Team Jumbo-Visma

Page 18 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
This is what i was afraid of. Last season was a great success, now i guess only partying, good food and such things are on their mind! Reminds me:



Joking aside, what likely really happened is they had to attend some public relations event and it was on the way, during training. That is why they all wear bibs. A few minutes after the shot was taken, they likely were on their bikes again.

P.S. Would be interesting though, if Roglič would compete in Four Hills Tournament. But no, better to focus on TDF 2020 completely.
I don't even think Roglic ever jumped in the men's World Cup events
 
May 29, 2019
109
36
380
To be honest i don't remember. I do remember watching him jump, but don't remember the rank of the competition. If i look at the official statistics, then no.


He was successful as a junior, has won some medals, including a gold one, in a team competition. Then in 2007 came that accident in Planica. Latter he competed in FIS Cup and Continental Cup, no mention of ever competing in World Cup.

P.S. I guess something for the future then.
 
To be honest i don't remember. I do remember watching him jump, but don't remember the rank of the competition. If i look at the official statistics, then no.


He was successful as a junior, has won some medals, including a gold one, in a team competition. Then in 2007 came that accident in Planica. Latter he competed in FIS Cup and Continental Cup, no mention of ever competing in World Cup.

P.S. I guess something for the future then.
The accident in Planica happened in a World Cup event. But it was in training round or qualification round, I can't remember.
 
They have test jumpers which are usually dudes that didn't qualify but are there anyway to make sure the starting heights/conditions match/are suitable. Like if the test jumpers go super far they'll move the starting bench downward. Maybe Roglic was one of those.
 
May 29, 2019
109
36
380
I did some research, note that some things might not be as accurate, but here it goes. At Junior World Ski Jumping Championships Tarvisio 2007 Slovenian (junior) national team has won a gold medal in a team flying hill competition. The actual competition was held at Planica on a K90 hill. Roglič did perform great and a few days latter got an invitation, national team coach at that time was Ari Pekka Nikkola, to become a part of the national ski jumping team. Therefore yes, Roglič accident did happen on a World Cup event and Roglič was a part of the national team. The accident happened on a training session, after Roglič would need to perform good on a qualifying session.

Some trivia. As a ski jumper, there is an unwritten rule, once you reach the age of 18, you get a chance to jump on a large jumping hill. In Planica there is a famous large hill Bloudkova velikanka (Large Rožman/Bloudek Hill):


In addition to Roglič, that day another 18 years old, Jernej Košnjek, got a chance to jump on a large jumping hill. Košnjek was a forerunner and wasn't a part of the national team. He had a hard accident too, just a few minutes before Roglič. There is a story, on how they have encouraged themselves to go over 200 metres mark. Roglič (years) latter said this accident wasn't why he stopped competing in ski jumping. He competed for another 4 years but struggled with some injuries, lack of motivation and bad results. That made him end his ski jumping career. He got a bike, the rest is history.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Red Rick
I think they can use Kruijswijk in a more tactical role. If he attacks, Ineos needs to work. He may not be good enough to duke it out with the others on the last 5k of the last climb, but he's still a guy they need to mark.
Almost all of the mountain stages are too explosive for a diesel like him. He'll probably be distanced by Roglic and Dumoulin early on, leaving him pretty much useless as tactical option. Also, I'm not convinced he's willing to work as hard as a dom. Romandie is a case in point. He went in as a leader, but did the bare minimum when it turned out that Roglic was their best option by far.

An additional proven dom would have been more useful IMO. I'm not saying he's a diva, but it's clear to me that he thinks of himself as a leader only. Also, his TDF podium got to his head. The team should have stepped in and sent him to the Giro instead.

Also, who is the best mountain dom in your opinion? Kuss? Or Bennett? Don't know if either of them can really comfortably claim that title.

Bennett for sure. He was more consistent in the high mountains than De Plus, taking into account his crashes in the Alps. He's a born climber. De Plus is even more useful as a dom, but you can't leave your best climbing dom at home if you want to stick it to INEOS. Kuss is great when he's on, like the aforementioned riders, but he doesn't always have it.

But it doesn't really matter, as they could (and IMO should) have taken all three.
 
Last edited:
Almost all of the mountain stages are too explosive for a diesel like him. He'll probably be distanced by Roglic and Dumoulin early on, leaving him pretty much useless as tactical option. Also, I'm not convinced he's willing to work as hard as a dom. Romandie is a case in point. He went in as a leader, but did the bare minimum when it turned out that Roglic was their best option by far.

An additional proven dom would have been more useful IMO. I'm not saying he's a diva, but it's clear to me that he thinks of himself as a leader only. Also, his TDF podium got to his head. The team should have stepped in and sent him to the Giro instead.

Also, who is the best mountain dom in your opinion? Kuss? Or Bennett? Don't know if either of them can really comfortably claim that title.

Bennett for sure. He was more consistent in the high mountains than De Plus, taking into account his crashes in the Alps. He's a born climber. De Plus is even more useful as a dom, but you can't leave your best climbing dom at home if you want to stick it to INEOS. Kuss is great when he's on, like the aforementioned riders, but he doesn't always have it.

But it doesn't really matter, as they could (and IMO should) have taken all three.
I agree. Kruijswijk having his head up his own arse is the only reason I see for him going to the Tour. He had his one shot at winning a Grand Tour and he *** it. I don't think the sponsors pushed for Jumbo to send all 3, nor do I think the team would've told Kruijswijk no if he had asked to go to the Giro.

He hasn't shown the level to win since then. Dutch people keep hyping him as this climber who can win it on the hardest of stages, but the truth is even on those stages he's not one of the best 5 in the world, and he got beyond lucky to get the Tour podium last year. Dumoulin and Roglic are literally better at every single thing in cycling.

As for how he does as a domestique, I'm not sure I agree he does the bare minimum. What I do think is that Kruijswijk has terrible tactics for a 2nd or 3rd leader, who should make the speculative, opportunistic moves.
 
Reactions: 18-Valve. (pithy)
I guess we'll see. I'm not an expert on Kruijswijk, but i also don't think Romandie is a point of reference when talking about the biggest bike race in the world when it comes to team pressure and working towards a greater good. And while i agree he may be worse then Dumo and Roglic in basically everything, he isn't afraid to attack early. Even if he loses 2 or 3 minutes on them (and Bernal, Froome) by moneytime, if he goes early on the last climb, Ineos will still need to react. So i do not agree he'd be useless in a tactical sense, even if he loses minutes. I can see something like a Carapaz situation with Froome, Bernal, Roglic and Dumoulin eyeballing each other, while Kruijswijk attacks with 10k to go. It may not happen, but it could happen.

As for Bennett, next year De Plus will be a year older and better. There were already stages in July, where De Plus was clearly the better man uphill than Bennett, while also having had to more work early in the stage, and early on in the TDF. Remember that Bennett was plan B, unlike De Plus. There was a stage somewhere in the last week, where De Plus had to work on the penultimate climb, and Bennett was getting dropped by the work De Plus was doing, trailing a few meters behind the bunch. When De Plus 's work was done, i think Bennett had to come back and pull the last 1K. But De Plus came back in the descent, had to pull again through the entire valley, and the first few k's of the last climb. When it was Bennett's turn, he couldn't do anything anymore. Last MTF it was the same thing. De Plus doing the work for TJV, Bennett's input was negligible iirc. So i don't really agree with them leaving their best climbing dom at home. I think their best climbing dom will be there.
 
Reactions: Red Rick
I guess we'll see. I'm not an expert on Kruijswijk, but i also don't think Romandie is a point of reference when talking about the biggest bike race in the world when it comes to team pressure and working towards a greater good. And while i agree he may be worse then Dumo and Roglic in basically everything, he isn't afraid to attack early. Even if he loses 2 or 3 minutes on them (and Bernal, Froome) by moneytime, if he goes early on the last climb, Ineos will still need to react. So i do not agree he'd be useless in a tactical sense, even if he loses minutes. I can see something like a Carapaz situation with Froome, Bernal, Roglic and Dumoulin eyeballing each other, while Kruijswijk attacks with 10k to go. It may not happen, but it could happen.

As for Bennett, next year De Plus will be a year older and better. There were already stages in July, where De Plus was clearly the better man uphill than Bennett, while also having had to more work early in the stage, and early on in the TDF. Remember that Bennett was plan B, unlike De Plus. There was a stage somewhere in the last week, where De Plus had to work on the penultimate climb, and Bennett was getting dropped by the work De Plus was doing, trailing a few meters behind the bunch. When De Plus 's work was done, i think Bennett had to come back and pull the last 1K. But De Plus came back in the descent, had to pull again through the entire valley, and the first few k's of the last climb. When it was Bennett's turn, he couldn't do anything anymore. Last MTF it was the same thing. De Plus doing the work for TJV, Bennett's input was negligible iirc. So i don't really agree with them leaving their best climbing dom at home. I think their best climbing dom will be there.
De Plus definitly has the potential to give Jumbo the upper hand in the battle for numbers. He may even be better than one of Kruijswijk/Roglic/Dumoulin on his day.

The problem I see is Kruijswijk is a known entity and non-winner, so in my opinion Ineos will have a numerical advantage in the tactical game as well as likely the best single climber in a climbers race. I feel like if Dumoulin and Roglic both try to wait for the ITT then Bernal just needs to peak for the 3rd week. Froome is total wild card for me.
 
De Plus definitly has the potential to give Jumbo the upper hand in the battle for numbers. He may even be better than one of Kruijswijk/Roglic/Dumoulin on his day.

The problem I see is Kruijswijk is a known entity and non-winner, so in my opinion Ineos will have a numerical advantage in the tactical game as well as likely the best single climber in a climbers race. I feel like if Dumoulin and Roglic both try to wait for the ITT then Bernal just needs to peak for the 3rd week. Froome is total wild card for me.
Do we know the exact team Ineos is bringing? Bernal, Froome...
 
May 29, 2019
109
36
380
Kruijswijk didn't want to help Roglič all that much in the past years, rivalry was too big. Kruijswijk recently said in an interview he would be prepared to help Dumoulin and does expect Dumoulin would help him. If one of them would be in a better position. Dumoulin said in a recent interview if all 3 will be in the same position, and an attack from another team would occur, Kruijswijk and after Dumoulin will be responsible to close the gap. Therefore in my opinion taking Kruijswijk to the Tour was a well thought decision and Kruijswijk didn't have much say in it, hierarchy is rather clear.

In my opinion Team INEOS response will need to be rather substantial. Bringing just Bernal and Froome is in my opinion too risky. One of them competing on Giro and going for GC is obviously a no go this year. Carapaz is still an unknown to me. Is he a serial GT winner or he just capitalized on Roglič and Nibali dispute. It will be interesting to see if Thomas will need to focus on Tour this year, not having much say in it. I somehow feel he will need to do that. Not sure on how they will sort out the hierarchy situation, though.
 
May 29, 2019
109
36
380
What in my opinion happened is Team INEOS waited for the TJV announcement. I guess being the best team of the previous season, they are entitled to do that. They likely felt Dumoulin is going to Giro, Roglič to the Tour and Kruijswijk to Vuelta. What they didn't know is if Kruijswijk and or Dumoulin are going to the Tour. I can imagine they had a general agreement on who, from the Team INEOS, is going to what GT race and what role will it have. There were just some final touches left to do, based on TJV announcement.

All of that likely felt apart after TJV anouncement. Carapaz indeed likely going to Giro, but Bernal and Thomas likely don't have much say anymore in where they are going. And i somehow doubt, they will be able to establish a clear hierarchy. Wouldn't be surprised if Team INEOS won't announce their decision for another week or two. Tactically TJV won the first battle, still long way though, to win the war.
 
I guess we'll see. I'm not an expert on Kruijswijk, but i also don't think Romandie is a point of reference when talking about the biggest bike race in the world when it comes to team pressure and working towards a greater good. And while i agree he may be worse then Dumo and Roglic in basically everything, he isn't afraid to attack early. Even if he loses 2 or 3 minutes on them (and Bernal, Froome) by moneytime, if he goes early on the last climb, Ineos will still need to react. So i do not agree he'd be useless in a tactical sense, even if he loses minutes. I can see something like a Carapaz situation with Froome, Bernal, Roglic and Dumoulin eyeballing each other, while Kruijswijk attacks with 10k to go. It may not happen, but it could happen.

As for Bennett, next year De Plus will be a year older and better. There were already stages in July, where De Plus was clearly the better man uphill than Bennett, while also having had to more work early in the stage, and early on in the TDF. Remember that Bennett was plan B, unlike De Plus. There was a stage somewhere in the last week, where De Plus had to work on the penultimate climb, and Bennett was getting dropped by the work De Plus was doing, trailing a few meters behind the bunch. When De Plus 's work was done, i think Bennett had to come back and pull the last 1K. But De Plus came back in the descent, had to pull again through the entire valley, and the first few k's of the last climb. When it was Bennett's turn, he couldn't do anything anymore. Last MTF it was the same thing. De Plus doing the work for TJV, Bennett's input was negligible iirc. So i don't really agree with them leaving their best climbing dom at home. I think their best climbing dom will be there.
I think you're being unfair to Bennett here. As has been mentioned, he crashed hard (during the first mountain stage in week 3). Twice.


Bennett is Jumbo's 4th GC guy as of right now ( / part-time super dom) so it makes sense he's their Giro GC leader, but he should have been in their Tour squad if you take their words at the team presentation at face value. Obviously so should De Plus. I'm not arguing against his selection.

I don't think the proposed line-up is ideal for Roglic. He now has to share leadership with Dumoulin and a bunch of Dutch and Flemish riders who will likely favor Dumoulin on a personal level (going by recent interviews mostly). I don't like it.

Of course, it won't matter if INEOS/Sky are back to their usual ways.
 
I think you're being unfair to Bennett here. As has been mentioned, he crashed hard (during the first mountain stage in week 3). Twice.


Bennett is Jumbo's 4th GC guy as of right now ( / part-time super dom) so it makes sense he's their Giro GC leader, but he should have been in their Tour squad if you take their words at the team presentation at face value. Obviously so should De Plus. I'm not arguing against his selection.

I don't think the proposed line-up is ideal for Roglic. He now has to share leadership with Dumoulin and a bunch of Dutch and Flemish riders who will likely favor Dumoulin on a personal level (going by recent interviews mostly). I don't like it.

Of course, it won't matter if INEOS/Sky are back to their usual ways.
Even before that, Bennett had not giving me the impression of being the superior rider uphill. But it doesn't really matter. I understand the point you're arguing, that he should have been there if they wanted to bring their best squad. But maybe they wanted to give him a shot at the Giro, so he could prove he's worthy of being a GC leader or not. Maybe he paid his dues and they couldn't refuse him getting his shot at a GT and didn't think he'd be fresh enough to ride TDF after that. Maybe bringing another GC guy, would negatively impact the team dynamic more. I don't know.

As for Roglic, i didn't even think about that. I guess it's possible, but how exactly does one work for Dumoulin and not for Roglic? I can't imagine anyone of the team chasing Roglic to help Dumoulin (unless they aren't dragging the competition with them, in which case it would be perfectly fine to do so). I can't think of many scenarios where De Plus or van Aert would be doing work for Dumoulin, where it would impact Roglic in a negative way.
 
Even before that, Bennett had not giving me the impression of being the superior rider uphill. But it doesn't really matter. I understand the point you're arguing, that he should have been there if they wanted to bring their best squad. But maybe they wanted to give him a shot at the Giro, so he could prove he's worthy of being a GC leader or not. Maybe he paid his dues and they couldn't refuse him getting his shot at a GT. Maybe bringing another GC guy, would negatively impact the team dynamic more.

As for Roglic, i didn't even think about that. I guess it's possible, but how exactly does one work for Dumoulin and not for Roglic? I can't imagine anyone of the team chasing Roglic to help Dumoulin (unless they aren't dragging the competition with them, in which case it would be perfectly fine to do so). I can't think of many scenarios where De Plus or van Aert would be doing work for Dumoulin, where it would impact Roglic in a negative way.
I think the specifics are more about 'how many people wait for which rider when they have a mechanical at a bad time' sort of thing. Also, say Thomas attacks somewhere, then maybe Kruijswijk should chase that attack or try to be in the same move before Dumoulin or Roglic do so.

I think it can work fine, but the biggest issue I see is if Roglic is clearly better in the first 2 weeks and then starts fading and Dumoulin is 50 seconds back and a bit stronger, etc. Then you might be in trouble.

I guess it kinda works cause mountain stage where it matters most is last, and especially if say Kruijswijk could stick with Roglic then maybe Dumoulin could ride for himself. I'd waiting on Grand Colombier is possible cause it's lower and it flattens out while there's not really such a thing on Col de la Loze.
 
I think it can work fine, but the biggest issue I see is if Roglic is clearly better in the first 2 weeks and then starts fading and Dumoulin is 50 seconds back and a bit stronger, etc. Then you might be in trouble.
Yeah, something like that could be an issue, but i don't know if being Dutch speaking or not would really make much of a difference. If this is the case, then Roglic also needs to be honest towards the team and the team should pull for the guy with the biggest shot at yellow. So far i haven't heard anything about "camps" within the team, and unless this would manifest, i also don't think this would be a problem and they would follow team orders. I also don't think Roglic is isolated within the team, and he's been riding with the others for longer and might have a better relationship with some guys, while Dumoulin is the new guy.
 
Reactions: Red Rick
Yeah, something like that could be an issue, but i don't know if being Dutch speaking or not would really make much of a difference. If this is the case, then Roglic also needs to be honest towards the team and the team should pull for the guy with the biggest shot at yellow. So far i haven't heard anything about "camps" within the team, and unless this would manifest, i also don't think this would be a problem and they would follow team orders. I also don't think Roglic is isolated within the team, and he's been riding with the others for longer and might have a better relationship with some guys, while Dumoulin is the new guy.
I don't think there's camps within the team. If one of them realises they can't win they'll do the work. I think issues might arise when both Roglic and Dumoulin still think they can win.

The route won't show who's best until the very end, after all the most tactical stages are basically already over. Even the final mountain stages is quite simple tactically, it's balls deep on Plateau the Glieres, and if you get dropped there it's game over.

That said, Roglic was really good at the shorter, steeper climbs in the Vuelta and he might go on the offensive quite early and gain time in the short and steep finishes. This isn't the Giro where Roglic will make a dumb mistake of riding Romandie. The only worry I have for Roglic is if the Vuelta was hard enough to show he's up for it.
 
May 29, 2019
109
36
380
As we had in depth discussion in this thread and as the information is still unofficial:


Bernal, as it looks like, was "influenced" by Team INEOS, to skip the Giro. And suddenly Thomas didn't have any real intentions anyway, to participate in Giro. Carapaz therefore likely going to Giro, the rest to Tour.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts