The Armitstead doping thread.

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Its an altogether familiar reaction from the all knowing completely clueless public.

Perspective. This is not the general public. This is a Yorkshire cycling club. A proud Yorkshire cycling club of which LA is patron. The 'Yorkshire grit' comment itself came from the club captain, not the "all knowing completely clueless public".

As for that comment calling the general public "all knowing completely clueless"...

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Its an altogether familiar reaction from the all knowing completely clueless public.

Perspective. This is not the general public. This is a Yorkshire cycling club. A proud Yorkshire cycling club of which LA is patron. The 'Yorkshire grit' comment itself came from the club captain, not the "all knowing completely clueless public".

still, it's an altogether familiar reaction. And it's coming from people who had the unique chance to learn from the Lance saga. Seems they learned f-all.

As for that comment calling the general public "all knowing completely clueless"...

he didn't say general public, you did.

If he refers to a subset of the general public, the "I believe" and "Show me the proof" kind of cycling fans, the Mark Burnley kind of guys, then I find "all knowing completely clueless" quite an apt description.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Coming up on the Clinic: Adam Peaty's gran - an all-knowing completely clueless cheerleader who should have told the BBC (or the Biased Broadcasting Corporation as it should be called) that of course all swimmers dope, that's the only way you explain them going so fast.

 

[fmk_RoI]

JV's expanded upon his LA comments. Mean and grumpy are the latest adjectives. So she wouldn't share her lemon sherbets with him and threw a moody when he tried to pinch one?

 

[thehog]

Re:

JV's expanded upon his LA comments. Mean and grumpy are the latest adjectives. So she wouldn't share her lemon sherbets with him and threw a moody when he tried to pinch one?

At this early hour, sounds like you're replying to your own narrative. I hope you get the answer you"re looking for

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

Its an altogether familiar reaction from the all knowing completely clueless public.

Perspective. This is not the general public. This is a Yorkshire cycling club. A proud Yorkshire cycling club of which LA is patron. The 'Yorkshire grit' comment itself came from the club captain, not the "all knowing completely clueless public".

As for that comment calling the general public "all knowing completely clueless"...

You disagree with the sentiment ? Pub experts across countries are in your favour and would no doubt applaud you sticking up for the people
I have an opinion on lots of things, doesn't make me an expert in fact I tend to put myself in the clueless category on lots of things I have an opinion on. That's why it just my opinion. Like that Yorkshire grit means you don't have to take drugs...cause obviously it beats any concoction that medical professionals and scientists could dream up. Like being Irish was enough that Kimmage got berated or anyone who doubted Smith was an idiot at the time...of course now everyone knew she was guilty ! I don't think its an unfair statement to make, in fact I'll go as far as to say every politician would agree(obviously in private )
Just for clarity, when does being a member of a Yorkshire cycling club mean you aren't a member of the public ?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Its an altogether familiar reaction from the all knowing completely clueless public.

Perspective. This is not the general public. This is a Yorkshire cycling club. A proud Yorkshire cycling club of which LA is patron. The 'Yorkshire grit' comment itself came from the club captain, not the "all knowing completely clueless public".

As for that comment calling the general public "all knowing completely clueless"...

You disagree with the sentiment ? Pub experts across countries are in your favour and would no doubt applaud you sticking up for the people
I have an opinion on lots of things, doesn't make me an expert in fact I tend to put myself in the clueless category on lots of things I have an opinion on. That's why it just my opinion. Like that Yorkshire grit means you don't have to take drugs...cause obviously it beats any concoction that medical professionals and scientists could dream up. Like being Irish was enough that Kimmage got berated or anyone who doubted Smith was an idiot at the time...of course now everyone knew she was guilty ! I don't think its an unfair statement to make, in fact I'll go as far as to say every politician would agree(obviously in private )
Just for clarity, when does being a member of a Yorkshire cycling club mean you aren't a member of the public ?

Are tha tryin to say Yorkshire grit counts for nowt? What about Beryl Burton?

 

[sniper]

Re:

...trust me lizzie is a grade a b!tch........ain't no lizzie in team

arrogant...focused...successful............................unlikely to forget about tests

Mark L

agreed.

2015:

You might think that fitting all this around everyday life might be complicated but this is everyday life for Lizzie Armitstead now.
...
Armitstead’s focus on winning the world title involved detailed planning over a period of months and a perfect imposition of tactics and physical presence on the race itself. That focus and planning went all the way up to the end of the race in Richmond, Virginia, but it didn’t extend to the other side of the finishing line.
...
Armitstead did plan her assault on the Worlds in every bit as much detail as BC applied to Mark Cavendish winning the men’s race in Copenhagen four years ago
...
"I’m a perfectionist and a control freak. "

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/lizzie-armitstead-the-busy-life-of-a-new-world-champion/

March 2016:

Armitstead will fly to Rio as late as possible before the race, but in the spirit of marginal gains, she will get an upgrade to her air fare.
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/sport/sportother/sport_other_outdoor/cycling/14537389.Armitstead__Rilympic_road_race_course_harder_than_it_looks/

Brailsford believed in a concept that he referred to as the “aggregation of marginal gains.” He explained it as “the 1 percent margin for improvement in everything

except the whereabouts form.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Are tha tryin to say Yorkshire grit counts for nowt? What about Beryl Burton?

Didn't she pop a positive for liquorice?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Are tha tryin to say Yorkshire grit counts for nowt? What about Beryl Burton?

Didn't she pop a positive for liquorice?

Aye, like as not!

 

[elduggo]

Re:

JV's expanded upon his LA comments. Mean and grumpy are the latest adjectives. So she wouldn't share her lemon sherbets with him and threw a moody when he tried to pinch one?

'grumpy ones either', possibly referring to the tweeter.

Given said tweeter is a cohort of the McQuaids (in particular, the one who may/may not be Deignan's agent) I wouldn't be surprised if there's history there.

 

[mr61%]

Re: Re:

Its an altogether familiar reaction from the all knowing completely clueless public.

Perspective. This is not the general public. This is a Yorkshire cycling club. A proud Yorkshire cycling club of which LA is patron. The 'Yorkshire grit' comment itself came from the club captain, not the "all knowing completely clueless public".

As for that comment calling the general public "all knowing completely clueless"...

Members of a Yorkshire cycling club whose patron is Armitstead are hardly going to be impartial. They are going to be even more prejudiced than the 'clueless public'.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Members of a Yorkshire cycling club whose patron is Armitstead are hardly going to be impartial. They are going to be even more prejudiced than the 'clueless public'.

Precisely.

 

[carolina]

interesting opinion from cavendish:

"Did she dope? No, and I don't believe she did, you know," Cavendish said in an interview on Sky Sports News. "Was it an administrative error? Yes, it was, absolutely. Was it her fault? Yes, it was, absolutely.

“Probably the majority of sports people have a missed test because you’re a bit blasé until you miss your first test. But three? I think Lizzie herself could have prevented the chaos that she's in.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-armitstead-chaos-was-her-own-fault/

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Armitstead's plucky spirit while blatantly doping
makes me think of her as
the Danilo di Luca of Women's Cycling.

She's doing it
she is vaguely ashamed
but still wants to be loved.

 

[jens_attacks]

well she definitely has the killer look of danilo.

don't think danilo ever wanted to be loved though, he just wanted to win.

 

[DirtyWorks]

You guys are Internet famous. Good job.

Has a CAS decision been published yet? I checked here: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/jurisprudence/recent-decisions.html That's pretty current.

If I read the rules right, she can forbid publication of the decision. Why am I not surprised?

UKAD in all their "transparency" does not post CAS decisions.

 

[thehog]

Re:

You guys are Internet famous. Good job.

Has a CAS decision been published yet? I checked here: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/jurisprudence/recent-decisions.html That's pretty current.

If I read the rules right, she can forbid publication of the decision. Why am I not surprised?

UKAD in all their "transparency" does not post CAS decisions.

That being the case, she is likely not to have it released. We may never know how she got herself around the first missed taste. If the story didn't leak we probably never would have heard anything about it.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

If I read the rules right, she can forbid publication of the decision. Why am I not surprised?

UKAD in all their "transparency" does not post CAS decisions.

WADA's rules. In place for quite some time now. Referred to multiple times up thread. Rather than getting het and bothered about LA, why not ask UKAD and BC and UCI and the rest of alphabet soup how many decisions have gone against them in the last year that haven't seen light of day? Why not ask why journalists - who are apparently as ignorant of the rules as others - aren't asking that question?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

That being the case, she is likely not to have it released. We may never know how she got herself around the first missed taste. If the story didn't leak we probably never would have heard anything about it.

CAS can anonymise it and release it that way, if they want.

 

[samhocking]

I don't think it's upto the athlete if documents get published or not. It's my understanding they have the choice if they want the decision to be made public, but UKAD won't be allowed to publish the documents. Not according CAS rules and laws they operate under anyway.

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

You guys are Internet famous. Good job.

Has a CAS decision been published yet? I checked here: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/jurisprudence/recent-decisions.html That's pretty current.

If I read the rules right, she can forbid publication of the decision. Why am I not surprised?

UKAD in all their "transparency" does not post CAS decisions.

That being the case, she is likely not to have it released. We may never know how she got herself around the first missed taste. If the story didn't leak we probably never would have heard anything about it.

Being transparent before the decision would be a human rights violation because it could prejudice the outcome, but I'd agree the transparency of the reasoned decision shouldn't be a CAS one. This is the problem with CAS, WADA and all anti-doping parties in that they work on Private Law, but kind of act using Psuedo-Criminal Law. Either way, the whole basis of a right to a fair trial is pretty messed-up how it works at the moment.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

You guys are Internet famous. Good job.

Has a CAS decision been published yet? I checked here: http://www.tas-cas.org/en/jurisprudence/recent-decisions.html That's pretty current.

If I read the rules right, she can forbid publication of the decision. Why am I not surprised?

UKAD in all their "transparency" does not post CAS decisions.

That being the case, she is likely not to have it released. We may never know how she got herself around the first missed taste. If the story didn't leak we probably never would have heard anything about it.

Being transparent before the decision would be a human rights violation because it could prejudice the outcome, but I'd agree the transparency of the reasoned decision shouldn't be a CAS one. This is the problem with CAS, WADA and all anti-doping parties in that they work on Private Law, but kind of act using Psuedo-Criminal Law. Either way, the whole basis of a right to a fair trial is pretty messed-up how it works at the moment.

Huh?

CAS is arbitration, its goal to come to fair agreement between the parties. It does not follow the rules of the court or "the right to fair trial" and most of the time it does not really arbitrate. Its heavily one sided at times due to the presiding arbitrators being closely linked with WADA and the IOC.

A few have gone the courts outside of CAS, generally at that point CAS (or the Federation) withdraws (as we saw in the Kreuziger case).

 

[samhocking]

Exactly, that's what's so messed up with how it works at the moment. The voluntariness of the athlete is a presumption which isn't based on reality. The legal relationship should therefore be recognised as Criminal law and the due process protections afforded to athletes should reflect this instead of how it works currently which is essentially Private Contract Law where CAS, WADA & UKAD (all anti-doping agencys for that matter) don't actually review the rules which they are enforcing. Edit: and so are essentially all an anti-doping monopoly on athletes livelihoods.

 

[noddy69]

Re: Re:

Members of a Yorkshire cycling club whose patron is Armitstead are hardly going to be impartial. They are going to be even more prejudiced than the 'clueless public'.

Precisely.

Prejudiced ? I don't think so. Defensive maybe. My point was we have seen this type of response before. Whether you think it was clueless and based on nothing more than her being from Yorkshire or from a group who know exactly what she is at really makes no difference. The fact is it will become public opinion if the British press keep spouting it and the clamour will die down, the all knowing clueless public will clear our heroine of any wrong doing in the court of public opinion and thats that....unless of course she actually gets caught, but unlikely.