Tennis

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re: Re:

By giving you opponent an easy game you might be disadvantaging your opponents next opponent.

Creative reasoning, but it only makes sense to throw a match when your the favourite. So it is probably offset by the fact that you would have been a much tougher opponent for your opponents next opponent.

For a big one off win, then yes, a player losing when they are favorite is a good way for lots of money to be made from betting against the favorite. However if a very good player does it too often then either it becomes obvious or the player begins not to be favorite for the kind of match-ups they were.

However with even contests it would be a lot easier to disguise and while the winnings may not be as much it could be done more regularly.

So if it was to happen during even contests and if it occurs, as I think is suspected, by players faking an injury early in a match, then the next opponent could very well be disadvantaged.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Djokovic threw 2013 Wimbledon to Murray and has done it a few times. Wawrinka is also a big 'thrower'.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

If tennis suddenly went clean he'd probably the one with the most to gain IMO. Not saying Feder is clean by any means, just not doing anything as crazy as the other top players. However, I may be totally incorrect and he's as much a chemical creation as anyone, but his otherworldly skill makes me think otherwise.

fundamentally disagree.

I think doping in tennis, of which Federer has done his share since and before beating Philippousis in Wimbledon a decade ago... I think doping removes the Russian roulette element from the tournament, and there are zero upsets (rhetoric and hyperbole) compared to the 1980s and 1990s. you still had Edberg and Willander's consistency... but not like compared to today.

I also reckon Lendl was the first to make doping a cornerstone of a number one player, then Sampras used, but the redhead Jim Courier and the Austrian Thomas Muster ramped it up again. Even Pat Rafter did, no one call tell me that from the late 1990s, that you can possibly be "the fittest player on the circuit", plus the number one ranked player in the game, without doping. #NOTnormal

 

[arcus]

Reading the whole buzzfeed match-fixing article, not looking good for the ITF. Once again, an international federation not manifestly and transparently going after wrong-doers.
https://t.co/Ibt3W6jsBx

No wonder their pressor about it was so defensive, short and awkward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFYozz8Q7gU

The guy who runs the Tennis Integrity Unit (on Kermode's left) looked so uncomfortable, he reminded me of Hincapie in the infamous Kimmage:Armstrong pressor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI

 

[frenchfry]

Looks like we won't have the pleasure of watching Nadal sneer and scratch (his private parts) his way to another grand slam victory.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Which is worse? Cheating to lose or cheating to win?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Which is worse? Cheating to lose or cheating to win?

neither, but they arent that bad. dont get hung up on sport and dont invest it with any locus of identity,
... that is too valuable for you to shill it to frippery

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

Which is worse? Cheating to lose or cheating to win?

One of them is certainly more pathetic.

 

[arcus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06wd7f0#play

Basically, a summary of the BBC/Buzzfeed article, but it contains some gems from Chris Kermode, ATP CEO.

"I think it's [the tennis integrity unit] doing a very effective job"
"It is imperative that the product is real. Tennis is in the best place it's ever been, because it is real"
"We've got to be vigilant, and we cannot be complacent"
"There is NO reason why the sport wants to cover anything up, because that is JUST not in our interest"

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

The CBS and BBC reports don't seem to quite in line with each other, unless I'm missing something there.

Tennis has, apparently (and inexplicably) spent $14,000,000.00 "to address this corruption."

WTF? Yeah, that was money well spent. Shouldn't someone be investigating that?

 

[Anaconda]

'nother interesting stat:

Pro tennis has 100,000+ matches annually across 1000+ tournaments scattered across 200+ countries with $billions wagered

Secured by 2 staff

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/689561797368639488

 

[Zebadeedee]

The ATP boast of $14,000,000 invested to address tennis corruption amounts to yet another phony claim.

The only thing 'Tennis' has done is to protect its own lucrative scores product which flogs data to bookmakers and betting exchanges. They dislike the courtsiders who work for high speed gambling syndicates where it's all in the timing. The investment they boast of is to spot, throw out and ban those who are operating, perfectly legally, courtside. It's got nothing whatever to do with tackling match fixing corruption. High speed betting syndicates do not fix matches although the tennis authorities would have you think it's all dodgy.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/inside-the-shadowy-world-of-high-speed-tennis-betting/#fn-2

The nub of the matter is that the TIU is yet another fig leaf operation designed to fool a gullible tennis public by banning a few no-names while the illustrious pick up $50,000 a throw. The BBC/Buzzfeed scoop spells it out:-

http://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/the-tennis-racket#.kgRkK5k39

And here's a taste of the raw evidence (taken from the tennis doping website) that 'Tennis' would rather you didn't know about.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2685408-Betting-and-Telecoms.html#document/p26/a271720

https://github.com/BuzzFeedNews/2016-01-tennis-betting-analysis

 

[robow7]

Throwing a match in tennis is nothing new, and these incidents are somewhat small potatoes compared to Billy Jean King vs. Bobby Riggs in the 70's. A lot of money changed hands on that one.

 

[rote_laterne]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

Daniel Köllerer.

 

[blackcat]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

Daniel Köllerer.

the swedish baseliner... but that coulda been doping.. . Soderling

Dayydenko is the one they always talked about with the most egregious fixes...

remember Uvgeni Kafelnikov, he got to number one I think, I think he may have only got to semi-finals in slams, but supposedly he played the most games of any player every year for about 6 years... which is partly understandable... because it would need to be a top 15 player who keeps on getting thru to the last rounds of any tourney they enter, plus, it may be the reason why they never win a Slam because they play too many games and struggle in the 4th round and quarters because they are not as fresh as guys like Pistol Pete. Or Nadal.

see the youtube of Nadal playing the french human backhand Richard Gasquet, Gasquet just demonstrates how much more native talent he had before Nadal became an adult doper at 15 and 16.

 

[BullsFan22]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

Daniel Köllerer.

the swedish baseliner... but that coulda been doping.. . Soderling

Dayydenko is the one they always talked about with the most egregious fixes...

remember Uvgeni Kafelnikov, he got to number one I think, I think he may have only got to semi-finals in slams, but supposedly he played the most games of any player every year for about 6 years... which is partly understandable... because it would need to be a top 15 player who keeps on getting thru to the last rounds of any tourney they enter, plus, it may be the reason why they never win a Slam because they play too many games and struggle in the 4th round and quarters because they are not as fresh as guys like Pistol Pete. Or Nadal.

see the youtube of Nadal playing the french human backhand Richard Gasquet, Gasquet just demonstrates how much more native talent he had before Nadal became an adult doper at 15 and 16.

Kafelnikov won 2 slams and got to the final of another. Won 26 out 46 individual finals he played, an Olympic gold in 2000, a Davis Cup with the Russians in 2002 and, unbelievably 5 masters series finals with no title!!
So, hardly a guy that only played a bunch of tournaments. I don't doubt that him playing so often prevented him from picking up, potentially, a couple more slams, just like it eventually derailed Davydenko's career, but he's won enough titles, big titles, to perhaps think otherwise. He did end up in a steep decline after the Davis Cup title, and well before he was 30.

Soderling, not really sure what to think of him, apart from surging from the 20's and 30's rankings all the way to the top 5 and grand slam finals and semis.

Nadal, just about everything's been said about him and doping. We simply run out of words.

 

[blackcat]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

Daniel Köllerer.

the swedish baseliner... but that coulda been doping.. . Soderling

Dayydenko is the one they always talked about with the most egregious fixes...

remember Uvgeni Kafelnikov, he got to number one I think, I think he may have only got to semi-finals in slams, but supposedly he played the most games of any player every year for about 6 years... which is partly understandable... because it would need to be a top 15 player who keeps on getting thru to the last rounds of any tourney they enter, plus, it may be the reason why they never win a Slam because they play too many games and struggle in the 4th round and quarters because they are not as fresh as guys like Pistol Pete. Or Nadal.

see the youtube of Nadal playing the french human backhand Richard Gasquet, Gasquet just demonstrates how much more native talent he had before Nadal became an adult doper at 15 and 16.

Kafelnikov won 2 slams and got to the final of another. Won 26 out 46 individual finals he played, an Olympic gold in 2000, a Davis Cup with the Russians in 2002 and, unbelievably 5 masters series finals with no title!!
So, hardly a guy that only played a bunch of tournaments. I don't doubt that him playing so often prevented him from picking up, potentially, a couple more slams, just like it eventually derailed Davydenko's career, but he's won enough titles, big titles, to perhaps think otherwise. He did end up in a steep decline after the Davis Cup title, and well before he was 30.

sry about my errors...

p'raps if he was from the West, and had a big money shoe or racquet deal, cos lets face it, he is not 6'1" statuesque sharapova who can get the 50 million euro per annum endorsmenets with watches/shoes/airlines/racquets ...

also, I think Nike paid Sampras and Agassi about half a mill to enter each Slam.

now, (my info may be incorrect), but, the logic would be @r$e backwards, because their contracts with Nike(etc) would be fungible... and they get the big money deals with Seiko/Rolex for winning the Slams... so they already have the incentive to win the slams, if we are distilling the incentive being only $$$

 

[BullsFan22]

Here are just some of the bewildering stats as they've been presented:

8 players currently participating in the Australian Open are suspected to have fixed matches in the past.

More than 70 player suspected of throwing matches.

The vast majority of those have not, and will not, be disciplined due to the fact that their actions took place prior to the 2009 anti-corruption rule.

CBS News reported that since 2010 the ATP has disciplined 18 people, including lifetime bans for 5 of them.

The BBC reports that the TUI investigations over the past two years have resulted in seven players and one official being banned for between six months and a lifetime.

The European Sports Security Association, which monitors betting for leading bookmakers, flagged up more than 50 suspicious matches to the TIU in 2015.

So how hard could it be to determine who was given a lifetime ban?

Daniel Köllerer.

the swedish baseliner... but that coulda been doping.. . Soderling

Dayydenko is the one they always talked about with the most egregious fixes...

remember Uvgeni Kafelnikov, he got to number one I think, I think he may have only got to semi-finals in slams, but supposedly he played the most games of any player every year for about 6 years... which is partly understandable... because it would need to be a top 15 player who keeps on getting thru to the last rounds of any tourney they enter, plus, it may be the reason why they never win a Slam because they play too many games and struggle in the 4th round and quarters because they are not as fresh as guys like Pistol Pete. Or Nadal.

see the youtube of Nadal playing the french human backhand Richard Gasquet, Gasquet just demonstrates how much more native talent he had before Nadal became an adult doper at 15 and 16.

Kafelnikov won 2 slams and got to the final of another. Won 26 out 46 individual finals he played, an Olympic gold in 2000, a Davis Cup with the Russians in 2002 and, unbelievably 5 masters series finals with no title!!
So, hardly a guy that only played a bunch of tournaments. I don't doubt that him playing so often prevented him from picking up, potentially, a couple more slams, just like it eventually derailed Davydenko's career, but he's won enough titles, big titles, to perhaps think otherwise. He did end up in a steep decline after the Davis Cup title, and well before he was 30.

sry about my errors...

p'raps if he was from the West, and had a big money shoe or racquet deal, cos lets face it, he is not 6'1" statuesque sharapova who can get the 50 million euro per annum endorsmenets with watches/shoes/airlines/racquets ...

also, I think Nike paid Sampras and Agassi about half a mill to enter each Slam.

now, (my info may be incorrect), but, the logic would be @r$e backwards, because their contracts with Nike(etc) would be fungible... and they get the big money deals with Seiko/Rolex for winning the Slams... so they already have the incentive to win the slams, if we are distilling the incentive being only $$$

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, by I am not really informed on sponsorship/money deals, for and from ads, appearance fees, etc. I am sure Agassi and Sampras were raking in millions back in the 90's and early 2000's, when they were at the top echelon. I know they made quite a few commercials and obviously being on tv so many times, it doesn't hurt.

 

[blackcat]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, by I am not really informed on sponsorship/money deals, for and from ads, appearance fees, etc. I am sure Agassi and Sampras were raking in millions back in the 90's and early 2000's, when they were at the top echelon. I know they made quite a few commercials and obviously being on tv so many times, it doesn't hurt.

I was a whippersnapper back when they were playing, but I thought that half a mill just to turn up to a Slam was an awful lot of money. But Jordan was prolly getting 10 mill from Nike and Sampras and Agassi prolly 5 million gross, just when they broke down the bonus/incentive structure, 500k came from turning up to the individual Slam, and if they won Flushing Meadow, Nike may fill the coffer of 5mill another 2 mill higher, and maybe half that amount for Wimbledon. Like I said, how the sponsorship contracts were broken down is irrelevant, cos the total is fungible, you create a greater demand and market power, they reward you in compensation. Its just an awful lotta money for hitting a ball in the 90s. From your shoe sponsor. and they would need to sell a truckload of shoes from asia ceteris paribus on the back of that endorsement.

 

[arcus]

I suspect top players would never be incentivized to start fixing matches for money. The risk:reward ratio would just never be favourable.
The only circumstance where this activity might creep into the highest levels, is if an athlete had become embroiled with a crime syndicate early in their career, and found themselves unable to extricate themselves from the relationship, or if they or their families were threatened with violence to force them to capitulate. This might not be as far fetched as it seems. I seem to remember a Russian player suggesting this was the case, but can't find the details. Regardless, McEnroe talked about, which makes me think it's occurred.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/tennis/mafia-matchfix-threat-worries-mcenroe/2007/12/08/1196813085183.html
Otherwise, I suspect fixing is restricted to lower ranked players, where the temptation must be intoxicating.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I suspect top players would never be incentivized to start fixing matches for money. The risk:reward ratio would just never be favourable.
The only circumstance where this activity might creep into the highest levels, is if an athlete had become embroiled with a crime syndicate early in their career, and found themselves unable to extricate themselves from the relationship, or if they or their families were threatened with violence to force them to capitulate. This might not be as far fetched as it seems. I seem to remember a Russian player suggesting this was the case, but can't find the details. Regardless, McEnroe talked about, which makes me think it's occurred.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/tennis/mafia-matchfix-threat-worries-mcenroe/2007/12/08/1196813085183.html
Otherwise, I suspect fixing is restricted to lower ranked players, where the temptation must be intoxicating.

I seem to remember a Russian player suggesting this was the case, but can't find the details. Regardless, McEnroe talked about, which makes me think it's occurred.

yes, this was the speculation on Nicolai Davydenko

 

[Anaconda]

Good read. Tennis, some football content.

http://backpagefootball.com/match-fixing-convenient-truth/103818/?utm_content=buffera43f4

But it was the paragraph at the end of the article caught my eye.

"This week’s scandal in tennis will soon disappear, covered up and buried – much like the evidence of doping, pedophilia and child abuse in the sport. These are inconvenient truths that scare sponsors and “partners”. Just as athletics continues to rot, and cycling pretends to be clean, football will put on a show to play is fair, like tennis.

Once again the punishment for reporting is more severe and damaging than keeping silent – like whistle-blowing in any other business – people will do nothing. Match fixing is in the fabric of sport and will not be bleached out."

 

[sniper]

Re:

Good read. Tennis, some football content.

http://backpagefootball.com/match-fixing-convenient-truth/103818/?utm_content=buffera43f4

But it was the paragraph at the end of the article caught my eye.

"This week’s scandal in tennis will soon disappear, covered up and buried – much like the evidence of doping, pedophilia and child abuse in the sport. These are inconvenient truths that scare sponsors and “partners”. Just as athletics continues to rot, and cycling pretends to be clean, football will put on a show to play is fair, like tennis.

Once again the punishment for reporting is more severe and damaging than keeping silent – like whistle-blowing in any other business – people will do nothing. Match fixing is in the fabric of sport and will not be bleached out."

nice, like it.
Alan Moore is an interesting Russia-based journo with an interesting background in sports and willingness to call a duck a duck.
http://backpagefootball.com/author/alanmoore/page/2/

This is also from Moore, talking about his own experience with doping in Bundesliga soccer club RB Leipzig:
http://backpagefootball.com/hippo-room-footballs-dark-past-present-load-red-bull/97672/

Hippo in the room – football’s dark past and present and a load of Red Bull
...
On day four we were all to begin our programs, it was injection time. I stopped dead in my tracks and asked what we were being given. “Vitamins, minerals and what you’ll lose in training.” I refused to take anything until I knew what it was exactly. The team manager roared, the balding man smiled like a friendly uncle and, I think, told them to leave me go.

It's a great piece, recommended reading.

The balding man he talks about is none other than Bernd Pansold, a famous former East German doping doc who still runs a dodgy medical clinic in Vienna.
From wiki:

It is noteworthy that several notable athletes attend the Diagnostic- and training center to different degrees, to be treated or advised, such as German sports stars Maria Riesch and Sebastian Vettel, who however dispute and deny having ever had any contact with Pansold who is the leader of the operation. A possible collaboration between American Alpine skier Lindsey Vonn and Pansold is also a reoccurring theme in media of the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernd_Pansold#Activity_in_Austria

More interesting stuff from the Moore article:

Pansold oversees the training regimes for the Red Bull family, from the New York Red Bulls to Red Bull Salzburg to Red Bull Brasil to RB Leipzig and Red Bull Ghana in football, and their motorsport and ice hockey groups. The growth into football was overseen by two notables, former runner and PR man Olli Mintzlaff and former Liverpool boss, Gerard Houllier. Has there been a reaction to this or comment in our media? Not a chance.

How can we continue to ignore the Hippo in the room? Easy, it’s not our problem and it’s never our guys doing it. Not in our sport, our club, our country. Never those we work with and never those we admire. We just don’t need to know.

are there any tennis players sponsored by Red Bull?

 

[Zebadeedee]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Global/Issues/2013/01/15/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Azarenka.aspx

 

[May0maniac]

Bernd Pansold is an interesting figure, the guy also worked with the Herminator Hermann Maier. Maria Riesch was on a weight loss programm (she lost about 7kg in a short amount of time), she also claimed that it was just her new gluten-free diet.
Alan Moore's articles are pretty good, he's also spot on when it comes to tennis.