Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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F

Ferminal

Jul 3, 2009
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coinneach said:
It strikes me as this forum preaches to the converted and the volume of innuendo confirms suspicions BUT that doesn't make it right.

There are so many falsehoods in the 128 pages that it would take hours and hours to correct them all.

I would just say, someone has to win the tour, and by this stage, the winner often comes from the team that is strongest.

Sky do ride like US Postal, but that's because US Postal were the strongest team (for whatever reasons) AND because it's the best way to win the tour if your leader is the best Time Trialist.

There is nothing in their style or development that proves doping or even suggests it (apart from the rapid improvement of Froome, which is explained by his recovery from a parasitic illness). Cavendish has not improved coming over to them.

I know we have all been fooled before but what is the point of following a sport if all you are going to do is shout "booo"? I hate the company SKY, and how money can be used to buy success but Wiggins and the cycling team has given me a real thrill this year. I am sorry for those fans "addicted to doping" so much they can't enjoy it.
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Froome's climbing provides me with plenty of enjoyment, that does not preclude me from believing he's a doper.
 
the asian

the asian

Jan 20, 2011
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Mellow Velo said:
You must be talking about the ATOC and TDU. Those Grand Tours.

If 7 straight years of Lance strangling the Tour led to increased interest and revenue.
Indurain was no Pantani in motion, either.

I doubt the likes of those guys winning will be much of a commercial set back.
Sad maybe, but true.



LOL, just LOL.
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Neither OGE nor any American Team seems to be currently engaged in doping in the scale of SKY. What makes you think they won't try to match Sky's programs? In the USPS era we saw T Mobile, Saunier Duval trying match it.
 
C

coinneach

Jul 22, 2011
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BroDeal said:
How many long time trials has that best time trialist won?
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1 so far. By describing him as best, I was meaning that TT was his strength, not that he was best in the world. He probably is in this tour, but with Cancellara & Martin otherwise engaged, that's no surprise, and, as I said, someone has to win...they can't all have won before. Given the competition left, I expect he could win the last one as well, though he may not need to at this rate.
 
taiwan

taiwan

Aug 18, 2009
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samerics said:
In the interest of balance, both Wiggins and Evans were dominant in other disciplines in their younger years, so neither of them came on strong at a later age, just changed emphasis, still had the engines. Just saying!
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Serious question: precedents for track pursuiters being/becoming GC riders? With my limited knowledge I can only get Moser and Boardman. Not that many mountain bikers either apart form Evans though - there are Peraud and Kessiakoff currently.

Instinctively track pursuit is a very different sort of phyical demand, more so than XC MTB.
 
M

Mellow Velo

Mar 11, 2009
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the asian said:
Neither OGE nor any American Team seems to be currently engaged in doping in the scale of SKY. What makes you think they won't try to match Sky's programs? In the USPS era we saw T Mobile, Saunier Duval trying match it.
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That's a guess, right?
Hammer another ill fitting piece into the jigsaw.
OGE: Nobody, including Sky can drop Albasini, at Catalunya.
Simon Gerrans: Couldn't win a lottery if he held all the tickets, while at Sky, wins the TDU and Milan San Remo, as soon as he joins OGE.
Predicted to be unable to win many races with their roster turn out to be one of the most successful teams.

As for the US, I'm happy to take young TJ's performance on face value.
Evans 2012, just isn't the Evans of 2011. It's happened to him before.

And then there's the flying French, who seem to be untouchable.
 
luckyboy

luckyboy

May 26, 2009
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lol

AxqwpZVCQAACYd4.jpg
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
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180mmCrank said:
So I am reading a lot of

"They must be doping...it isn't possible... We all know ... Etc etc"

I may be missing something but I am not seeing or hearing any evidence. And I have plenty of sympathy for those fans of cycling who have been let down so many times in the past ... I am one of them too!! AND that is certainly reason enough to be suspicious - no complaints from me.

The bit I struggle with is the total disregard for any possibility that they may be doing this without cheating... Because there doesn't seem to be any real evidence. I will be both happy and disappointed to be pointed in the direction of something a little more concrete.

I have my flame proof jacket on :)

T
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To me it comes down to three things.

1)
As you say skepticism do to a history where fully half the time between 1995 and 2010, the person on any step on the podium has been actually convicted of doping (2/3 of the time if Armstrong is convicted). No disagreement there.

2)
Specifically for Wiggins he scored a 5 on the leaked UCI suspicion list, Rogers scored a 7. That might no be flat out proof, but given point 1 innocent explanations are rarely the first to my mind.

3)
If Wiggins wins he'll join a rather select company (Indurain, Riis, Armstrong and Landis) as Tour winners who showed zero early talent as GT contenders. Before the invention of EPO, that kind of transformation simply did not occur. Every Tour winner from WW2 to 1990 finished in the top 15 of their first couble of GTs, save one who pulled a Oscar Perioro like win.

Sure Wiggins used to be track focused and sure he lost a lot of weight, and I might buy that this would makle him a much better climber, but why does it make him a better TT guy to - even it seems in the very short TT's that used to be his specialty? All at an age where dramatic improvements wouldn't normally occur?

To me thate's only 2 possible explanation, one being that he started on, or improved on his doping program, and the other being that the Peleton has gotten so much cleaner that Wiggins simply seemed to have improved exponentially by comparison, but given point 1+2 I'd bet a considerable sum of money on the former.
 
K

Krebs cycle

Jul 19, 2009
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Cerberus said:
3)
If Wiggins wins he'll join a rather select company (Indurain, Riis, Armstrong and Landis) as Tour winners who showed zero early talent as GT contenders. Before the invention of EPO, that kind of transformation simply did not occur. Every Tour winner from WW2 to 1990 finished in the top 15 of their first couble of GTs, save one who pulled a Oscar Perioro like win.

Sure Wiggins used to be track focused and sure he lost a lot of weight, and I might buy that this would makle him a much better climber, but why does it make him a better TT guy to - even it seems in the very short TT's that used to be his specialty? All at an age where dramatic improvements wouldn't normally occur?
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Can you explain why a world class pursuit rider cannot become a world class road time trialist and why a world class road time trialist cannot become a GC contender?

If these 3 events are SO incompatible then we would expect there to be little cross over either way. We would not expect successful road cyclists to perform successfully on the track either. If you or anyone starts going down the "recovery" angle then you really have no clue about the training practices of world class track riders versus world class road cyclists. Who do you think trains at higher intensity on a regular basis for a lot of their career? So who would need better recovery?

Does anyone know anything about Charlie Walsh and his training methods?

Does anyone know about the training methods of every world record holding 4km men's pursuit team for the past 12yrs?

A 4min event is about 85% aerobic. A stage of the TdF is about 98% aerobic. Not that far apart.
 
L

Lanark

May 12, 2010
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Krebs cycle said:
Can you explain why a world class pursuit rider cannot become a world class road time trialist and why a world class road time trialist cannot become a GC contender?

If these 3 events are SO incompatible then we would expect there to be little cross over either way. We would not expect successful road cyclists to perform successfully on the track either. If you or anyone starts going down the "recovery" angle then you really have no clue about the training practices of world class track riders versus world class road cyclists. Who do you think trains at higher intensity on a regular basis for a lot of their career? So who would need better recovery?

Does anyone know anything about Charlie Walsh and his training methods?

Does anyone know about the training methods of every world record holding 4km men's pursuit team for the past 12yrs?

A 4min event is about 85% aerobic. A stage of the TdF is about 98% aerobic. Not that far apart.
Click to expand...

When will Jack Bobridge and Taylor Phinney win their first GT?
 
Zam_Olyas

Zam_Olyas

Sep 30, 2011
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Miss Cound not a happy bunny :D

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
To those that have been criticising my comments from yesterday, I stand by them. I know all the facts, all the details that you don't.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
I know I can be honest to fault, I speak my mind & have my opinions. I won't apologise for that.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
Why was I disappointed? I felt that Chris should have been allowed to secure his place on the podium and gain time over Evans & Nibali

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
He had the legs to win yesterday, after Evans had dropped he felt that Wiggins was in a position where he could look after himself...
 
Zam_Olyas

Zam_Olyas

Sep 30, 2011
9,560
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Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
You never know what will happen… if they want a guaranteed win, why not have two riders with a considerable margin over the competition??

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
… and to be clear, these opinions are my own. I wasn't criticising anyone, just giving my views on the bigger picture.
 
T

The Chicken

Jan 16, 2010
693
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10,030
Zam_Olyas said:
Miss Cound not a happy bunny :D

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
To those that have been criticising my comments from yesterday, I stand by them. I know all the facts, all the details that you don't.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
I know I can be honest to fault, I speak my mind & have my opinions. I won't apologise for that.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
Why was I disappointed? I felt that Chris should have been allowed to secure his place on the podium and gain time over Evans & Nibali

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
He had the legs to win yesterday, after Evans had dropped he felt that Wiggins was in a position where he could look after himself...
Click to expand...

lol you'd think the Team Sly heavies would silence this scatter-brain. Funny though. :D
 
fatsprintking

fatsprintking

Jul 15, 2010
420
0
0
Zam_Olyas said:
Miss Cound not a happy bunny :D

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
To those that have been criticising my comments from yesterday, I stand by them. I know all the facts, all the details that you don't.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
I know I can be honest to fault, I speak my mind & have my opinions. I won't apologise for that.

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
Why was I disappointed? I felt that Chris should have been allowed to secure his place on the podium and gain time over Evans & Nibali

Michelle Cound ‏@michellecound
He had the legs to win yesterday, after Evans had dropped he felt that Wiggins was in a position where he could look after himself...
Click to expand...

Sounds like a bit of a ****ing ****er and a **** to me.
 
T

the big ring

BANNED
Jul 28, 2009
2,135
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I would have liked to see Brad McGee on the Sky program - he had similar GT aspirations and pursuiting pedigree as Brad Wiggins.
 
fatsprintking

fatsprintking

Jul 15, 2010
420
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the big ring said:
I would have liked to see Brad McGee on the Sky program - he had similar GT aspirations and pursuiting pedigree as Brad Wiggins.
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Yeah but what about Dean Woods? A lean, sweet stylist rather than a masher who was the best pusuiter in the world but could not keep up with the bunch - on flat stages.
 
T

the big ring

BANNED
Jul 28, 2009
2,135
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fatsprintking said:
Yeah but what about Dean Woods? A lean, sweet stylist rather than a masher who was the best pusuiter in the world but could not keep up with the bunch - on flat stages.
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Warrnie is a 299km race:

In the Melbourne to Warrnambool Classic Woods set the record of 5h 12m in 1990.

what do you mean he couldn't keep up?
 
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