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blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
16,853
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0
thrawn said:
True regarding Tomic. The only player of the younger generation to have a breakthrough result. Pity he's such a knob and has daddy issues otherwise it would be very easy to support him. I do still enjoy his playing style (when he tries).

There was a bit of a gap in generational talent between the Sampras/Agassi & Federer/Nadal eras. There were a couple of years ago where players like Hewitt could win. Even Thomas Johansson managed to win a slam. Worst player in recent history to ever win one. The best teenagers were still able to make the top 100 in those days though. That doesn't happen now.

Oh and thanks Jimmy, didn't realise the blood passport was introduced for tennis.
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Hewitt won his slams in the weakest years for depth in the open era. andy roddick needed to make hay in those years he was 18,19,20,21 before Federer got his game and fitness up to speed. not a criticism of roddick, but he deserved to win half a dozen slams i reckon.
 
F

faraday

Jun 27, 2013
44
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mikehammer67 said:
12:35Another day, another retirement sadly. Michael Llodra withdraws from his second-round match against Andreas Seppi after dropping the first set 7-5. Not sure of the reason...

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/log/2013-06-27/201306271372323916739.html
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While THASP is definitely onto something, think some of the people on here may be getting a little over-excited and making 2+2=5 in some cases. To take two examples:

Llodra has retired 31 (thirty one!) times in his career, and is known as a bit of a quitter. Plus if his tactic was just to evade the testers, playing in the doubles later in the day was probably not the best idea...

Federer's game (unlike some of his peers) is based on touch and technique, not fitness or his ability to recover from epic 5-setters. I'm no doping expert, but not sure how doping would have helped with that. Am open to correction, though...

Agree that there seem to be some serious doubts about certain players fishy players, but think there's a danger of conflating defeats/retirements with genuine issues.
 
M

More Strides than Rides

Mar 15, 2011
2,760
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faraday said:
While THASP is definitely onto something, think some of the people on here may be getting a little over-excited and making 2+2=5 in some cases. To take two examples:

Llodra has retired 31 (thirty one!) times in his career, and is known as a bit of a quitter. Plus if his tactic was just to evade the testers, playing in the doubles later in the day was probably not the best idea...

Federer's game (unlike some of his peers) is based on touch and technique, not fitness or his ability to recover from epic 5-setters. I'm no doping expert, but not sure how doping would have helped with that. Am open to correction, though...

Agree that there seem to be some serious doubts about certain players fishy players, but think there's a danger of conflating defeats/retirements with genuine issues.
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I don't know enough about Tennis, but it is always easier to maintain your composure and sharp technique when you are more fit, especially in the later rounds. Maybe he doesn't need power, but he needs to stay sharp through the whole game: easiest to do when you have physical (and thus mental) stamina. Same reason why golfers (would) dope.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
16,853
2
0
faraday said:
While THASP is definitely onto something, think some of the people on here may be getting a little over-excited and making 2+2=5 in some cases. To take two examples:

Llodra has retired 31 (thirty one!) times in his career, and is known as a bit of a quitter. Plus if his tactic was just to evade the testers, playing in the doubles later in the day was probably not the best idea...

Federer's game (unlike some of his peers) is based on touch and technique, not fitness or his ability to recover from epic 5-setters. I'm no doping expert, but not sure how doping would have helped with that. Am open to correction, though...

Agree that there seem to be some serious doubts about certain players fishy players, but think there's a danger of conflating defeats/retirements with genuine issues.
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right. i am waiting for some more evidence, even circumstantial evidence. atm, it is withdrawals. coincidence as confirmation bias? (potentially)
 
F

faraday

Jun 27, 2013
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blackcat said:
right. i am waiting for some more evidence, even circumstantial evidence. atm, it is withdrawals. coincidence as confirmation bias? (potentially)
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Circumstantial is the right word - could be that they're genuine defeats/withdrawals AND they're doping, without the two being linked.

More Strides than Rides said:
I don't know enough about Tennis, but it is always easier to maintain your composure and sharp technique when you are more fit, especially in the later rounds. Maybe he doesn't need power, but he needs to stay sharp through the whole game: easiest to do when you have physical (and thus mental) stamina. Same reason why golfers (would) dope.
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Could be something in that - agree there's a link in tennis between physical and mental stamina - but would be interested to know the science behind it.

My initial thoughts are that at an amateur level that is absolutely fair. But to be a professional, these guys are already going to have pretty good physical stamina, and therefore pretty good mental stamina - by all means they could improve the former, but imagine there's some limit to how much you can improve mental stamina (it's certainly a finite thing). And if it's the mental stamina required (rather than power), surely you could take a drug that aids concentration rather than physical stamina - seems a bit indirect taking a physical drug to improve your mental stamina...
 
BroDeal

BroDeal

Mar 18, 2009
14,644
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ciucci said:
15th of June in Miami, just a week after the roland garros final she won.

I hope this picture is photoshopped...
article-2342363-1A570EB0000005DC-956_634x932.jpg
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Jesus F'n Christ on a pogostick. It looks like she should be a professional bowler, not a tennis player.

Did she find a practice court behind a Popeye's Chicken joint?
 
Z

zebedee

Jul 26, 2012
524
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9,580
You are making the mistake of drawing equivalence between men's and women's tennis. They are so different in speed, weight of shot and general all-round ability, that all the top women players would be ripped asunder by any top 100 ATP professional, Serena included.

Female professionals can get away with being pie eaters in comparison to the men. That why there's lots of scope for players who take the risk and dope. It accounts for why Sara Errani, a mere journeyman midget, was able through doping, to claw her way into the WTA top ten and reach the final of the French.

This talk of a match against Murray. Serena would barely win a point.
 
Briant_Gumble

Briant_Gumble

Aug 18, 2012
1,171
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Serena's match yesterday looked like a volatile shoot out. Every point was either a power winner or 4 metres outside the tramlines.

Against a retriever with the wingspan and touch/slice of Murray on either side she'd self destruct.

It might just be me but apart from Murray/Djokovic the skill level of the matches I've seen has been quite poor compared to recent years.
 
T

thrawn

May 2, 2010
1,692
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zebedee said:
You are making the mistake of drawing equivalence between men's and women's tennis. They are so different in speed, weight of shot and general all-round ability, that all the top women players would be ripped asunder by any top 100 ATP professional, Serena included.

Female professionals can get away with being pie eaters in comparison to the men. That why there's lots of scope for players who take the risk and dope. It accounts for why Sara Errani, a mere journeyman midget, was able through doping, to claw her way into the WTA top ten and reach the final of the French.

This talk of a match against Murray. Serena would barely win a point.
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She'd be beaten by the top 500. In an interview yesterday she admitted she wouldn't even win a game off Murray.
 
B

Bicycle

Aug 16, 2012
275
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Guy on bbc 5 live this morning said Serena would beat some of the players in the men's draw how clueless can you get?
 
The Hitch

The Hitch

Jun 14, 2010
34,930
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thrawn said:
She'd be beaten by the top 500. In an interview yesterday she admitted she wouldn't even win a game off Murray.
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Its already been done many times and the men almost always won even though the rules were edited to favour the women a bit more.

It would be more interesting if they did Australian doubles, 1 man vs a doubles team of women.
 
Z

zebedee

Jul 26, 2012
524
0
9,580
Bicycle said:
Guy on bbc 5 live this morning said Serena would beat some of the players in the men's draw how clueless can you get?
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He must have been referring to the junior event players. She might be able to beat one or two of them. Even they are capable of serving at 180k plus.
 
Z

zebedee

Jul 26, 2012
524
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9,580
Looks like Odesnik's goose is well and truly cooked. This from the THASP website:-

http://espn.go.com/tennis/wimbledon13/story/_/id/9427242/wimbledon-questions-surround-wayne-odesnik

And this is a guy who has already been busted once and served a ban. It shows just how routine the doping in tennis actually is. That a guy can just pick up where he left off before and not have to worry about the dope tests that he knows he'll pass, shows how feeble the anti-doping is.

The ITF has known about all this for months and still not opened a case. Maybe they're working on catching the bigger fish. Don't hold your breath.
 
Cycle Chic

Cycle Chic

Sep 26, 2009
2,848
1
11,485
thrawn said:
Ironically Llodra played doubles later, only to have his opponents withdraw...
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Smacks of match fixing....looks like he knew he would go through in the doubles

Jan Hajek and Jaroslav Levinsky - Levinsky withdrew with a back problem - yeh right !!
 
Cycle Chic

Cycle Chic

Sep 26, 2009
2,848
1
11,485
Nadal

Thanks for that Michael Emmet article...at last a David Walsh of the Tennis World.
Michael spent several years working in sports television at TSN and Sportsnet. Michael is a former National champion who finished his last year of junior tennis ranked #1 in Canada.

Well, there are just as many Nadal rumours out there. I sat in a locker room a few years back and listened to three coaches discussing the steroids that Nadal was taking. One of the coaches, who was from Columbia, said he saw Nadal ingesting some sort of PEDs prior to a workout session in Monte Carlo. I know this is all hearsay, but enough people in the know have come forward to say they’ve seen it – I believe this will all come out one day – just like it did for Lance Armstrong .... Nadal’s use of banned substances is something I am very sure of. Where there is smoke there is fire and this one is burning brightly.
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http://oncourt.ca/?p=6329
 
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