still 18th that day. The idea that a double World TT champion with proven climbing ability can do a one-off performance like that isn't really that surprising.

 

[SafeBet]

One thing for sure. If Ineos was left behind in the arm's race at the Tour that's not the case anymore. I'm expecting big things for Saturday.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, but he was up there. The idea that a double World TT champion with proven climbing ability can do a one-off performance like that isn't really that surprising.

He was 7th because the field wasn't that deep, there had been 2 ITTs, etc.

He didn't get top 15 in a single significant mountain stage in the Giro.

Now he murders everyone on the biggest climb of the lot after being in a breakaway yesterday, where by the way, he got dropped like a stone.

If that's not surprising to you, then the word surprise has lost any meaning.

 

[Red Rick]

One thing for sure. If Ineos was left behind in the arm's race at the Tour that's not the case anymore. I'm expecting big things for Saturday.

Betting the house on Carapaz for the Vuelta.

 

[Forever The Best]

Yeah, being 18th is massively different than dropping every GC contender bar 2 on the hardest climb of the race.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, being 18th is massively different than dropping every GC contender bar 2 on the hardest climb of the race.

I think it's time to compile a list of guys who have been 18th in a GT mountain stage before.

 

[Parker]

Yeah, being 18th is massively different than dropping every GC contender bar 2 on the hardest climb of the race.

There's also a massive between those GC contenders who care about when finish and DEnnis who doesn't. If you think it is baffling that a double World TT champion who has come second in the Tour of Switzerland can do a big mid-stage climbing performance for an hour then you're probably baffled by the entire sport.

 

[Red Rick]

There's also a massive between those GC contenders who care about when finish and DEnnis who doesn't. If you think it is baffling that a double World TT champion who has come second in the Tour of Switzerland can do a big mid-stage climbing performance for an hour then you're probably baffled by the entire sport.

On one hand there is big.

One the other hand there is "historical"

It's like Usain Bolt competing with the best on the 800-1500m

 

[Forever The Best]

While his performance at last years Tour de Suisse was good, the field was weak apart from Bernal. And it was a 9-day race, not near the end of a 3-week GT. And this years Giro does not have a weak field, the climbing times are very fast.
EDIT: Red Rick explained it better.

 

[Parker]

On one hand there is big.

One the other hand there is "historical"

It's like Usain Bolt competing with the best on the 800-1500m

No it isn't. Dennis rides stages like this all the time. It's more like an 800m champion pacemaking at world record pace for 1000m in a 1500m

It appears to me that most of your suspicions, which seem to arise on a daily basis, are mostly based in a very limited and one dimensional understanding of the sport.

 

[BlueRoads]

He was leading Hart and Hindley up the Stelvio - not Carapaz, not Bernal, not Thomas. Not Yates (or Roglic). And he did not have to do the final climb on the front.
I don't know the pure numbers, but maybe this year is just a very weak field (after the dropouts). It sure looks like one to me.
Whatever went wrong with Nibali he is the only really big name left behind.

 

[Red Rick]

He was leading Hart and Hindley up the Stelvio - not Carapaz, not Bernal, not Thomas. Not Yates (or Roglic). And he did not have to do the final climb on the front.
I don't know the pure numbers, but maybe this year is just a very weak field (after the dropouts). It sure looks like one to me.
Whatever went wrong with Nibali he is the only really big name left behind.

1600 VAM for 69 minutes at super high altitude.

It's like Bernal at the Iseran for twice as long. And Bernal was a minute faster than everyone else.

 

[Parker]

While his performance at last years Tour de Suisse was good, the field was weak apart from Bernal. And it was a 9-day race, not near the end of a 3-week GT. And this years Giro does not have a weak field, the climbing times are very fast.
EDIT: Red Rick explained it better.

Apart from Nibali, none of the top ten today have been on the podium of a GT and they have one stage win between them prior to this race.

 

[fbjim]

That was less believable than Pogacar on PDBF.


Does not bode well for the 2021 Tour.

 

[fbjim]

While his performance at last years Tour de Suisse was good, the field was weak apart from Bernal. And it was a 9-day race, not near the end of a 3-week GT. And this years Giro does not have a weak field, the climbing times are very fast.
EDIT: Red Rick explained it better.

Also: Bernal was leading the TDS and just had to mark Dennis.

 

[SafeBet]

I think it's time to compile a list of guys who have been 18th in a GT mountain stage before.

Aurelien Paret-Peintre has joined the club today.

 

[Red Rick]

Aurelien Paret-Peintre has joined the club today.

When he breaks Heras' record on the Angliru we'll be idiots for not seeing it coming.

 

[Parker]

How many times do people have to get shocked by a top level Time Triallist doing a big one-off domestique performance in the mountains before you realise it's quite usual?

 

[PhiLiz]

1600 VAM for 69 minutes at super high altitude.

It's like Bernal at the Iseran for twice as long. And Bernal was a minute faster than everyone else.

Oh, don't be mean. You know how the Sky fans get when you talk numbers that crush their logic.

 

[PhiLiz]

How many times do people have to get shocked by a top level Time Triallist doing a big one-off domestique performance in the mountains before you realise it's quite usual?

Can you please give us another equivalent performance, then?

 

[roundabout]

yeah, there were only 2 riders with Dennis at the top, 3 riders within 1 minute, 5 within 2 minutes, 6 within 3, 7th after Dennis was at 3 and 3 quarter minutes behind.

I mean sure, Stelvio is a brutal climb, but this was something else entirely

Edit: may have missed Novak, but that doesn't change anything

 

[Parker]

Can you please give us another equivalent performance, then?

Not equivalent to that. but this is a weak field in an unusual year. And GC riders rarely make their move before the final climb anyway.
But anytime Cancellara, Van Aert, Kwaitkowski etc starts dropping GC riders the Clinic shouts 'Doping, how is this possible?' If you can't understand how something has happened you have to consider that the fault may be with you understanding.

 

[BlueRoads]

I am anything but an Ineos fan... but please look at the riders he left behind (and then compare them to the ones he competed with during the TdS '19).
If this was a performance better than Pogacar on PdBF, then Hindley is the next Lance Armstrong.

 

[ice&fire]

They're two months late to the game. It will be interesting to see if Carapaz & Co. is on the same diet when the longer climbs come in the Vuelta.

 

[DFA123]

I am anything but an Ineos fan... but please look at the riders he left behind (and then compare them to the ones he competed with during the TdS '19).
If this was a performance better than Pogacar on PdBF, then Hindley is the next Lance Armstrong.

It's not a better peformance than Pogacar on PdBF, but it's more ridiculous. Because Dennis is not a super talented and rapidly improving 21 year old whose potential is still unknown. He's a 30 year old time triallist, who had been around for years, and has never done anything of note before in high mountains. Suddenly he joins Sky, and he's dropping nearly everyone on the Stelvio.