Tennis

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May 11, 2009
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Djokovic has reached absurd new heights. It is depressing knowing that likely this will continue for years with no consequences and nobody even looking too hard into what he may be doing. History repeats itself once again.
 
Re:

Blakeslee said:
Djokovic has reached absurd new heights. It is depressing knowing that likely this will continue for years with no consequences and nobody even looking too hard into what he may be doing. History repeats itself once again.
The Joker is a joke. Guy does not even break a sweat when going up against a raging bull who smacks the daylights out of a tennis ball. He is obviously an exceptionally talented player who can make his opponents run around at will before applying the decisive blow; but for gawd sake man, breathe through your mouth every once in a while. You are making it look too obvious.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Hard time seeing one of them as obviously more doped than the other within the Big 3.

On face value, I would disagree. Rafa claims to have never spent a minute in a gym, which is a weird way to deflect questions about why he can destroy a tennis ball five sets in to a match. And check those arms.

But overall, I get your point. We are not talking about steroids to make a player resemble Popeye the Sailor Man.
 
Re: Re:

the delgados said:
Red Rick said:
Hard time seeing one of them as obviously more doped than the other within the Big 3.

On face value, I would disagree. Rafa claims to have never spent a minute in a gym, which is a weird way to deflect questions about why he can destroy a tennis ball five sets in to a match. And check those arms.

But overall, I get your point. We are not talking about steroids to make a player resemble Popeye the Sailor Man.
I would 100% believe players adapt their doping program to suit their game, but a lot of bulk isn't that helpful in hitting big, although it also depends on which shot and the specific kinetics of the shot.

Nadal being on steroids is something ex pro's have talked about, though I'm not gonna dig up the thread on /r/tennis. Right now I think it's much more important for their recovery than gaining muscle.

Really think oxygen vector doping is huge in tennis.
 
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
 
the delgados said:
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
 
TMP402 said:
the delgados said:
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
 
Cookster15 said:
TMP402 said:
the delgados said:
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
Be careful with so controversial and unpopular opinions in this thread.
 
Cookster15 said:
Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
Sort of makes her the shortest giant, no?
 
Cookster15 said:
TMP402 said:
the delgados said:
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
Except the tweet and split was in January/February and she's only just lost the number one ranking. Any other theories?
 
wansteadimp said:
Cookster15 said:
TMP402 said:
the delgados said:
I just learned that two-time Grand Slam winner Naomi Osaka sent a terse Twitter message saying she is ditching her coach. No explanation was provided.
Seems weird that she would suddenly part ways with the coach who helped her win two consecutive grand slams and rocket to number 1 in the world.
I know there are some people here who know a lot about the sport and am wondering if they have any opinion or knowledge why she ditched him.
Some are suggesting something to do with PEDs, but it is all speculation at this point. Obviously there could be any number of reasons, but the situation is odd.
I heard a different rumour which is that she wants/wanted to start a family with her man but her team opposed her doing so, which explains her dip in form and changes in her team.
The conjecture over Osaka is just that - conjecture and not very convincing conjecture at that. She was just knocked off as number 1 I think that might explain her terse Twitter post and dissatisfaction with her coach.

Osaka would be one of the least suspicious in women's tennis IMO. Then we have new world number 1 and French Open champ Ashleigh Barty - does not look suspicious either. Some of these women actually have skill with a racket I think that still counts for something?
Except the tweet and split was in January/February and she's only just lost the number one ranking. Any other theories?
Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
 
Cookster15 said:
Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Come on. Obviously no one is suggesting anything of the sort.

Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages.

To say a tennis player is no "...more suspicious than any other women in the top 20" means nothing. Is there anyone in the top 20 who isn't at least suspicious? I mean, come on. Many of the top 20 are not only suspicious but laughably, obviously, doping.

There are arguments in favor of her cleanliness to be made. Keep trying.
 
red_flanders said:
Cookster15 said:
Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages
I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.
 
Cookster15 said:
I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.
Same as I did with your post. We don't need straw men to defeat poor logic, we need good logic.

I don't have an argument with your assessment of Osaka, rather with the idea that doping won't improve skill. No one is suggesting it will and it's irrelevant to the question of doping. People used to argue that about baseball all the time, when it was rife with doping. It's a nonsensical position.
 
Cookster15 said:
red_flanders said:
Cookster15 said:
Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages
I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.
I dunno--winning two grand slams would be a start. Honestly, this is no knock on Osaka; I have no idea if she is on the gear. It just seemed weird that she dropped her coach after reaching he pinnacle of the sport. Who knows--maybe her coach was encouraging her to take it to another level. Point being is it okay to ask questions.
Also, curious to know what you mean by the real problems. If you agree that there are problems, you should understand why people ask questions about the world number 1.
 

nevele neves

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It is not so much the massive strength or power that someone has to look for.
The recovery time after training is what we don't know. Doping is a major factor for that recovery.
 
the delgados said:
Cookster15 said:
red_flanders said:
Cookster15 said:
Okay I didn't bother checking when the tweet was. But so what. I just don't think Osaka is any more suspicious than any other women in the top 20. As I said and you ignored in tennis if you have poor skill and hand eye coordination dope ain't gonna help you.
Doping can increase strength, stamina, and recovery––or all 3 depending on what you're doing. Seems fairly obvious why these benefits would offer massive advantages
I just drop in read loose logic not supported by facts or evidence and make a comment. Logic, reason and facts I don't respond to. If posters would provide valid evidence that Osaka shows suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery I would not bother commenting on this thread.

My bottom line on tennis is this: I am suspicious of Tennis, but Naomi Osaka is probably one of the least suspicious. When has Osaka displayed suspicious strength, stamina, and recovery? Some people might say that by bringing her up is deliberate deflection from the real problems.
I dunno--winning two grand slams would be a start. Honestly, this is no knock on Osaka; I have no idea if she is on the gear. It just seemed weird that she dropped her coach after reaching he pinnacle of the sport. Who knows--maybe her coach was encouraging her to take it to another level. Point being is it okay to ask questions.
Also, curious to know what you mean by the real problems. If you agree that there are problems, you should understand why people ask questions about the world number 1.
Poor choice of words by me. Not real problems but rather more likely suspicions. Dropping coaches happens all the time in Pro Tennis I see no correlation with doping suspicions. Osaka would be well down my list. BTW the new world number 1 is Ashleigh Barty. Maybe watch her play and then see how the game can be won without resorting to power.

Maybe recovery doping is going on but I see no strong evidence of this.
 
@Cookster:

There is no denying that both Osaka and Barty are tremendously gifted athletes. Also, Barty has a nice touch--e.g. changing pace of a point. Unless I have no idea what power tennis means, both Barty and Osaka can hit baseline bombs with the very best. I don't know if Barty is out of her teens, but regardless, she looks strong like bull. She has shoulders similar to those of Olympic rowers, and she has tremendous stamina.
Re No strong evidence of recovery doping. Admittedly I am just a layperson who played tennis at levels many depths of the sea below what we see on tv, but good lord, man. It does not take an expert to note players in their mid-thirties are barely breaking a sweat in matches that reach the fifth set. I am sure I don't need to remind you those players are.
Take a look back at matches between McEnroe and late 30's Connors back in the very early 90's. They were clearly knackered after a 5-set match.
 
the delgados said:
@Cookster:

There is no denying that both Osaka and Barty are tremendously gifted athletes. Also, Barty has a nice touch--e.g. changing pace of a point. Unless I have no idea what power tennis means, both Barty and Osaka can hit baseline bombs with the very best. I don't know if Barty is out of her teens, but regardless, she looks strong like bull. She has shoulders similar to those of Olympic rowers, and she has tremendous stamina.
Re No strong evidence of recovery doping. Admittedly I am just a layperson who played tennis at levels many depths of the sea below what we see on tv, but good lord, man. It does not take an expert to note players in their mid-thirties are barely breaking a sweat in matches that reach the fifth set. I am sure I don't need to remind you those players are.
Take a look back at matches between McEnroe and late 30's Connors back in the very early 90's. They were clearly knackered after a 5-set match.
I think you can attribute some of that to improved training/conditioning, but of course, not all. McEnroe was not in great shape, in any event. I've always considered tennis to be fertile ground for doping: A propensity to cheat (see: match fixing, whining like a baby if a call doesn't go your way); a cutthroat qualifying system that rewards playing in as many tournaments as humanely possible; satellite tournaments so far off the grid that they probably don't have electricity, let alone doping controls; a game that largely rewards power; and a huge risk/reward ratio.

I have zero doubt that Nadal doped early and often, and continues to do so. Same with Djoko. Federer? I suspect he's got some secret doctor that's keeping him on the legal side of the line, but just barely.
 

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