Teams & Riders Team Visma - Lease a Bike

[wheresmybrakes]

If the grown ups put a TTT into next years Tour then it will become the ultimate bore fest (especially if it's at the start). It will more than likely kill the Tour, baring accidents/illness to Jumbo. It would be interesting how many other teams would target the Tour if it was the case. Just my view.

 

[BigCoward]

If the grown ups put a TTT into next years Tour then it will become the ultimate bore fest (especially if it's at the start). It will more than likely kill the Tour, baring accidents/illness to Jumbo. It would be interesting how many other teams would target the Tour if it was the case. Just my view.

It might mean that Pog has to go insane to recover the time lost which causes chaos behind. But more likely it ruins it.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Yeah, it would put the world's best GT specialist at a major disadvantage. I wouldn't mind if Roglic and Vingegaard got an early advantage over Pogacar, however unfair. Same for INEOS to a lesser extent. (I don't think they'd gain that much time)

 

[Red Rick]

I too would want Pogacar to be behind early, but not like this.

 

[Rackham]

I too would want Pogacar to be behind early, but not like this.

A 60km team time trial across a flat/rolling terrain with a JV squad featuring Roglic, Dumoulin, Rohan Dennis, Vingegaard & van Aert seems good to me.

But I enjoy a good cycling massacre & the online meltdown resulting from it.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Id love a TTT. It doesnt have to be any longer than 30 kms, and it would put Pog at a little disadvantage, but that would most likely make for a better race anyways, no?

 

[Rackham]

Id love a TTT. It doesnt have to be any longer than 30 kms, and it would put Pog at a little disadvantage, but that would most likely make for a better race anyways, no?

If Roglic stays on his bike & is in his usual form, it would take one of those massive Pogacar performances (Grand Bornand, Belles Filles) to claw back the time loss from the TTT. And if he doesn't, the "narrative" surrounding the Primoz Roglic victory would be "he only won due to the TTT".

And because Roglic never does anything the easy way & has his own mythology to take care of (whereby he rises like a phoenix from the ashes etc.) I would say it would be detrimental to Roglic' legacy to make his maiden Tour win easy or controversial (which is what a TTT would be to a certain extent, just because of the massive strength of JV in that exercise).

So despite my previous joke about a long TTT, I'm not in favor of it. Roglic needs to do this the hard way & the proper way, i.e. the same way he just won the Olympics against the best specialists in the world without any advantage/disadvantage, but with a level playing field where he wins on the day because he's the best.

 

[Leinster]

We've had 2 years with no TTT, so we're due on.

It's been a while since the last cobble stage, so we're due one.

If/when these things are included in next year's route, the narrative will be "We know Pog can climb/TT, but can he/his team do this?" And ultimately the time that he loses, if any, will be marginal compared to what can/will be gained/lost in ITTs/the mountains.

It's worth pointing out that in the last TTT, over 27.6km, Team UAE, with a much weaker lineup than they have now, finished 16th and lost a grand total of 1'03". The previous one, in 2015, had slightly larger gaps over a similar distance, but still only 2 teams lost more than 2 minutes (Rui Costa's Lampre team finished 8th, 48s behind BMC).

 

[ice&fire]

Roglic needs to fail miserably before getting a big win. TJV should send him to the Giro

 

[Monte Serra]

We've had 2 years with no TTT, so we're due on.

Are we really due a TTT? Surely the Tour is better off without one. Can't remember the last time the Giro had a TTT.

 

[Netserk]

We've had 2 years with no TTT, so we're due on.

It's been a while since the last cobble stage, so we're due one.

If/when these things are included in next year's route, the narrative will be "We know Pog can climb/TT, but can he/his team do this?" And ultimately the time that he loses, if any, will be marginal compared to what can/will be gained/lost in ITTs/the mountains.

It's worth pointing out that in the last TTT, over 27.6km, Team UAE, with a much weaker lineup than they have now, finished 16th and lost a grand total of 1'03". The previous one, in 2015, had slightly larger gaps over a similar distance, but still only 2 teams lost more than 2 minutes (Rui Costa's Lampre team finished 8th, 48s behind BMC).

UAE lost 1'38'' in 2018, but depending on the length, I too don't see any favourite losing more than a minute.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Which teams in history could have matched their potential TTT line up they will have next year?
Sky 2012/2013 maybe at a push, anyone else?

2006 T-Mobile probably (If Jan was allowed to ride).

Good call, didn't they had like 5 riders in the top 15 on the last ITT (even without Ullrich)?

Other team that comes to mind is Astana 2009 with 4 riders in the top 10 of the prologue.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Good call, didn't they had like 5 riders in the top 15 on the last ITT (even without Ullrich)?

Other team that comes to mind is Astana 2009 with 4 riders in the top 10 of the prologue.

Jumbo could have 6 riders in the top-10. Roglic, Van Aert, Affini, Dumoulin, Dennis, Vingegaard... did I forget anyone?

 

[Netserk]

Good call, didn't they had like 5 riders in the top 15 on the last ITT (even without Ullrich)?

Other team that comes to mind is Astana 2009 with 4 riders in the top 10 of the prologue.

Of their 7 men (Sevilla and Ullrich didn't start the Tour) 6 finished in the top-16 in the first long ITT (they 'only' had 1-2 in the last ITT).

 

[ice&fire]

Jumbo could have 6 riders in the top-10. Roglic, Van Aert, Affini, Dumoulin, Dennis, Vingegaard... did I forget anyone?

Foss?

 

[titan31]

I quite like a TTT early myself (anything after stage 3 is a huge no). I'd take a stage 1 TTT over a stage 1 TT or prologue. Just find them more preferable to watch.

Would depend on what team they'd send but you could send something like Martin, Gesink, WVA, Dennis, Dumoulin,Foss, Vingegaard, Roglic and smash anyone else. Maybe Affini over Gesink if you wanted to smash more.

 

[Leinster]

Are we really due a TTT? Surely the Tour is better off without one. Can't remember the last time the Giro had a TTT.

They were supposed to start with one a couple years ago, but the course went over some rickety wooden planks among other things so they switched to an itt, and I think they might have even discounted it from the GC, so loads of guys soft pedaled it.

Oh, and Dan Martin crashed out in the opener in Belfast in 2014.

Besides which, since when does the Tour try to imitate the Giro?

It’s worth remembering, the TTT is about a lot more than horsepower. We’ve seen plenty of TTTs won by squads with no real recognized, big-shot ITT specialist, but good organization, pacing, strategy and being a well-drilled unit.

 

[Monte Serra]

They were supposed to start with one a couple years ago, but the course went over some rickety wooden planks among other things so they switched to an itt, and I think they might have even discounted it from the GC, so loads of guys soft pedaled it.

Oh, and Dan Martin crashed out in the opener in Belfast in 2014.

Besides which, since when does the Tour try to imitate the Giro?

It’s worth remembering, the TTT is about a lot more than horsepower. We’ve seen plenty of TTTs won by squads with no real recognized, big-shot ITT specialist, but good organization, pacing, strategy and being a well-drilled unit.

Good points. But there are hardly any TTT's left on the calendar (only the one in the Tour of Britain?). So there aren't really any teams left that specialize in them, like BMC or Sunweb in the past. So I think it would be unlikely that next year we would get a surprise winner, if there would be a TTT in next year's Tour. I could be wrong of course, maybe the skills don't disappear from a team's DNA as fast as I assume.

 

[Breh]

Which teams in history could have matched their potential TTT line up they will have next year?
Sky 2012/2013 maybe at a push, anyone else?

2013 Sky lost to Orica Greenedge and Quick step in the Tour TTT.
Especially Orica was a team with plenty of solid riders but not a single superstar TT'er.
There's more to a TTT than just pure watts, even Boonen and Kittel once won a WC in this discipline.

The names do sound pretty juicy tho!

 

[Red Rick]

Leave TTTs to one days and Hammer Series where they rightfully belong

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Foss?

short stage 1 TT in the Giro was very good. But other than that... I don't know. I'd bet against it as of right now.

 

[BigCoward]

2013 Sky lost to Orica Greenedge and Quick step in the Tour TTT.
Especially Orica was a team with plenty of solid riders but not a single superstar TT'er.
There's more to a TTT than just pure watts, even Boonen and Kittel once won a WC in this discipline.

The names do sound pretty juicy tho!

The tour team didn't have Wiggins Or Uran. Just as Jumbo may not send all their firepower. I meant which team in theory. But I get your point.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I do wish there was a way to bring the prestige of a Grand Tour to TTTs without bringing the lameness of TTTs to the General Classifications. I think it's a beautiful event, but not worth the distortion it brings to the real race we're all here to see. Secondary events like the Hammer Series will chicken-and-egg itself into the sidelines- no one will take it seriously so it isn't interesting so no one will take it seriously...

It will never happen, but maybe a prologue style day, or even pre-prologue, where the winner of the TTT gets to wear the Leaders Jersey for the first stage. Time gaps aren't recorded. Teams don't need to re-weight their rosters, and hyperfocused GC teams could even soft pedal, but enough teams would want to fight to win the "Tour de France TTT" and prestige that comes with earning any leader's jersey for a day or more.

 

[Leinster]

I do wish there was a way to bring the prestige of a Grand Tour to TTTs without bringing the lameness of TTTs to the General Classifications. I think it's a beautiful event, but not worth the distortion it brings to the real race we're all here to see.

It will never happen, but maybe a prologue style day, or even pre-prologue, where the winner of the TTT gets to wear the Leaders Jersey for the first stage. Time gaps aren't recorded. Teams don't need to re-weight their rosters, and hyperfocused GC teams could even soft pedal, but enough teams would want to fight to win the "Tour de France TTT" and prestige that comes with earning any leader's jersey for a day or more.

As I said above, the impact of a TTT on the GC is really overstated. Most (serious) gc riders will lose less than a minute in a 30km TTT. A lot of climbers will lose twice that in a ITT.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

As I said above, the impact of a TTT on the GC is really overstated. Most (serious) gc riders will lose less than a minute in a 30km TTT. A lot of climbers will lose twice that in a ITT.

You're right. I guess I got caught up trying to appease forum posters than anyone connected to the racing itself. Bring on the TTT!