Tennis

[Sciocco]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/s...continues-to-struggle-with-injuries.html?_r=0:

“Since Delpo’s had it on both wrists, this is very troubling,” said Brad Gilbert, Agassi’s former coach. “But he’s still young at 26, so let’s hope he can do it.”

In 2009, Del Potro beat Nadal three straight times before upsetting Federer to win the United States Open. But he missed nearly all of the following season because of surgery on his right wrist. He started 2011 season with a ranking of 258, still hesitant to summon the full thunder on his groundstrokes, and then slowly rebuilt his career. He reached three Grand Slam quarterfinals and won the Olympic bronze in singles in 2012, then reached the semifinals at Wimbledon in 2013, losing a classic five-set match to Djokovic.

They played two more thrillers to close out that season, with Djokovic winning in the Shanghai final and at the World Tour Finals in London.

It appeared then that Del Potro, back in the top four, had reconstructed the platform necessary to raise his game to a higher level in 2014. Instead, he played only 10 matches and underwent surgery on his left wrist in March.

“When you hear him make contact with the ball when he’s 100 percent, you can just hear the crack of the contact,” Del Potro’s surgeon, Dr. Richard Berger, said of his patient in a New York Times story last year. “It’s almost like the ball is going, for a moment, supersonic. There’s such tremendous transfer of total body energy.

“This is energy that springs from the legs, up through the spine, down the arm to the forearm and across the wrist to the racket,” he continued. “At some point, either through genetics or the playing style, the structural integrity of any of those structures is exceeded. For any given individual, the force is greater than the structures are capable of withstanding. That’s where the injury comes from.”

That of course raises the question of whether Del Potro’s structures ever will be able to handle the forces he generates for long.

The right-handed Del Potro has hit plenty of forehands during his long layoff, but he said his two-handed backhand continued to cause him pain and concern.

If you read his wiki page he has injuries (wrist, thigh, back, abdominal, and so on) all the time starting in 2007.

He then reached the second round of the Australian Open, where he had to retire because of injury in his match against eventual finalist Fernando González in the fifth set.

He then made it to the second round of the Australian Open in January, only to retire against David Ferrer due to an injury.[53] Del Potro returned to the circuit in March, winning his first match against Jesse Levine at the Sony Ericsson Open, before losing in the second round to López.[54] Struggling with injuries, his ranking fell as low as no. 81 in April. "At the start of the year, I was playing good, but I had many injuries, many problems with my body, with my physique", said del Potro. "I changed my coach, changed my physical trainer, I changed everything."[55]

In May, del Potro had to retire again, this time in a first-round match against Andy Murray at the Rome Masters. During the second set, the Argentine allegedly made derogatory comments about Murray's mother which resulted in a complaint to the umpire.[56] Del Potro's serve was subsequently broken three times in a row, and he suffered a back injury, which caused his retirement.

LOL

JMDP, I'd like to see him put it all together once more, but I have my doubts and maybe he should retire to preserve his health.

 

[robow7]

Re: Re:

[/quote]
Also on this point, I remember a rumour after Fed won his first Wimb in 03 that he would only survive 7 years in the sport or something since his forehand was so taxing on the wrist.
\[/quote]

Actually Fed does not have a super wristy forehand, it's not designed around a big western grip and huge topspin like many others. When he comes over his backhand, now that can be somewhat wristy.

Now this is a wristy forehand and why I don't think Jack Sock will ever make it to the top, the timing is so difficult let alone the wear on the joint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWqrVOW_-SE

 

[SeriousSam]

Wasn't Federer's measured average top spin RPM below only Nadal's not too long ago? It's a very top spin heavy forehand.

But Federer is unique with his lack of injuries. For years, he was literally never injured, ever. Even now, he's still been injured less than anyone else in the top 10 I would guess.

Djokovic has also been very injury free since his transformation in 2011, and whilst with Federer, you can see how the style might be less strenuous, the same cannot be said for Djokovic's extreme stretch for every ball style.

 

[thrawn]

Re:

Wasn't Federer's measured average top spin RPM below only Nadal's not too long ago? It's a very top spin heavy forehand.

But Federer is unique with his lack of injuries. For years, he was literally never injured, ever. Even now, he's still been injured less than anyone else in the top 10 I would guess.

Djokovic has also been very injury free since his transformation in 2011, and whilst with Federer, you can see how the style might be less strenuous, the same cannot be said for Djokovic's extreme stretch for every ball style.

Injuries can be genetic lottery. Some guys in sports get injured a lot, some don't.

Djokovic's ability to slide like that is also genetic lottery. Even the other dopers can't replicate it. Hewitt once said he tried to copy it and felt like he was going to break his ankle so stopped immediately.

 

[The Hitch]

Nadal in his postgame interview sounded half like a retirement speech. Admitted he won't be back to the level of 08,09.

Still, he doesn't need another Wimbledon. 1 more AO, and 2 more French and hell surpass fed imo.

 

[thrawn]

Re:

Nadal in his postgame interview sounded half like a retirement speech. Admitted he won't be back to the level of 08,09.

Still, he doesn't need another Wimbledon. 1 more AO, and 2 more French and hell surpass fed imo.

It's because he knows he can't physically match the other guys any more. He won't win another slam.

 

[Zebadeedee]

All Argentine players dope. Every single one of them. With Del Potro, he's more than likely genetically predisposed to overuse injury too (what my sports doctor once explained to me; I never doped of course). Combine that with overdoing the peds and voilà, he's stuffed. I reckon the same with Nadal's knees. He just cannot move as he did. He's stuffed too. Half a step slower, as Rusedski, rudely (and wrongly), once said of Sampras.

 

[SeriousSam]

This seems to be a very healthy and safe style of tennis:

He does that countless times, every single match

 

[robow7]

Re:

Wasn't Federer's measured average top spin RPM below only Nadal's not too long ago? It's a very top spin heavy forehand.

Nadal's forehand by far generates the most top spin, one of the highest if not the highest rpm's ever recorded.

Federer does open his wrist up on the backswing but everyone does that in modern tennis, it's the trunk rotating, the arm moving forward and the open wrist closing that generate the spin and pace that the game has evolved into.

 

[fenns]

Re:

Nadal in his postgame interview sounded half like a retirement speech. Admitted he won't be back to the level of 08,09.

Still, he doesn't need another Wimbledon. 1 more AO, and 2 more French and hell surpass fed imo.

He's not winning any more slams - whatever he's been doing to his body it doesn't work any more - diminishing returns maybe...

 

[blackcat]

Re:

He does that countless times, every single match

veinous striation in forearm reminds one of the greek deity priapus. its quite the imprimatur of health, and would seek to render merck patent on viagra irrelevant.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Nadal in his postgame interview sounded half like a retirement speech. Admitted he won't be back to the level of 08,09.

Still, he doesn't need another Wimbledon. 1 more AO, and 2 more French and hell surpass fed imo.

He's not winning any more slams - whatever he's been doing to his body it doesn't work any more - diminishing returns maybe...

market efficiency metaphor, actually, works as the analogy

we have other players doping, losing weight, maintaining their groundstroke power at 5% less weight, greater endurance at the lighter weight, no doubt some are also supplementing epo or autologous blood. but even testo can still raise the crit 2% higher.

 

[the delgados]

None of whom have won as many tournaments and made as much money as Rafa. Maybe he no longer gives a rats ass about tennis.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

None of whom have won as many tournaments and made as much money as Rafa. Maybe he no longer gives a rats ass about tennis.

that is because Rafa and Uncle Toni were the early adopters of full *** in tennis.

So he got the others whilst they were in pre-school, and he was in mode de full ***.

so, delgados, your analogy must give the current full *** crowd, an opportunity to play their tourneys and their competition when their competition is in preschool yet they play in full ***.

the point was, everyone has gone full ***, but there are only the same amount of tourneys, so there are no greater amount of spoils to be divided between the current crowd of full retarders. (see: thats the noun, full retarders)

 

[the delgados]

Full Retarders
If Harmony Korine ever made a movie about cycling, that would be the perfect title.

 

[the delgados]

or tennis, for that matter.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Full Retarders
If Harmony Korine ever made a movie about cycling, that would be the perfect title.

did i tell you on successfully optioning my zombie script "Attack of the Silly Cones!". The hi-concept zombie, was female zombies in San Fernando valley kidnap small puppies from a dogpound in the valley and hold a plastic surgery clinic hostage with the executive chairman of Dow Corning. I wanted three different directors for the three different acts, Vincent Gallo, John Waters and Lynch. I am not sure if that can be achieved.

 

[blackcat]

cones is colloquial for mammaries in australia http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=breasts
phonetic pun on silicon

 

[The Hitch]

The bbc was showing some highlights from the Ivanisevic Rafter final. Obviously notable that unlike this generation they actually got tired in a 5 setter.
Anyway, the thing that stands out is that there's not a single point that goes more than 4 shots and what's more, no matter how much you will it you just can't see a proper rally coming at any point. Its like the physics were totally different, than they would be even a few years later in Fed vs Nadal matches. I wonder how much of that is due to the change in balls, and how much due to players like the "big 4" coming onto the scene who have unreal court coverage and can smash it at 200 miles an hour from anywhere.

Also, a slight digression, but I wonder whether if Murray wasn't British it would still be called "the big 4". Obviously he has been the 4th best player over the last 7 or so years, though at times some others have been better. But there are far more differences between him and the other 3 than similarities. They are 1-2-3 in Masters titles. Murray is 10th, with 10. Federer who is the worst of the other 3 has 23. They have each had long spells at world number 1 - Nadal 141 weeks, Djoker 154, Fed 301. Murray has never been number 1. They are each all time greats in Grand Slams titles. Murray has 2, maybe 3 next week.
They each compete on clay, Murray, always loses once he meets one of them in Paris.
In fact, Murray has a losing head to head record to all 3. In Grandslams he has won 5 out of 19 matches against them and 4 of those went to 5 sets with 1 being a retirement.

Anyway, now the whole big 4 thing is dying anyway as Nadal sucks, Federer declines and Wawrinka has becomes something of a phenom.

 

[Sciocco]

Re:

The bbc was showing some highlights from the Ivanisevic Rafter final. Obviously notable that unlike this generation they actually got tired in a 5 setter.
Anyway, the thing that stands out is that there's not a single point that goes more than 4 shots and what's more, no matter how much you will it you just can't see a proper rally coming at any point. Its like the physics were totally different, than they would be even a few years later in Fed vs Nadal matches. I wonder how much of that is due to the change in balls, and how much due to players like the "big 4" coming onto the scene who have unreal court coverage and can smash it at 200 miles an hour from anywhere.

Also, a slight digression, but I wonder whether if Murray wasn't British it would still be called "the big 4". Obviously he has been the 4th best player over the last 7 or so years, though at times some others have been better. But there are far more differences between him and the other 3 than similarities. They are 1-2-3 in Masters titles. Murray is 10th, with 10. Federer who is the worst of the other 3 has 23. They have each had long spells at world number 1 - Nadal 141 weeks, Djoker 154, Fed 301. Murray has never been number 1. They are each all time greats in Grand Slams titles. Murray has 2, maybe 3 next week.
They each compete on clay, Murray, always loses once he meets one of them in Paris.
In fact, Murray has a losing head to head record to all 3. In Grandslams he has won 5 out of 19 matches against them and 4 of those went to 5 sets with 1 being a retirement.

Anyway, now the whole big 4 thing is dying anyway as Nadal sucks, Federer declines and Wawrinka has becomes something of a phenom.

The big 4 is mostly BS, especially when it comes to Murray for exactly what you listed. I guess I only see english media though, so I wonder if other media has been pushing "the big four" for the last quite a few years. Fed, Nadal, and Djoko will be(are?) listed as greats in the Tennis sporting world*, whereas Murray is a two time slam winner who will remain known mostly in Britain I would think.

*Unless of course, serious anti-doping culture spreads through tennis. LOL

 

[robow7]

Hitch,
the reason the game at Wimbly is no longer similar to Goran vs. Rafter is due to a few issues (we won't talk about peds)
First the grass is grown and cut now to be a much slower surface. More similar to hard court surfaces of the past. Why? Because people no longer enjoyed a serve fest from Edberg vs. Becker, rallies were to short and monotonous. Racquet technology and string technology have also changed the game dramatically as well. No one makes a steady diet of serve and volley anymore, as Fed said, it's too high risk in today's game. With today's racquets and strings, one can put the ball away from the baseline or without even venturing into mid court. When that wasn't possible, you had to move in closer to the net in order to obtain an angle that the opponent could not run down. Hell, today you can hit an excellent serve but the return from our enlarged racquets with their super sized sweet spots comes back at the server almost as fast as he ripped it. But let's say you make a beautiful penetrating first volley inside the T (of which almost no one does any more) and you have Murray, Nadal, or Djoker 12 feet behind the baseline on the dead run and they're fully extended and yet they can still with today's graphite and poly strings rip a passing shot that you can't get to and yet they impart so much spin to the ball with poly strings that the ball drops like off a cliff and lands well within the baseline.

To see how the game has changed, look at these two finals on you tube and see where the grass is worn to dirt after 2 weeks, in the old days it would be right up the middle of the court and length wise along the net, Look at the more recent final and you'll see the baseline and behind is totally worn out and yet near the net, the grass will look almost new. Startling difference says it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGEQxIIWAKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degaifkmivk

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The big 4 is mostly BS, especially when it comes to Murray for exactly what you listed. I guess I only see english media though, so I wonder if other media has been pushing "the big four" for the last quite a few years. Fed, Nadal, and Djoko will be(are?) listed as greats in the Tennis sporting world*, whereas Murray is a two time slam winner who will remain known mostly in Britain I would think.

*Unless of course, serious anti-doping culture spreads through tennis. LOL

murray dopes too, and he was getting frustrated, so went full *** about 3 years B E F O R E he won Wimbledon, now (this is my intuition), he has gone back to his old doping, which is just staying in the ballgame choose ur pun, back to a maintenance doping, much like what he was a few years before he switched to his Wimbledon build for his career and English sport magnum opus. forget everything, Ashes, Kevin Pietersen, Olympics, chariots of fire, redgrave, gordonstoun... forget it all. Murray at Wimbledon trumped it. strawberries and cream. but then he backed off his doping, went back to what he was doing before, which was enough to get a toehold in the top 10, but not enough to entrench him as a Big 4, it required Wimbledon.

just my intuition, no proof that will satisfy empire crew.

Nadal caused Djokavic to go the full *** route, and put together about the best ever single season by a professional tennis player. Thats what happens when talent meets full *** when your competition aint yet full ***. Then Murray decided "fukc this, i'm gonna try this full *** thing cos I wanna win strawberries and cream". Now everyone is on full ***, and the tennis players behaviour has got even worse because of all these androgens coursing thru their veins! See the Australian Nick Kyrgios, just as bad as McEnroe, but take him off the doping, and he would be a boy scout.

see: Serena threatening the lineswoman to gut her like a pig and shove the ball down her throat.

i may have used some license, not 100% sure, and most of her management, no , bad grammar, her people, her management, and her people/handlers/management got onto Youtube and managed to get most of those clips taken off Youtube. Just like Armstrong got the XtraNormal "Michelob takes like cats pi$$ and stfu Levi!" clips taken down. They were genius. i would have been proud to make them.

 

[Sciocco]

Re: Re:

The big 4 is mostly BS, especially when it comes to Murray for exactly what you listed. I guess I only see english media though, so I wonder if other media has been pushing "the big four" for the last quite a few years. Fed, Nadal, and Djoko will be(are?) listed as greats in the Tennis sporting world*, whereas Murray is a two time slam winner who will remain known mostly in Britain I would think.

*Unless of course, serious anti-doping culture spreads through tennis. LOL

murray dopes too, and he was getting frustrated, so went full *** about 3 years B E F O R E he won Wimbledon, now (this is my intuition), he has gone back to his old doping, which is just staying in the ballgame choose ur pun, back to a maintenance doping, much like what he was a few years before he switched to his Wimbledon build for his career and English sport magnum opus. forget everything, Ashes, Kevin Pietersen, Olympics, chariots of fire, redgrave, gordonstoun... forget it all. Murray at Wimbledon trumped it. strawberries and cream. but then he backed off his doping, went back to what he was doing before, which was enough to get a toehold in the top 10, but not enough to entrench him as a Big 4, it required Wimbledon.

just my intuition, no proof that will satisfy empire crew.

Nadal caused Djokavic to go the full *** route, and put together about the best ever single season by a professional tennis player. Thats what happens when talent meets full *** when your competition aint yet full ***. Then Murray decided "fukc this, i'm gonna try this full *** thing cos I wanna win strawberries and cream". Now everyone is on full ***, and the tennis players behaviour has got even worse because of all these androgens coursing thru their veins! See the Australian Nick Kyrgios, just as bad as McEnroe, but take him off the doping, and he would be a boy scout.

see: Serena threatening the lineswoman to gut her like a pig and shove the ball down her throat.

i may have used some license, not 100% sure, and most of her management, no , bad grammar, her people, her management, and her people/handlers/management got onto Youtube and managed to get most of those clips taken off Youtube. Just like Armstrong got the XtraNormal "Michelob takes like cats pi$$ and stfu Levi!" clips taken down. They were genius. i would have been proud to make them.

Absolutely, they all do.

 

[fenns]

I'm wondering when exactly we'll start hearing about Serena having flu so she can take a remedy with stimulant properties under a TUE.

 

[sniper]

with Watson the Brits have a new doping guinea pig.

"It was in Australia two years ago that Watson first felt the signs of what proved to be glandular fever..."
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/30892207

THASP on glandular fever:
http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.com/2012/04/on-mononucleosis.html