Tennis

[blackcat]

A wildcard, isn't a qualifier. They don't play the qualification rounds, therefore don't have the same amount of "accumulated fatigue" that a qualifier would have.

come one, youre being overly tedious

 

[Andynonomous]

come one, youre being overly tedious

It was you who gave the example, using the qualifier as being more tired, because he has to qualify. Then you say the wildcard is the same thing, when the wildcard does not play qualifying rounds, therefore wouldn't have the same level of accumulated fatigue in the tournament.

Now you say Nadal, who has a MUCH better 5 set winning record than Federer, even though he has a more tiring playing style, isn't an indicator of Nadal being more likely to use stamina boosting drugs.

It is you who is being tedious.

 

[Andynonomous]

the knock on Fed was the same as Djoker early in his career.

endurance

Unlike Lance Armstrong and other "climbers" in cycling. High stamina = likely EPO users. Federer has weak stamina (compared to Nadal), even though he has a less taxing playing style, therefore Federer is MUCH less likely doping.


So you admit Federer has less stamina, yet you argue that his 5 set record doesn't mean he has less stamina.


Don't be so tedious.

 

[blackcat]

Unlike Lance Armstrong and other "climbers" in cycling. High stamina = likely EPO users. Federer has weak stamina (compared to Nadal), even though he has a less taxing playing style, therefore Federer is MUCH less likely doping.


So you admit Federer has less stamina, yet you argue that his 5 set record doesn't mean he has less stamina.


Don't be so tedious.

salient caveat: early in his career

 

[Andynonomous]

salient caveat: early in his career

His stamina hasn't improved significantly throughout his career. If it had, he wouldn't have a significantly worse career five set record than the other top players (Murray, Nadal, Djokovic all have career winning 5 set records over .700). He just lost to Djokovic in 5 sets yesterday, even though he had spent MUCH less time on court through the first 6 rounds, and plays a more attacking style than Djokovic does(shorter points).

Career fifth set winning percentage :
Roger Federer : 537
Novak Djokovic : 733
Andy Murray : 739
Rafael Nadal : 762

Roger has always faded against the other top players in a long match, and he continues to do so now.

 

[the sceptic]

Djokovic had a a donkey-racehorse esque transformation in 2011. Federer has always had good stamina, but nothing close to that or to that of Nadal.

 

[Benotti69]

Kimmage met a former tennis player

Two weeks ago, at a friend's wedding in Wicklow, I bumped into a former tennis player who would have spent the whole night talking about doping in cycling. But when I suggested his sport was possibly as bad he didn't want to know. There was nothing I could say . . . The ITF's indifference to testing; The top players' miraculous recovery rates; The cover-up of Andre Agassi's positive for methamphetamine in 1997; The association of Luis Del Moral - the Valencia-based doctor who had worked with Armstrong - with the sport; . . . to convince him.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/inh...f-them-all-30409273.html#sthash.s8uFr1rx.dpuf

 

[SeriousSam]

His stamina hasn't improved significantly throughout his career. If it had, he wouldn't have a significantly worse career five set record than the other top players (Murray, Nadal, Djokovic all have career winning 5 set records over .700). He just lost to Djokovic in 5 sets yesterday, even though he had spent MUCH less time on court through the first 6 rounds, and plays a more attacking style than Djokovic does(shorter points).

Career fifth set winning percentage :
Roger Federer : 537
Novak Djokovic : 733
Andy Murray : 739
Rafael Nadal : 762

Roger has always faded against the other top players in a long match, and he continues to do so now.

What are these 5th set percentages evidence for/against?

 

[Andynonomous]

What are these 5th set percentages evidence for/against?

You can't be serious (Sam).


Of course, the less the deterioration in performance over the course of competition, the greater the suspicion that the athlete is using stamina boosting drugs. If a player has a better 5 set winning record than another, that is circumstantial evidence that they are more likely to be using stamina-boosting substances. Think Lance Armstrong in late mountain stages 1999 to 2005.

 

[Ticker]

Kimmage met a former tennis player
http://www.independent.ie/sport/inh...f-them-all-30409273.html#sthash.s8uFr1rx.dpuf

When it comes to the use of PEDs in Tennis, fans, commentators and players (current and past) are delusional. On Tennis message boards, if you level accusations against any player you get banned.

I remember reading that Kimmage also interviewed Nadal regarding his involvement with Fuentes/Operacion Puerto and got nothing out of the interview. I think he should now try with Ferrer, Errani and others who have had contact with Del Moral and TennisVal.

His stamina hasn't improved significantly throughout his career. If it had, he wouldn't have a significantly worse career five set record than the other top players (Murray, Nadal, Djokovic all have career winning 5 set records over .700). He just lost to Djokovic in 5 sets yesterday, even though he had spent MUCH less time on court through the first 6 rounds, and plays a more attacking style than Djokovic does(shorter points).

Career fifth set winning percentage :
Roger Federer : 537
Novak Djokovic : 733
Andy Murray : 739
Rafael Nadal : 762

Roger has always faded against the other top players in a long match, and he continues to do so now.

Federer's 5th record has always being woeful even when he was in his prime. I don't expect that to change as he gets older.

 

[Red Rick]

When it comes to the use of PEDs in Tennis, fans, commentators and players (current and past) are delusional. On Tennis message boards, if you level accusations against any player you get banned.

Not where I post. It's just that there isn't a place to properly discuss it so any doping accusation is just one thing in the entire discussion.

Really don't know if this is allowed here, but there are people out there who knows that theres **** that stinks in tennis.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=454746&highlight=doping

 

[Ticker]

Not where I post. It's just that there isn't a place to properly discuss it so any doping accusation is just one thing in the entire discussion.

Really don't know if this is allowed here, but there are people out there who knows that theres **** that stinks in tennis.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=454746&highlight=doping

Yes Red Rick, TT seem to be more lenient than MTF, TT instead just delete threads and posts But I also agree that there does not seem to be a place were it can be properly be discussed. It would be good if there was a "Clinic" type sub-forum on those boards.

 

[SeriousSam]

You can't be serious (Sam).


Of course, the less the deterioration in performance over the course of competition, the greater the suspicion that the athlete is using stamina boosting drugs. If a player has a better 5 set winning record than another, that is circumstantial evidence that they are more likely to be using stamina-boosting substances. Think Lance Armstrong in late mountain stages 1999 to 2005.

It's very weak evidence because there are a ton of other variables affecting 5th set winning percentages, not even just the non-substance contributors to superior fitness.

 

[Andynonomous]

“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”

Kimmage takes another shot at tennis.

Although cycling has one of the toughest testing programs, I suspect that it still isn't one of the cleanest sports.

 

[sniper]

“Possibly, and this may sound ridiculous, cycling is one of the cleanest sports left because the controls are full on. But f***ing tennis, I find it nauseating to watch it on TV to see the McEnroes and all the commentators engage in this big love-in. And the bottom line is we are all getting rich here folks, lets not upset the apple-cart.”

Kimmage takes another shot at tennis.

very spot on, the "we're all getting rich here" comment.
it is why there are so few journos like kimmage. not because they are all brainless (although many are), but because they all prefer the money over integrity.

Although cycling has one of the toughest testing programs, I suspect that it still isn't one of the cleanest sports.

it is likely cleaner than soccer and tennis, which i think kimmage had in mind. (i don't think he was thinking about darts or curling)

 

[Avoriaz]

Agree with the comments on the tennis love in. It seems to be the only sport where the commentators and pundits refer to the players by their Christian name only as if they are best buddies.

Andy this, Nowak that, ooh Rafa, isn't Roger wonderful

Pass the bucket

 

[sniper]

Agree with the comments on the tennis love in. It seems to be the only sport where the commentators and pundits refer to the players by their Christian name only as if they are best buddies.

Andy this, Nowak that, ooh Rafa, isn't Roger wonderful

Pass the bucket

, true story
(only on anglosaxon tv though, afaik)

 

[Jerkovin]

You guys make it sound like there aren't a load of cyclists with (relatively) **** stamina, or sprinters for that matter, who dope.

There are a multitude of reasons why any tennis player could be a doper, and Federer is not exempt from them just because his tennis looks nice.

 

[Akuryo]

I said it before and I say it again: Cycling and only a few others sports are tested so often. 3x a year bloodtesting (minimum). Countless tests of urin after each and every stage. Soccer/Football (whatever you want to call it) -players are practically never tested. Three guys after the game have to give a urin-sample. Wow, no wonder this sport is "clean".

 

[Andynonomous]

...

There are a multitude of reasons why any tennis player could be a doper, and Federer is not exempt from them just because his tennis looks nice.

This is the modus operandi of a Nadal fan. To bring up Federer, even though nobody mentioned Nadal. I wonder why ?

 

[Benotti69]

WADA President Craig Reedy on the radio now, off the ball newtalk.ie, claiming tennis are up to speed with their anti doping. What a load of bollix!

WADA are IOC's pr for doping, IMO.

 

[Andynonomous]

WADA President Craig Reedy on the radio now, off the ball newtalk.ie, claiming tennis are up to speed with their anti doping. What a load of bollix!

WADA are IOC's pr for doping, IMO.

The reason Reedy got his job, was because the last leadership at Wada was kicked out by Bitti, and McQuaid, ... This is what Bitti said just before the last WADA elections :

"Relations with WADA have deteriorated significantly and the lack of help and support from WADA against a background of constant media criticism of its sports 'partners' and the consequent breakdown of trust need to be addressed as a priority," the Italian, who is President of the International Tennis Federation, wrote in a letter to Rogge.

Bitti couldn't handle the criticism of tennis's weak testing, after Armstrong confessed.

No wonder Reedy is saying the same type of BS that McQuaid used to say. It is not the same organization it used to be under Richard Pound. WADA has been compromised.

 

[bewildered]

Wrist injury forces Nadal out of Toronto and Cincinnati Masters. Perhaps he'll be back stronger than ever for the USO

 

[frenchfry]

Wrist injury forces Nadal out of Toronto and Cincinnati Masters. Perhaps he'll be back stronger than ever for the USO

EXACTLY what I thought.

 

[Gavandope]

EXACTLY what I thought.

His knees on hard courts are the main problem for him - will be king of clay for a few more years yet.