Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

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But that's what I'm saying.
Sanchez -or someone else, but probably Sanchez - will be the "main man", while Tejay will "freeload" in order to attempt to stick with the favourites as long as possible. Both for the tactical advantages - if he's "up there" in the GC he could be sent on the attack, thus forcing the other teams to react - and in order to simply have someone with Sanchez in the finales.
Of course if it turns out he can't stay with the favourites, or if the team simply needs him to sacrifice himself, he'll be downgraded to a more generic domestique role.

So, basically the structure could be something like this:

Sanchez: The Protected Rider. The rider everyone is, well, riding for. If need be everyone will sacrifice themselves for him.

Tejay: The Free Rider. The rider who will be allowed to simply ride along with the group without pulling and/or getting bottles. Expected to hang on to the favourite-group for as long as possible, but if he's dropped earlier on: Bad luck! Nobody's gonna get sent down to help him. Will be expected to sacrifice himself if need be, even if he's actually sitting in the top-10 at the time.
 
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RedheadDane said:
But that's what I'm saying.
Sanchez -or someone else, but probably Sanchez - will be the "main man", while Tejay will "freeload" in order to attempt to stick with the favourites as long as possible. Both for the tactical advantages - if he's "up there" in the GC he could be sent on the attack, thus forcing the other teams to react - and in order to simply have someone with Sanchez in the finales.
Of course if it turns out he can't stay with the favourites, or if the team simply needs him to sacrifice himself, he'll be downgraded to a more generic domestique role.

So, basically the structure could be something like this:

Sanchez: The Protected Rider. The rider everyone is, well, riding for. If need be everyone will sacrifice themselves for him.

Tejay: The Free Rider. The rider who will be allowed to simply ride along with the group without pulling and/or getting bottles. Expected to hang on to the favourite-group for as long as possible, but if he's dropped earlier on: Bad luck! Nobody's gonna get sent down to help him. Will be expected to sacrifice himself if need be, even if he's actually sitting in the top-10 at the time.
Yeah I 'm hoping that's what happens because it's Sanchez's last GT before he retires. He was in sixth spot before he crashed out last year.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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RedheadDane said:
Now you're saying Too thin to be a GC contender, previously you were saying Too thin to be a climber. There's a difference, mainly in the sense that you don't have to be a climber to be a GC contender.
Though, the 2015 Vuelta might be a bad example; didn't he break his collarbone, or wrist, or something? That's hardly got anything to do with his weight...
And once more, I do agree that he's making a mistake in thinking he could/should still be a GT rider.
Breaking a collar bone is all about bone and muscle density.

As a qualified PT...go lift some weights. Tony Martin broke his collarbone whilst wearing the maillot jaune a few years back. He just went sideways and dropped onto the road. Why did his break?

Look at the size of his upper body versus his lower body. The man, is for his build, a bit TOO thin as well in his upper body, which I have noted, increases the risk of major injury in a crash. It just looks risky. Was that the 2014 Tour when so many riders crashed?

The best GC bike handler dominated that Tour BTW. Staying on your bike is always going to take precedent to your safety.

Basically, instead of bouncing off the road, and not breaking, they hit the road and break. That has more to do with weight and build than anything else OTHER than bike handling. How to reduce that issue?

Improve bike handling skills and put on more weight in your chest, shoulders and back. Robert Gesink unfortunately has had similar issues when falling off his bike. Too thin and if a crash occurs, it's not nice. I look at many of these riders and note how precarious their builds is should a fall impact them...that's the price they are faced with by being too thin.

Look at how their shirts fit on some of them. A man wearing an XS (that means extra small) jersey, who cannot fill it out, is REALLY REALLY LEAN. This is just common sense.

How to improve their bone density is simple. Get a good strength and conditioning coach, improve your bodies lactate energy pathways (you'll become more explosive) and put some muscle mass on whilst increasing bone density. Tejay's countrymen, American's are some of the BEST in this field worldwide. He should hire one. Yes that means lifting weights.

Yes I think if you chose not to lift weights and ride only, you're doing yourself a disservice. At the minimum, your muscular skeletal system will improve and grow stronger.
 
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Galic Ho said:
RedheadDane said:
Now you're saying Too thin to be a GC contender, previously you were saying Too thin to be a climber. There's a difference, mainly in the sense that you don't have to be a climber to be a GC contender.
Though, the 2015 Vuelta might be a bad example; didn't he break his collarbone, or wrist, or something? That's hardly got anything to do with his weight...
And once more, I do agree that he's making a mistake in thinking he could/should still be a GT rider.
Breaking a collar bone is all about bone and muscle density.

As a qualified PT...go lift some weights. Tony Martin broke his collarbone whilst wearing the maillot jaune a few years back. He just went sideways and dropped onto the road. Why did his break?

Look at the size of his upper body versus his lower body. The man, is for his build, a bit TOO thin as well in his upper body, which I have noted, increases the risk of major injury in a crash. It just looks risky. Was that the 2014 Tour when so many riders crashed?

The best GC bike handler dominated that Tour BTW. Staying on your bike is always going to take precedent to your safety.

Basically, instead of bouncing off the road, and not breaking, they hit the road and break. That has more to do with weight and build than anything else OTHER than bike handling. How to reduce that issue?

Improve bike handling skills and put on more weight in your chest, shoulders and back. Robert Gesink unfortunately has had similar issues when falling off his bike. Too thin and if a crash occurs, it's not nice. I look at many of these riders and note how precarious their builds is should a fall impact them...that's the price they are faced with by being too thin.

Look at how their shirts fit on some of them. A man wearing an XS (that means extra small) jersey, who cannot fill it out, is REALLY REALLY LEAN. This is just common sense.

How to improve their bone density is simple. Get a good strength and conditioning coach, improve your bodies lactate energy pathways (you'll become more explosive) and put some muscle mass on whilst increasing bone density. Tejay's countrymen, American's are some of the BEST in this field worldwide. He should hire one. Yes that means lifting weights.

Yes I think if you chose not to lift weights and ride only, you're doing yourself a disservice. At the minimum, your muscular skeletal system will improve and grow stronger.
You've made some good points in this thread, but that's just silly! Google words like leverage, momentum, force... Low bone density makes it easier to break a bone, but there is a lot a play with the collar bone.
 
So long as Froome is winning GTs, riders will never think you can be too thin to win.

Although, it seems for a lot of coaches the universal solution to bad performance is to drop weight. Not sure about that, but I think the problems arise when riders who aren't naturally ectomorphic try to lean out too much. I always thought AC looked healthy and fit, as does Porte. But Bardet just looks like he's not strong enough. I raced MTBs a lot a long time ago and I always thought I race better when I did all-body strength training.

Is that Tejay's problem? Possibly. But I think it's more likely that what it shows is you really have to be extraordinary to podium in a GT, let alone win. He is a great rider IMO, but not extraordinary. (Hell, ALL the pro peolon are great riders) However, I won't rule out that he might be able to take the next step, a la Dumoulin or even Cadel Evans.
 
Jul 14, 2015
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Wow, we're still on the weight thing? We haven't even *** established he lost any weight in the first place! Someone made that up to explain his performances and now a bunch of pages later you're all discussing it as goddamn gospel. Come on.
 
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hazaran said:
Wow, we're still on the weight thing? We haven't even **** established he lost any weight in the first place! Someone made that up to explain his performances and now a bunch of pages later you're all discussing it as goddamn gospel. Come on.
So your assumption that he didn't lose weight outweighs anyone's assumption that he did? Come on. They say a picture speaks 1,000 words. Just sayin'.
 
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ice&fire said:
This thread deserves resurrection after today's ride. He may only last until the day after tomorrow, though.
If only to mention that he finished with the leaders.

There are two rough stages ahead this week with hilltop finishes (Saturday's is more of a mtf) and if he can remain in top 3 that should help his confidence. Go TJVG!
 
May 22, 2013
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It wasn't steepy climb in fact and he had a really problem at the end. At the top he was losing time to Roche so I don't think he will be able to do something significant in this Vuelta. He has to ride very wisly in his own pace and then use his TT abilities (I believe he still remember how to do it) and maybe he ends in top10.
 
Jul 3, 2017
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MatParker117 said:
If rumours are to be believed then based on today I look forward to him taking the black .
Is TJ taking the oath and joining the Night''s Watch? Seriously, I thought he looked good today and looked really comfortable in the TTT. Also noticed that the odds on him getting on the podium dropped by a factor of 5 from 25 to 1 down to 5 to 1. Got to figure he is "all in" as his contract is up and he still wants to race GC in the future.

BTW, will you share some of those rumors? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
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PPAR-delta said:
MatParker117 said:
If rumours are to be believed then based on today I look forward to him taking the black .
Is TJ taking the oath and joining the Night''s Watch? Seriously, I thought he looked good today and looked really comfortable in the TTT. Also noticed that the odds on him getting on the podium dropped by a factor of 5 from 25 to 1 down to 5 to 1. Got to figure he is "all in" as his contract is up and he still wants to race GC in the future.

BTW, will you share some of those rumors? Inquiring minds want to know.
There's rumblings about a move to Sky, so with that Mikel Nieve photo of him on the Iron Throne and Sky's colour scheme, I figured a Night's Watch joke would make sense.
 
Jul 3, 2017
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Wow, I did not realize that Sky was in the conversation as a possible landing spot. Not sure how I feel about that. It strikes me as less of a night's watch thing and more of defection to the White Walkers.

Could you imagine the meltdown on this board if TJ were to go to Sky and resurrect his career? I am guessing the first thing Sky would do is make him give up Nutella.
 
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PPAR-delta said:
Wow, I did not realize that Sky was in the conversation as a possible landing spot. Not sure how I feel about that. It strikes me as less of a night's watch thing and more of defection to the White Walkers.

Could you imagine the meltdown on this board if TJ were to go to Sky and resurrect his career? I am guessing the first thing Sky would do is make him give up Nutella.
Resurrect his career ? If he went he'd be going as a domestique not as a team leader.
 
Jul 3, 2017
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movingtarget said:
PPAR-delta said:
Wow, I did not realize that Sky was in the conversation as a possible landing spot. Not sure how I feel about that. It strikes me as less of a night's watch thing and more of defection to the White Walkers.

Could you imagine the meltdown on this board if TJ were to go to Sky and resurrect his career? I am guessing the first thing Sky would do is make him give up Nutella.
Resurrect his career ? If he went he'd be going as a domestique not as a team leader.
I think you misinterpreted my point.

I am well aware he wouldn't be going to Sky as a leader (it doesn't appear he has options to go anywhere as a leader yet alone Sky). TJ has made a lot of money over the past few years and I doubt he aspires to be a domestic at Sky. IMO if he goes to Sky it would be to try and prove his value as a legitimate GC contender as have other Sky domestics (Porte, Uran, Landa, Rogers, Thomas, etc).

Do I think he will be able to do that? Most likely not. But if he did a board meltdown would ensue. That's all I was saying.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
PPAR-delta said:
Wow, I did not realize that Sky was in the conversation as a possible landing spot. Not sure how I feel about that. It strikes me as less of a night's watch thing and more of defection to the White Walkers.

Could you imagine the meltdown on this board if TJ were to go to Sky and resurrect his career? I am guessing the first thing Sky would do is make him give up Nutella.
Resurrect his career ? If he went he'd be going as a domestique not as a team leader.
He could lead a ranging in California.
 
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PPAR-delta said:
movingtarget said:
PPAR-delta said:
Wow, I did not realize that Sky was in the conversation as a possible landing spot. Not sure how I feel about that. It strikes me as less of a night's watch thing and more of defection to the White Walkers.

Could you imagine the meltdown on this board if TJ were to go to Sky and resurrect his career? I am guessing the first thing Sky would do is make him give up Nutella.
Resurrect his career ? If he went he'd be going as a domestique not as a team leader.
I think you misinterpreted my point.

I am well aware he wouldn't be going to Sky as a leader (it doesn't appear he has options to go anywhere as a leader yet alone Sky). TJ has made a lot of money over the past few years and I doubt he aspires to be a domestic at Sky. IMO if he goes to Sky it would be to try and prove his value as a legitimate GC contender as have other Sky domestics (Porte, Uran, Landa, Rogers, Thomas, etc).

Do I think he will be able to do that? Most likely not. But if he did a board meltdown would ensue. That's all I was saying.
I don't think he's an easy fit for any team. He never wins much, he never podiums much, he's not a quality domestique but he won a stage of the Giro and when the pressure was off and he had dropped over 30 minutes he seemed to ride better. I think his big contract days are over unless he starts win stages more regularly or become a notable domestique. I don't see see either happening. He is a top 10 or 20 GT rider who could do better in one week races, he has finished the Tour top 5 before but I think those days are gone. Has the ability to do better but just isn't getting the results and not sure which team would have him or even need him when there are probably better options. All I can say is that his Giro stage win could not have been more timely, whether he can build on that is another thing.
 
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yaco said:
You'll find that if TVG goes to Sky it will be as a domestique - Will probably lead races like TOC, TOP or similar.
Seems like a great use of his talents to put him in the train but his quotes from last years Vuelta are sobering:

"Getting bottles is not as easy as it looks. Riding on the front is definitely not as easy as it looks. It’s definitely given me a new perspective."

“I definitely think riding for the GC is one of the easiest jobs in the world. You get waited on hand and foot and your teammates take care of you and shelter you through the whole stage, and all you have to do is go hard in the final.
 
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myrideissteelerthanyours said:
yaco said:
You'll find that if TVG goes to Sky it will be as a domestique - Will probably lead races like TOC, TOP or similar.
Seems like a great use of his talents to put him in the train but his quotes from last years Vuelta are sobering:

"Getting bottles is not as easy as it looks. Riding on the front is definitely not as easy as it looks. It’s definitely given me a new perspective."

“I definitely think riding for the GC is one of the easiest jobs in the world. You get waited on hand and foot and your teammates take care of you and shelter you through the whole stage, and all you have to do is go hard in the final.
Much has changed in the last 12 months - Of course he will get good dollars at Sky.
 

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