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Team Rankings - GT qualificiation

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jul 2, 2009
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tgsgirl said:
Tour Down Under, Eneco Tour, Tour de Pologne, Tour de Suisse... those races. A win there is good on them, but no way should it be more prestigious than a win in Tirreno.

Why put the Tour de Suisse in with that lot? It's been going twice as long as T-A and (to my mind) has a more illustrious list of winners.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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theyoungest said:
Hold on there, Tour de Suisse doesn't belong in that list. That is a prestigious race. So is Tirreno, but I don't really get why you use that example, as it is also a Protour race.

*doh*
Romandie. I'm not too keen on Romandie. And even that's more ProTour than Eneco & TDU.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
BMC have been exposed throughout the season for what they are: a bunch of second-tier riders, some with potential, a few aging stars who can get a win here or there if the stars align correctly, and Cadel Evans.

this sums it up for me.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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tgsgirl said:
*doh*
Romandie. I'm not too keen on Romandie. And even that's more ProTour than Eneco & TDU.

Even that's been around twenty years longer than T-A and has been won by the likes of Merckx, Hinault, Bartali, Roche, Gimondi and Zoetemelk.
 
Feb 18, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
Even that's been around twenty years longer than T-A and has been won by the likes of Merckx, Hinault, Bartali, Roche, Gimondi and Zoetemelk.

Eh, could very well be. It hasn't been all that great lately, imho. It's subjective.
 
Catalunya's been around longer than the Giro, and has been won by some pretty stellar names. However, I wouldn't say that it was any more prestigious than its younger brother in the East (País Vasco). Romandie is a strong and traditional race, but its prestige level at present is, I'd say, on the third tier of ProTour races:

1) GTs, monuments
2) Classics, Dauphiné, Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico, Suisse
3) Catalunya, Romandie, País Vasco, Paris-Tours
4) Plouay, TDU, Poland, Eneco, Vattenfall, Canadian races
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
Catalunya's been around longer than the Giro, and has been won by some pretty stellar names. However, I wouldn't say that it was any more prestigious than its younger brother in the East (País Vasco). Romandie is a strong and traditional race, but its prestige level at present is, I'd say, on the third tier of ProTour races:

1) GTs, monuments, Tour of California
2) Classics, Dauphiné, Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico, Suisse
3) Catalunya, Romandie, País Vasco, Paris-Tours
4) Plouay, TDU, Poland, Eneco, Vattenfall, Canadian races

you forgot one!
 
Nov 17, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Catalunya's been around longer than the Giro, and has been won by some pretty stellar names. However, I wouldn't say that it was any more prestigious than its younger brother in the East (País Vasco). Romandie is a strong and traditional race, but its prestige level at present is, I'd say, on the third tier of ProTour races:

1) GTs, monuments
2) Classics, Dauphiné, Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico, Suisse
3) Catalunya, Romandie, País Vasco, Paris-Tours
4) Plouay, TDU, Poland, Eneco, Vattenfall, Canadian races

What do you mean when you say "classics"?

I know the monuments are MSR, RVV, PR, LBL and Lombardia. Would the "classics" be Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold, Fleche Wallone, and San Sebastian? Should some of them (maybe Gent-Wevelgem/San Sebastian) be in the 3rd tier perhaps?

Paris-Tours isn't PT anymore, is it?
 
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kurtinsc said:
What do you mean when you say "classics"?

I know the monuments are MSR, RVV, PR, LBL and Lombardia. Would the "classics" be Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel Gold, Fleche Wallone, and San Sebastian? Should some of them (maybe Gent-Wevelgem/San Sebastian) be in the 3rd tier perhaps?

Paris-Tours isn't PT anymore, is it?
Nah, winning a minor classic is as good as winning a stage in dauphine etc.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Catalunya's been around longer than the Giro, and has been won by some pretty stellar names. However, I wouldn't say that it was any more prestigious than its younger brother in the East (País Vasco). Romandie is a strong and traditional race, but its prestige level at present is, I'd say, on the third tier of ProTour races:

1) GTs, monuments
2) Classics, Dauphiné, Paris-Nice, Tirreno-Adriatico, Suisse
3) Catalunya, Romandie, País Vasco, Paris-Tours
4) Plouay, TDU, Poland, Eneco, Vattenfall, Canadian races
paris tours should be with the classics. Classics are better than Dauphine, paris nice, tirrenno and suisse.

TeamSkyFans said:
there is now cereal and milk all over my worktop

It is not as much of a joke of how much Wigans and Sky's leadout train's all year have epically sucked. All the hype at the start of the year made EBH sound like God's gift to cycling.

Someone said that most BMC riders were barely Pro conti? Which of these riders is at that level; Hincapie, Evans, Ballan, Kroon, Morabito, Santambrogio, Bookwalter, Burghardt, Frank, Kristoff or Wyss? The others i would agree that they are pro conti level.

tgsgirl, Sagan and EBh get a lot of support from their teams and have some sort of leadout train which is why they get results. I will definetly save this thread for future reference and you will be bowing down to the master, ACF94!
 
Jul 2, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
Someone said that most BMC riders were barely Pro conti? Which of these riders is at that level; Hincapie, Evans, Ballan, Kroon, Morabito, Santambrogio, Bookwalter, Burghardt, Frank, Kristoff or Wyss? The others i would agree that they are pro conti level.

Bookwalter, Frank and Wyss - all outside the top 500 for 2010 on CQ ranking. And Kroon is 461, so I'll add him for good measure.
 
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auscyclefan94 said:
It is not as much of a joke of how much Wigans and Sky's leadout train's all year have epically sucked. All the hype at the start of the year made EBH sound like God's gift to cycling.

Have you actually watched cycling this season. Edvald spent most of the spring injured, and at times he has been fit he has won races, he still has more wins on his own than BMC have altogether, 7 wins and a pts classification. Hes 13th on the rider rankings for god sake. Not bad considering how long he was injured.

And Sky's train. The A-Train of hendo, cj, downing, swift, etc has been pretty much dominant in races it has taken part in, the B-train of other riders has been useless.

Stop trying to detract from BMC's failings by turning this into yet another sky slating session. there are plenty enough threads for that. Win for win sky are one of the more succesful teams this year. Get over it.

Seriously mate, you need to think before you post. Critising EBH's season really does make you look stupid.
 
Mambo95 said:
Bookwalter, Frank and Wyss - all outside the top 500 for 2010 on CQ ranking. And Kroon is 461, so I'll add him for good measure.

I'm not sure that it really makes much sense to place weight on the CQ rankings in evaluating riders who are basically domestiques. Even more so when the riders in question are on a non-Pro Tour team. A single victory in a lucky breakaway will catapult a rider up those rankings, way above a similar rider who may be much more valuable to his team, week in, week out, burying himself without sniffing a CQ point.
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Zinoviev Letter said:
I'm not sure that it really makes much sense to place weight on the CQ rankings in evaluating riders who are basically domestiques. Even more so when the riders in question are on a non-Pro Tour team. A single victory in a lucky breakaway will catapult a rider up those rankings, way above a similar rider who may be much more valuable to his team, week in, week out, burying himself without sniffing a CQ point.

And how does this wind up ACF?
 
Feb 18, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
tgsgirl, Sagan and EBh get a lot of support from their teams and have some sort of leadout train which is why they get results. I will definetly save this thread for future reference and you will be bowing down to the master, ACF94!

Yeah, I suggest you get over that fetish soon boy.

And when you're done with that maybe you can try to learn how to read. I said Kristoff is not better than Modolo, Boeckmans or Guarnieri. Now maybe Guarnieri gets more support (but I doubt it, as there are many riders higher up on the Liqui ladder), but Boeckmans and Modolo certainly do not.
 
May 15, 2009
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TeamSkyFans said:
And Sky's train. The A-Train of hendo, cj, downing, swift, etc has been pretty much dominant in races it has taken part in, the B-train of other riders has been useless.

Thats probably going a bit too far ;)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Zinoviev Letter said:
I'm not sure that it really makes much sense to place weight on the CQ rankings in evaluating riders who are basically domestiques. Even more so when the riders in question are on a non-Pro Tour team. A single victory in a lucky breakaway will catapult a rider up those rankings, way above a similar rider who may be much more valuable to his team, week in, week out, burying himself without sniffing a CQ point.
Exactly right. Spot on!
TeamSkyFans said:
Have you actually watched cycling this season. Edvald spent most of the spring injured, and at times he has been fit he has won races, he still has more wins on his own than BMC have altogether, 7 wins and a pts classification. Hes 13th on the rider rankings for god sake. Not bad considering how long he was injured.

And Sky's train. The A-Train of hendo, cj, downing, swift, etc has been pretty much dominant in races it has taken part in, the B-train of other riders has been useless.

Stop trying to detract from BMC's failings by turning this into yet another sky slating session. there are plenty enough threads for that. Win for win sky are one of the more succesful teams this year. Get over it.

Seriously mate, you need to think before you post. Critising EBH's season really does make you look stupid.

I understand he has been injured but they seem to get it wrong quite often. yes he has won a fair bit but 3 out of his 7 wins are in TTT's or ITT's. The other races he won were
1st Stage 7 Tirreno–Adriatico (sprint)
1st Stage 7 Critérium du Dauphiné (solo)
1st Dutch Food Valley Classic (sprint) against Kenny van hummel!
1st stage 3 of Tour of Oman (sprint)

People have said that they BMC are 2nd rate and then say they have failed this year. You can't bag a team when they don't win when you don't even expect them to win. Make up your freakin mind! The biggest win Hendo had was in paris nice. yes he has won quite a few events, but like you say they were only in 5th rate events like the TDU, bay series classics or eneco tour.:rolleyes:

Look, I am not saying that Sky are bad team and they have done well, but their leadout train has stuffed up multiple times by going way too early. They could do better and that is a compliment of what a strong team they are. Read my post in the transfers thread about Sky. I don't bash them and you seem to only call me out on bashing Sky when there are plenty of other bashers. remind me of why you left again?


I guess it is just coincidence that you say a stage of the dauphine is a simportant as a classic. What a joke! Changing your standards every minute for your own arguement. So Flecha's win in Het Volk was equal to EBH's win of a stage in the dauphine?
Mambo95 said:
Bookwalter, Frank and Wyss - all outside the top 500 for 2010 on CQ ranking. And Kroon is 461, so I'll add him for good measure.

Bookwalter rode well in both prologues of the tdf and giro, frank rode well in the tds and wyss rode well in 5th rank events such as Romandie and Down under. I said they had good to reasonable seasons because little was expected of BMC from any of you who never thought they would win much and then bag them because they are 2nd rate.
 
This is so true. I think , although it would be sort of complicated to track, there should be a system that include all winning and placing in every race but use some sort of coefficient process to validate the difference in the quality of the competition. Why should a minor race win be labeled as &&^%result if in fact all the top riders happened to have entered it. Pro-tour races, monuments or simple races those who win these so-called second rated competition can claim to have done it by beating the top guys in the field.
 
Dedelou said:
This is so true. I think , although it would be sort of complicated to track, there should be a system that include all winning and placing in every race but use some sort of coefficient process to validate the difference in the quality of the competition. Why should a minor race win be labeled as &&^%result if in fact all the top riders happened to have entered it. Pro-tour races, monuments or simple races those who win these so-called second rated competition can claim to have done it by beating the top guys in the field.
That's why races are ranked according to their prestige and hence the expected field (ProTour oddities aside). It's no one's fault if half the TdF GC potential winners decide to ride the Algarve or if HTC decides to win sprints they should have no business winning. It's a reasonable system all things considered.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
Mind you, if it hadn't been for those GC-irrelevant "lucky escapes" Burghardt wouldn't be in the top 500 either.

You want to start on how much success Cofidis, FDJ, Bbox or quickstep have had resulting in "lucky escapes"?
 
So with Cervelo disbanding does that mean it's now down to the top 18 teams for the GT automatic qualification? (still 17 teams qualifying obviously but with Cervelo's current 13th place no longer meaning anything).

If that's the case AG2R would be the team to benefit based on the current rankings.

There will surely be 22 teams at the Tour again next year considering that three of the wild cards will have to go to French teams (FDJ, Cofidis and BBox). That just leaves two wild cards available which will surely go to Schleck's team and Geox.

So Fly V Australia and Vaconsoleil looking almost certain to miss out on a 2011 TDF place.