Tennis

[SeriousSam]

What makes Djokovic so comical is his sudden improvement in fitness in 2011. Like thrawn said, from struggling with set 5 matches for years to winning in 5 hours in the AO semi and then beating Nadal, an off the charts PED induced fit player, in another 5 hours of grueling super intensity tennis. It's like his VO2max doubled overnight.

 

[infeXio]

The gluten was to blame!

 

[blackcat]

What makes Djokovic so comical is his sudden improvement in fitness in 2011. Like thrawn said, from struggling with set 5 matches for years to winning in 5 hours in the AO semi and then beating Nadal, an off the charts PED induced fit player, in another 5 hours of grueling super intensity tennis. It's like his VO2max doubled overnight.

just because someone is the fittest, is not correlated to doping axiomatically. Just like a survivor fallacy would imply that he is the fittest prima facie.

but, what if everyone is doping (hypothetical).

and what is the advantage doping plays in 10%. And, the DQ aphorism about marginal gains not being a rounding error on a comprehensive doping program, this would indicate the fittest player has a natural endurance of +10% more than anyone else.

NOT NORMAL

if those beneath, around, and above you are doping, yet then you are improving to ahead of the flock? sounds legit

 

[zebedee]

They used to say pro-tennis was a young man's game; Bjorn Borg dropping out at the tender age of twenty five, for example, after he lost a U.S. Open final to John McEnroe.

Drugs changed all that. Barrel-chested Agassi won more grand slam titles after his twenty ninth birthday than he did in his prime, winning them well into his thirties. He later confessed to doping, sort of.

Then of course there's David Ferrer, the near-miraculous Daveed, he who denies ever knowing Luis Garcia del Moral despite them both being associated with the same Valencian training academy; incredible stamina, big upper body development typical of steroids, Daveed finds overnight redemption in 2009/10 having fallen out the top twenty then surges into the world top five and stays there well after the age of thirty. The older he got the fitter he became. Laughable.

Now we have his compatriot, Feliciano Lopez, an ATP career playboy. He's just now reached a career-high world ranking of thirteen in his thirty fourth year.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Feliciano-Lopez.aspx

Unreal.

 

[go crazy]

Maybe fitness wise yes but he was an exceptional technical player before then he just didn't have amazing endurance and recovery like he does now.

I completely agree with this. He probably is the best player today skill-wise, I'm not arguing that. His recovery ability took a ridiculous leap forward several years ago and that's what is unbelievable.

 

[blackcat]

I completely agree with this. He probably is the best player today skill-wise, I'm not arguing that. His recovery ability took a ridiculous leap forward several years ago and that's what is unbelievable.

djokavic murray and fed are a level above. fed and djokovic or djokavic have him pipped tho, but Djokavic is a defender unpeered. he can cover soooo much court, he may as well play doubles as a singles player against the Bryan brothers. he just cant match them in their chest bumps

 

[Ticker]

They used to say pro-tennis was a young man's game; Bjorn Borg dropping out at the tender age of twenty five, for example, after he lost a U.S. Open final to John McEnroe.

Drugs changed all that. Barrel-chested Agassi won more grand slam titles after his twenty ninth birthday than he did in his prime, winning them well into his thirties. He later confessed to doping, sort of.

Then of course there's David Ferrer, the near-miraculous Daveed, he who denies ever knowing Luis Garcia del Moral despite them both being associated with the same Valencian training academy; incredible stamina, big upper body development typical of steroids, Daveed finds overnight redemption in 2009/10 having fallen out the top twenty then surges into the world top five and stays there well after the age of thirty. The older he got the fitter he became. Laughable.

Now we have his compatriot, Feliciano Lopez, an ATP career playboy. He's just now reached a career-high world ranking of thirteen in his thirty fourth year.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Feliciano-Lopez.aspx

Unreal.

Yes, all these players who had no major success in their younger years all of a sudden reaching slam finals for the first time and in some cases winning them. Not to mention achieving career high rankings in their old age, I mean Prime.

 

[blackcat]

that Swedish guy got one of those hidden bans did not he?

 

[zebedee]

Cynicism within the pro game:-

"The Argentineans practice on the court for two hours a day, then they must
practice in front of a mirror for two more hours saying 'I'm not guilty.'"

Vince Spadea on the Argentines on the men's tour and drug testing.-

 

[robow7]

Vince Spadea ain't afraid of ya

 

[Ticker]

that Swedish guy got one of those hidden bans did not he?

If you mean Soderling, then yes I think he did.

 

[SundayRider]

djokavic murray and fed are a level above. fed and djokovic or djokavic have him pipped tho, but Djokavic is a defender unpeered. he can cover soooo much court, he may as well play doubles as a singles player against the Bryan brothers. he just cant match them in their chest bumps

Nadal at his peak was probably more outrageous than Djoko IMO.

 

[SeriousSam]

I think its very close, but yes, those two are the joint best movers in the history of the sport. Nadal, btw, is no less skilled than Murray or Djokovic. I think only Fed has clearly more natural ability than the rest. Dokovic, Murray and Nadal have terrific technique, but a huge part of their dominance is based on their infinite stamina and movement around the court.

Of course, I'm not saying Fed hasn't been on heavy duty PEDs for years.

 

[blackcat]

I think its very close, but yes, those two are the joint best movers in the history of the sport. Nadal, btw, is no less skilled than Murray or Djokovic. I think only Fed has clearly more natural ability than the rest. Dokovic, Murray and Nadal have terrific technique, but a huge part of their dominance is based on their infinite stamina and movement around the court.

Of course, I'm not saying Fed hasn't been on heavy duty PEDs for years.

i think Fed is not on major gear. maybe just a little epo, and in training using roids and testo. maybe more cortisone (corticosteroids) than the other strenght roid androgrens, the traditional hypertrophy ones...

I dont think he does much more than recovery doping, he did not create new power out of then air, well, p'raps he did in the year before he beat Philippoussis at his first Wimbledon at 21 or 22, or however old he was when he won his first and went on the streak. I think he was actually 21 or 20.

 

[SundayRider]

i think Fed is not on major gear. maybe just a little epo, and in training using roids and testo. maybe more cortisone (corticosteroids) than the other strenght roid androgrens, the traditional hypertrophy ones...

I dont think he does much more than recovery doping, he did not create new power out of then air, well, p'raps he did in the year before he beat Philippoussis at his first Wimbledon at 21 or 22, or however old he was when he won his first and went on the streak. I think he was actually 21 or 20.

Which is very young going by todays standards.

 

[zebedee]

If, as some claim, Nadal did turn out to have been a Fuentes client, he must have started doping at a remarkably young age. In May 2006 when the Puerto scandal first broke he was only seventeen.

Would you be into blood doping at that age?

 

[sniper]

If, as some claim, Nadal did turn out to have been a Fuentes client, he must have started doping at a remarkably young age. In May 2006 when the Puerto scandal first broke he was only seventeen.

Would you be into blood doping at that age?

Ow yes you would, if you take advice from the 'right' people.

Was it you or andynonymous or someone else who said Nadal had taken a year off right around that age to bulk up muscle-wise before becoming a pro.
Why not also bank some blood while you're at it.
It turned the guy into a billionaire and many in his entourage into millionaires.

Solid investment.

 

[zebedee]

I'm not so sure about the blood doping but the steroids are something else. The disappearing act prior to returning transformed, is a common trick of tennis dopers, Agassi being the first I noticed who did this. Nadal went from skinny to supercharged.

 

[Andynonomous]

"And Rafa ... he was always strong. At 16, his body just exploded. But he has been very little in the gym. Just some resistance work with rubber bands for injury prevention."

Nadal doesn't run the hills of Mallorca. There isn't a workout center where you'll find him between tournaments. Toni, who has nurtured his nephew's tennis for 13 years, says the best place to train is on court.

So Nadal developed the best stamina, acceleration, and upper body strength ever for a tennis player before he was on the professional tour (and subjected to any drug testing), without doing any strength training, or aerobic training.

Toni also says "Rafa was always strong". BS.

At 12-14 Nadal had extremely narrow and bony shoulders, and he still has a flat chest to this day.

Nadal was clearly NOT born an exomorph. If his game heavily depends on speed, strength, and stamina, and if those attributes were attained artificially, then Nadal would be a bigger fraud than Armstrong.

 

[wansteadimp]

It has to be remembered that Nadal's other Uncle, Miguel-Angel (aka The Beast), was a world class footballer with Barca and the Spanish national team. He no doubt had a clue who were the people to speak to about blood & other doping in Spain.

 

[SeriousSam]

Ow yes you would, if you take advice from the 'right' people.

Was it you or andynonymous or someone else who said Nadal had taken a year off right around that age to bulk up muscle-wise before becoming a pro.
Why not also bank some blood while you're at it.
It turned the guy into a billionaire and many in his entourage into millionaires.

Solid investment.

Whoa. He's not a billionaire. The only sports start that managed that is Tiger Woods, who has obviously never doped in his life.

Re: ectomorph/mesomorph etc, that bs has been debunked. At any rate, I don't see a case for Nadal being some sort of outlier doper within tennis. Towards the top end for sure, with his fellow top players.

 

[blackcat]

Whoa. He's not a billionaire. The only sports start that managed that is Tiger Woods, who has obviously never doped in his life.

sarcasm right? Andthony Gallea? doctor anthony gallea from toronto or quebec. google him.

and ectomorph, mesomorph, endomorph these are just labels to indicate whether an individual has a skinny body or larger body or carries fat or muscle. It matters not what science says these signififiers are flawed, they met a threshold in colloquial idiom so they became adjectives describing a body

compare Woods as an 18yo skinny runt like Nadal, to him now. Compare him to skinny Geoff Ogilvy

 

[Andynonomous]

It has to be remembered that Nadal's other Uncle, Miguel-Angel (aka The Beast), was a world class footballer with Barca and the Spanish national team. He no doubt had a clue who were the people to speak to about blood & other doping in Spain.

I am sure that Uncle Toni had some discussions with his brother Miguel-Angel.

Note that Miguel-Angel was well known to be "a big ole unit, with a big ole head". I wouldn't be surprised that he used HGH in his teens.

Compare Rafa, and his uncle Miguel-Angel, to Rafa's father, and uncle Toni.

 

[blackcat]

I am sure that Uncle Toni had some discussions with his brother Miguel-Angel.

Note that Miguel-Angel was well known to be "a big ole unit, with a big ole head". I wouldn't be surprised that he used HGH in his teens.

Compare Rafa, and his uncle Miguel-Angel, to Rafa's father, and uncle Toni.

tous dope. tous

 

[peloton]

If, as some claim, Nadal did turn out to have been a Fuentes client, he must have started doping at a remarkably young age. In May 2006 when the Puerto scandal first broke he was only seventeen.

Would you be into blood doping at that age?

He was a client of some doctor, no doubt, but the 'big' tennis player in the OP files has been rumored to be Ferrer, no stranger to dope docs