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The Armitstead doping thread.

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People should understand how drug tests work before they condemn athletes

As an athlete who has been involved in doping procedures for years – and who came close to missing tests – I feel compelled to defend cyclist Lizzie Armitstead

By James Willstrop for Willstrop’s World, part of the Guardian Sport Network

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/willstrop-s-world/2016/aug/18/rio-2016-olympics-cycling-drugs-lizzie-armitstead

...As a professional athlete who has been involved in doping procedures for many years and has been tested untold times, I have to say, without knowing Lizzie, I feel compelled to defend her. If nothing else, she deserves to have someone show another side to it all. My own hunch is that she is not a doping cheat and that she made a mistake. Something that has not often been noted in reflections of commentators over the past weeks, is that in 2016 alone Armitstead faced 16 tests and all of them were clean...

Nice. I want this guy in my corner lol...
 
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GreasyChain said:
Benotti69 said:
Armstrong's abuse of the whereabouts system never affected him. He never got banned for it. Armistead wants something similar it would appear.

When did Amistead abuse the whereabouts system? You and the rest of the tinfoil wearing cretins on here have invented an entire scenario where the woman was sitting in a bath connected to an IV while the drug tester was trying to batter the door down. Whereas in reality they turned up at the hotel and were turned away form the desk without even trying to contact LA.

That's why the CAS overturned UKAD's pathetic decision to sanction an innocent athlete. But you just can't have that because in your insane reality everybody is a cheat.

After the online wars during the Independence referendum I've become very tired of scum like you and your constant refusal to acknowledge ever being wrong or when your claims are proved to be untrue. You just react with sneers and run away. Before returning with exactly the same bollocks to start the cycle again.

You're like the mental yoons like historywoman or tom gallagher who seen Nats under the bed where you see dopers. Maybe you should all get together. I suggest Carstairs is a suitable venue.

Why do you tell so many lies?

Easy, tiger. You may want to get a less intense prescription from your anti-aging doc before posting on the internet.

LA abused the whereabouts system when she missed her tests. Do you really think one of GB's star athletes was going to miss the Olympics? It's really that simple.

Carry on.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Benotti69 said:
No excuse for Lizzie Armitstead’s missed drugs tests, says Bradley Wiggins

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse

he also has this brillant joke

......the 36-year-old believes blood doping is now “nigh on impossible”, adding that “I don’t think anyone could get away with it”.

says me to Wiggins is blood doping for chosen races.

Obviously Wiggo never watched the BBC documentary where the chap upped his VO2 max by 7% and passed the passport tests!

Edit: maybe he did!
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
No excuse for Lizzie Armitstead’s missed drugs tests, says Bradley Wiggins

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/09/bradley-wiggins-lizzie-armitstead-no-excuse

he also has this brillant joke

......the 36-year-old believes blood doping is now “nigh on impossible”, adding that “I don’t think anyone could get away with it”.

says me to Wiggins is blood doping for chosen races.
Reminds me of Hampsten ignoring he existence of blooddoping in an interviewn in the early 90s. even though half of his 7eleven teammates were there when things went 'wrong' in 1984, and having been coached by the likes of Testa and Eddie B.
Such a giveaway.
 
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sniper said:
Reminds me of Hampsten ignoring he existence of blooddoping in an interviewn in the early 90s. even though half of his 7eleven teammates were there when things went 'wrong' in 1984, and having been coached by the likes of Testa and Eddie B.
Such a giveaway.
Half his 7-Eleven team-mates in whatever early-90s year this was or half his 7-Eleven team-mates across all years up to whatever early-90s year this was? Could you produce the full list for me? I know it's going to be what, a dozen names if the former, probably a couple or three dozen if the later, but detail is always good to have. TIA
 
Oct 16, 2010
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fmk_RoI said:
sniper said:
Reminds me of Hampsten ignoring he existence of blooddoping in an interviewn in the early 90s. even though half of his 7eleven teammates were there when things went 'wrong' in 1984, and having been coached by the likes of Testa and Eddie B.
Such a giveaway.
Half his 7-Eleven team-mates in whatever early-90s year this was or half his 7-Eleven team-mates across all years up to whatever early-90s year this was? Could you produce the full list for me? I know it's going to be what, a dozen names if the former, probably a couple or three dozen if the later, but detail is always good to have. TIA
there simply was no blood doping in the 80s.
that's the whole story. ;)
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
fmk_RoI said:
sniper said:
Reminds me of Hampsten ignoring he existence of blooddoping in an interviewn in the early 90s. even though half of his 7eleven teammates were there when things went 'wrong' in 1984, and having been coached by the likes of Testa and Eddie B.
Such a giveaway.
Half his 7-Eleven team-mates in whatever early-90s year this was or half his 7-Eleven team-mates across all years up to whatever early-90s year this was? Could you produce the full list for me? I know it's going to be what, a dozen names if the former, probably a couple or three dozen if the later, but detail is always good to have. TIA
there simply was no blood doping in the 80s.
that's the whole story. ;)

yup probably the main beneficiary Steve Hegg...blood doping worked out well for him...what a career ;)
 
joe_papp said:
People should understand how drug tests work before they condemn athletes

As an athlete who has been involved in doping procedures for years – and who came close to missing tests – I feel compelled to defend cyclist Lizzie Armitstead

By James Willstrop for Willstrop’s World, part of the Guardian Sport Network

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/willstrop-s-world/2016/aug/18/rio-2016-olympics-cycling-drugs-lizzie-armitstead

...As a professional athlete who has been involved in doping procedures for many years and has been tested untold times, I have to say, without knowing Lizzie, I feel compelled to defend her. If nothing else, she deserves to have someone show another side to it all. My own hunch is that she is not a doping cheat and that she made a mistake. Something that has not often been noted in reflections of commentators over the past weeks, is that in 2016 alone Armitstead faced 16 tests and all of them were clean...

Nice. I want this guy in my corner lol...

She faced 16 tests... Target testing? Would be interesting to see her passport released. Perhaps she'd be kind enough. :rolleyes: :D
 
Cross-posting from another thread:
Libertine Seguros said:
Lizzie has said a fair bit in the last few months that isn't wholly complimentary about British Cycling and its management, but her words carry quite significant weight here. The reason being, Lizzie is one of BC's chosen ones. The one they tried to rewrite history around, the one they marginalized Cooke and Pooley for the benefit of. They pretended Nicole hadn't won Olympic or World championships gold in order to present Armitstead as a kind of pioneer after Richmond.

Varnish was on her way out of the team and that was how it all began. Houvenaghel was dropped by the team and so the inner circle and the fans can dismiss her claims as motivated by that. Likewise Pooley, and especially Nicole Cooke, who is admittedly a forthright and potentially abrasive personality but who got stepped over, stepped on and held back every step of her way by British Cycling. The number of accounts - plus the fact that BC's mistreatment of Cooke and Pooley (and to a lesser extent Houvenaghel) was hardly secret, just that it went even further than we thought - meant we got a clear picture of what was going on. But as long as it was people who could be spun as having an axe to grind, there would be ammunition to dismiss their misgivings. Even if, as Nicole did, they presented their case formally in front of a select panel, with specific time and date anecdotes and supporting documentary evidence.

But with Lizzie, that's not possible. She has had the most outwardly visible support from BC of anybody in the women's road team. They helped her fund her case to get off the ban for the missed tests, they threw out the team's self-penned book of tactics at the eleventh hour to focus on a new unrehearsed plan entirely based on Lizzie (and placed all the blame on Nicole when it didn't work), they focus each and every major national team road race around her (to the extent that, with the Rio road race known to be one of the most mountainous women's one day races in years, the very first thing that Sutton said about Emma Pooley - arguably the greatest climber of her generation among women (mainly as she's more consistent and versatile than Abbott, however in the long one-off climbs Mara tended to get the better of her, however Mara always struggled with one-day races while Emma had much more race smarts and more than the one weapon) - returning from retirement was that it was good because "she'll add more strong legs to support Lizzie", because the idea of racing for anybody else didn't even cross his mind once).

What I'm getting at is not intended as another dig at Lizzie but to illustrate, she's a person of precisely the kind of position and status who, among the men's team, have been coming out saying things along the lines of "I never saw any such thing. They were always great to me". One of those who's benefited most from the culture at BC. She's protected the names of the people involved so it can't be considered axe-grinding, and as somebody who has been so prominent in the British Cycling revolution PR she can't be considered an outsider, embittered, or attention-seeking, and so her words cannot be dismissed as such, even by the most ardently defensive pro-British Cycling Betonköpfe.

And yet she's not going the same way as the likes of Thomas and Wiggins of defending the team. She's joining the chorus of critics, who are sharing stories of a pretty horrible culture for anybody to be in, let alone for a young woman. She may not have the litany of specific events and occurrences that Nicole had in her presentation to the select committee to show the mistreatment of the women's team, but the story she relates is thoroughly unpleasant - as a 19-year-old effective neo-pro at the time, it reeks of the worst combination of sports cultures - the incident may come across to some as relatively minor, but it still suggests both rookie-hazing and casual sexism, treating a young member of the women's team as a toy for their own amusement. The other question that it raises is, Armitstead was the only woman in the room with the whole men's team, and had been woken up to participate. So why was only one woman awoken, and why Lizzie? Had they tried to wake up others on this particular night, but Lizzie was the only one who didn't feel able to tell them to go away? Were they singling her out for this treatment? Or were similar things happening on other nights to other members of the women's team, being forced into outwardly-innocent yet uncomfortable control situations alone among numerous men who thought nothing of treating the young female riders as a plaything? None of the answers that can be given will be pleasant.
Oddly - ? - none of this is borne out by her actual autobiography. There is no sense of her being The Chosen One, there is no real sense of her knifing BC: she's punctiliously balanced, in fact. Mostly what she's trying to say (against, I will accept, the efforts of her ghost and the media) is that you have to be willing to be independent to succeed, you can't rely on others. And (again) the story of the 19-yr-old neo-pro taken from her bed and made to dance for the men (of the BC-run Halfords squad), that's actually the story of a 21-yr-old pro taken from her bed and made to dance for the men of JV's Garmin-Cervélo outfit.
 
MartinGT said:
I once parked next to her grand parents at a Nationals event. The year when Sharon Laws won.

We got chatting and they were very scathing about BC and Brailsford in particular calling him 'a rotten little man' which always stuck with me.
One of the few comments about Brailsford in the book concerns the demise of Garmin, when Brailsford offered to set up a nat road squad for her (similar, I presume, to the Halfords thing). She then got a gig with AA Drink and didn't need that, but that is a sign of how much he was willing to support her.
 
fmk_RoI said:
MartinGT said:
I once parked next to her grand parents at a Nationals event. The year when Sharon Laws won.

We got chatting and they were very scathing about BC and Brailsford in particular calling him 'a rotten little man' which always stuck with me.
One of the few comments about Brailsford in the book concerns the demise of Garmin, when Brailsford offered to set up a nat road squad for her (similar, I presume, to the Halfords thing). She then got a gig with AA Drink and didn't need that, but that is a sign of how much he was willing to support her.

Yes, one can only presume with what money Brailsford was proposing to use for his verbal offer. Judging on recent events one must take Brailsford with the same grain of salt as we did we Bruyneel.

You're a brave man taking any supposed supposition of Brailsford as fact. As always with Brailsford, what's in it for himself. As such let's toss this flimsy anecdote into the bin.
 
thehog said:
fmk_RoI said:
MartinGT said:
I once parked next to her grand parents at a Nationals event. The year when Sharon Laws won.

We got chatting and they were very scathing about BC and Brailsford in particular calling him 'a rotten little man' which always stuck with me.
One of the few comments about Brailsford in the book concerns the demise of Garmin, when Brailsford offered to set up a nat road squad for her (similar, I presume, to the Halfords thing). She then got a gig with AA Drink and didn't need that, but that is a sign of how much he was willing to support her.

Yes, one can only presume with what money Brailsford was proposing to use for his verbal offer. Judging on recent events one must take Brailsford with the same grain of salt as we did we Bruyneel.

You're a brave man taking any supposed supposition of Brailsford as fact. As always with Brailsford, what's in it for himself. As such let's toss this flimsy anecdote into the bin.
What value you place on the offer is wholly irrelevant. What matters is a) it was made; and b) it's about the only comment she makes about him.
 
fmk_RoI said:
thehog said:
fmk_RoI said:
MartinGT said:
I once parked next to her grand parents at a Nationals event. The year when Sharon Laws won.

We got chatting and they were very scathing about BC and Brailsford in particular calling him 'a rotten little man' which always stuck with me.
One of the few comments about Brailsford in the book concerns the demise of Garmin, when Brailsford offered to set up a nat road squad for her (similar, I presume, to the Halfords thing). She then got a gig with AA Drink and didn't need that, but that is a sign of how much he was willing to support her.

Yes, one can only presume with what money Brailsford was proposing to use for his verbal offer. Judging on recent events one must take Brailsford with the same grain of salt as we did we Bruyneel.

You're a brave man taking any supposed supposition of Brailsford as fact. As always with Brailsford, what's in it for himself. As such let's toss this flimsy anecdote into the bin.
What value you place on the offer is wholly irrelevant. What matters is a) it was made; and b) it's about the only comment she makes about him.

Again, you're making little to no sense and placing value on a proven liar in Brailsford. What ever point it is you're attempting to make lacks a large dose of credibility.

What would be much more interesting would be seeing the reason decision into the CAS verdict to reprieve Ms. Armistead of her three missed doping tests. Perhaps focus your attention on that.
 
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GuyIncognito said:
fmk_RoI said:
GuyIncognito said:
GuyIncognito said:
fmk_RoI said:
that's actually the story of a 21-yr-old pro taken from her bed and made to dance for the men of JV's Garmin-Cervélo outfit.

the what, now?

No, really, I want to hear more about this Fergal
*deleted by mods*

Explain the part I quoted.
Which part of it needs explaining to you? It seems pretty straightforward to me.
 
thehog said:
Again, you're making little to no sense and placing value on a proven liar in Brailsford. What ever point it is you're attempting to make lacks a large dose of credibility.

What would be much more interesting would be seeing the reason decision into the CAS verdict to reprieve Ms. Armistead of her three missed doping tests. Perhaps focus your attention on that.
Whatever you say Hoggy. Anecdotes that fail to serve your agenda are clearly irrelevant and should be totally dismissed.

As for the CAS decision: having read the book I know 1) why the decision is not public and 2) the basis of the decision. (The latter we all know anyway, it's been publicly reported, the former doesn't really bother me one way or another).
 
fmk_RoI said:
thehog said:
Again, you're making little to no sense and placing value on a proven liar in Brailsford. What ever point it is you're attempting to make lacks a large dose of credibility.

What would be much more interesting would be seeing the reason decision into the CAS verdict to reprieve Ms. Armistead of her three missed doping tests. Perhaps focus your attention on that.
Whatever you say Hoggy. Anecdotes that fail to serve your agenda are clearly irrelevant and should be totally dismissed.

As for the CAS decision: having read the book I know 1) why the decision is not public and 2) the basis of the decision. (The latter we all know anyway, it's been publicly reported, the former doesn't really bother me one way or another).

Excellent Watson! What say you contribute to the forum by sharing it with the rest of us? That shouldn't be too difficult.

We all look forward to seeing excepts from the book.
 
thehog said:
Excellent Watson! What say you contribute to the forum by sharing it with the rest of us? That shouldn't be too difficult.

We all look forward to seeing excepts from the book.
Hey, I've read the damned thing. I'm writing a review of the damned thing. If you think I'm going to waste more time typing up excerpts from the damned thing for you...
 
fmk_RoI said:
thehog said:
Excellent Watson! What say you contribute to the forum by sharing it with the rest of us? That shouldn't be too difficult.

We all look forward to seeing excepts from the book.
Hey, I've read the damned thing. I'm writing a review of the damned thing. If you think I'm going to waste more time typing up excerpts from the damned thing for you...


Then don't waste your time, no skin off our noses. As such don't come in here pontificating that you know more than everyone else, because that really is a waste of everyone's time including your own.