The Armitstead doping thread.

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Which part of 'professional athlete' didn't you understand?

In a world of mirrors it is the athletes reponsibility to reflect.

Professional means paid.

Paid means accountable.

Failure is unacceptable.

She just got lazy...

Glow on.

Professionals don't whine, they deny.

Whine on.

Guilty as charged.
 

lud

Jul 11, 2016
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Benotti69 said:
She deleted more than 1 tweet.

Why?

Armistead has not been transparent or honest. To date her actions mirror those who have been caught doping.

How many other tweets? What did they say?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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IndianCyclist said:
Why is she deleting tweets. Thought she said she didn't care about tests over family. So why is she worried over a couple of harmless tweets.
no time to update whereabouts form. But plenty of time to tweet about wedding bands and then delete those tweets.

This is turning into a no-brainer. Everything she did in between the third strike and the CAS decision suggests she knew this was going to be taken care of.
You don't go promoting your book if there's a chance that you're getting banned from the Games. And the way she raced in that period, too.
This was not an athlete with a potential ban hanging over her head.
This was an athlete who knew for sure she'd be cleared.
 
Aug 2, 2016
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In the absence of an official statement from CAS, we have little more to go on than the disingenuous spin from Team Armitstead.

Just taking the first missed test that was overturned by CAS, Armitstead's representatives say "CAS also ruled that there was no negligence on Armitstead's part and that she had followed procedures according to the guidelines", which is clearly nonsense as she patently failed to provide her room number contrary to UKAD and BC instructions, ie:
UKAD: "If you are staying in a hotel, you must ensure you have clearly specified your room number in the ‘Additional Information’ section on ADAMS and where possible that the hotel room is booked in your name so any Doping Control Officer can locate you easily."

The more one looks into this whole sorry saga, the more it stinks. Cover ups, collusion, contradictions, inconsistencies and downright lies at the very least, and possibly much worse. I think this is a potentially huge story that the media has only begun to scratch the surface of. We Brits may well have our very own LA scandal. And yes, I'm a Brit who thinks Brits dope just as much as athletes from any other country.
 
Apr 3, 2016
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sniper said:
IndianCyclist said:
Why is she deleting tweets. Thought she said she didn't care about tests over family. So why is she worried over a couple of harmless tweets.
no time to update whereabouts form. But plenty of time to tweet about wedding bands and then delete those tweets.

This is turning into a no-brainer. Everything she did in between the third strike and the CAS decision suggests she knew this was going to be taken care of.
You don't go promoting your book if there's a chance that you're getting banned from the Games. And the way she raced in that period, too.
This was not an athlete with a potential ban hanging over her head.
This was an athlete who knew for sure she'd be cleared.


Yeah....turns out she was right to think that. She obviously knew she was in the right.
 
Re: Re:

Vladivar said:
Benotti69 said:
Vladivar said:
Freddythefrog said:
Facts.
Booking a band and sorting out wedding arrangements at 17.09 on the day before you have a whereabouts failure.
The tweets are all wiped from your account and you go to CAS to appeal for this missed test to be struck out, justifying the failure as lack of time due to a family crisis.
.

At 17.10 on that day she could have heard about the family crises news and perhaps she thought "tweeting" about her wedding was insensitive and deleted.

Perhaps you have never had a family crisis and are therefore unaware how people may react.

She deleted more than 1 tweet.

Why?

Armistead has not been transparent or honest. To date her actions mirror those who have been caught doping.

Perhaps because her tweets about her wedding did not fit her families circumstances.

Her actions may mirror those who have been caught but she has not and she has reasonable excuses why as CAS agreed.

I do hope she wins Gold :)
Me too, because then there is no way that this whole disgraceful episode will be swept under the carpet. Her rivals will be furious, and the French media in particular will properly investigate the role of UKAD and British Cycling if Armitstead wins.

If she has any sense she would be better to keep here head down and finish outside the medals. But, based on her behaviour so far and (apparently justifed) belief that she is above the rules - she'll probably go for the win. Just don't fly too close to the sun Lizzie.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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kwikki said:
...
Yeah....turns out she was right to think that. She obviously knew she was in the right.
lol. previously your claim was that ukad tried to get her banned.
then how could she have been so sure she was going to be let off?

or are you just saying whatever comes into your mind to defend both her and UKAD?

seems you want to have the cake and eat it.
guess what, you can't.
 
Re: Re:

kwikki said:
sniper said:
IndianCyclist said:
Why is she deleting tweets. Thought she said she didn't care about tests over family. So why is she worried over a couple of harmless tweets.
no time to update whereabouts form. But plenty of time to tweet about wedding bands and then delete those tweets.

This is turning into a no-brainer. Everything she did in between the third strike and the CAS decision suggests she knew this was going to be taken care of.
You don't go promoting your book if there's a chance that you're getting banned from the Games. And the way she raced in that period, too.
This was not an athlete with a potential ban hanging over her head.
This was an athlete who knew for sure she'd be cleared.


Yeah....turns out she was right to think that. She obviously knew she was in the right.
"In the right" is a bit excessive, don't you think? It's not that she's in the right - she still missed the test. It's just that she wasn't the only one in the wrong, the tester was partially at fault too, which gave justifiable cause in CAS' eyes to strike the test. Of course, it doesn't stop the fact that giving bogus reasons for not being at races and taking on marketing commitments riles up opponents, who now realise that if a journalist hadn't blown the lid off it, they'd never have known anything about it, and it would just be another time that Lizzie got sick that prevented her riding races (which seems to happen often, though whether that's simply that Lizzie is prone to illness or that it gives Lizzie an excuse to only show up at those races where her form is good enough to win, because she's that type of competitor; she doesn't like half-assing it and with the exception of the Giro Rosa she will seldom do a race where she's not the team's #1 option - this is one of the biggest reasons why her form for the Olympic RR is guesswork even without the temporary suspension drama).

This is a question that I simply don't know the answer to, but Armitstead explained that her phone was on silent because she didn't want to interrupt her roommate, but who was her roommate at Vårgårda? Surely athletes within the ADAMS system who are teammates rooming together, traveling and training together could homologate their testing times so that you wouldn't have a situation where an athlete needs extra hours of sleep when the other has their testing availability marked? At the very least, could Lizzie not have said to her roommate, "I've got the hotel from 6am to 7am down as my availability for testing tomorrow, so be aware you might get woken up early"?

The Boels team at Vårgårda was:
- Lizzie Armitstead (herself)
- Chantal Blaak (in her 8th pro season)
- Megan Guarnier (in her 6th pro season)
- Christine Majerus (in her 8th pro season)
- Katarzyna Pawlowska (in her 4th pro season)
- Evelyn Stevens (in her 6th pro season)

None of these women are inexperienced, and so it seems odd to me, but maybe that's naïveté. After all, different riders have different training needs and maybe somebody crashed in the Vårgårda TTT or out training and needed to rest up before the road race. Then again, running the risk of missing a dope test to encourage a teammate's recuperation requires a bit of noble selflessness that would be completely out of character for Armitstead too.

As I've said, the fact that I don't like Armitstead and have never tried to disguise that does colour my viewpoint. But as Bridie O'Donnell pointed out, you'd have to be very poorly organized, or very desperate, to miss three tests; given the way she manages her racing form etc. I have trouble believing that her self-discipline off the road is that much worse, and of course now with the knowledge of these missed tests, I find it difficult not to view her periods of invincible form alternating with sickness-related absences and withdrawals with a more cynical eye. And she's tearfully bewailing that people will think she's a cheat because of this, and protesting that she's a fundamentally honest person, right off the back of a three week period where she and everyone around her was in fact being fundamentally dishonest. Certainly her fiancée has absolutely not helped matters (asking people to respect her privacy regarding personal matters is absolutely fair, but Deignan disrespecting others' personal matters is playing with fire) and has thrown another spanner into the works for her in her attempts to alleviate the damage to her personal PR, but also at the same time, the fact that others' responsibility has been invoked has been picked up on, which many who have followed women's cycling for several years have seen time and time again from Lizzie, meaning it's not as tacitly accepted as it might otherwise have been. And the fact that everything was covered up - and seemingly was intended to remain that way - is of course a huge PR blow for her, because it's, shall we say, quite fundamentally dishonest?

However, although we understandably should greet Lizzie's performance and success with a deal more cynicism than previously, and of course knowing about the various missed tests of Froome and Farah and the suspension of Ohuruogu makes dots very easy to join, we do need to keep some perspective. The péloton's harsh reaction may well be about perceiving her as a cheat (and is certainly about a feeling of resentment about preferential treatment in respect of the covering up of the suspension), but it is also coloured in part by her being seen as a selfish and arrogant champion who blames others when she doesn't get her way. The suspension she has avoided is for missed tests, not for positive tests. Of course, there is always the possibility that the former were in order to prevent the latter (was it Hamilton who testified about hiding behind his sofa for an hour when the tester showed up when he was glowing so the tester would think he'd gone out and mark it a miss?), but that is nothing more than conjecture at this point.

Lizzie missing tests and being cleared is not the evidence of a nation-wide doping conspiracy some want to paint it as, at least not in and of itself and in isolation. However, her behaviour in and around the situation has shown that she is still reluctant to take responsibility for those errors that persist, and that she has no qualms about claiming honesty and integrity whilst simultaneously lying or bending the truth to fit the story she wants to present, which will always make it difficult for fans to show the trust in her she has lost and is begging to have back.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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mr61% said:
In the absence of an official statement from CAS, we have little more to go on than the disingenuous spin from Team Armitstead.

Just taking the first missed test that was overturned by CAS, Armitstead's representatives say "CAS also ruled that there was no negligence on Armitstead's part and that she had followed procedures according to the guidelines", which is clearly nonsense as she patently failed to provide her room number contrary to UKAD and BC instructions, ie:
UKAD: "If you are staying in a hotel, you must ensure you have clearly specified your room number in the ‘Additional Information’ section on ADAMS and where possible that the hotel room is booked in your name so any Doping Control Officer can locate you easily."
good spot.
more inconsistency.

It all adds up nicely with the way UKAD 'dealt' with the Stevens/Bonar issue and the fact they havent caught a topathlete in years.
Their mandate seems to be to protect topathletes.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Great post Libertine and excellent post.
However, you're being way too kind in your questioning, because you know as well as i do that your intelligence is being insulted left right and center during this saga.
So when you say
but maybe that's naïveté.
I say, no, you're not naive, you're just looking straight through the BS.
A clean athlete with a strong antidoping stance (which Lizzie claims to have) would do as you describe.
A doper would do what Lizzie ended up doing.

Lizzie missing tests and being cleared is not the evidence of a nation-wide doping conspiracy some want to paint it as, at least not in and of itself and in isolation. However, her behaviour in and around the situation has shown that she is still reluctant to take responsibility for those errors that persist, and that she has no qualms about claiming honesty and integrity whilst simultaneously lying or bending the truth to fit the story she wants to present, which will always make it difficult for fans to show the trust in her she has lost and is begging to have back.
there is no nation wide doping conspiracy.
There's just UKAD (and BC) doing what all other ADAs (and cycling feds) including RUSADA have been doing over the past decades: protect their topathletes as much as is possible.
 
sniper said:
mr61% said:
In the absence of an official statement from CAS, we have little more to go on than the disingenuous spin from Team Armitstead.

Just taking the first missed test that was overturned by CAS, Armitstead's representatives say "CAS also ruled that there was no negligence on Armitstead's part and that she had followed procedures according to the guidelines", which is clearly nonsense as she patently failed to provide her room number contrary to UKAD and BC instructions, ie:
UKAD: "If you are staying in a hotel, you must ensure you have clearly specified your room number in the ‘Additional Information’ section on ADAMS and where possible that the hotel room is booked in your name so any Doping Control Officer can locate you easily."
good spot.
more inconsistency.

It all adds up nicely with the way UKAD 'dealt' with the Stevens/Bonar issue and the fact they havent caught a topathlete in years.
Their mandate seems to be to protect topathletes.

I would imagine they were referring to the WADA guidelines / rules that are the bible here - I understand that is what her lawyer argued (ie she followed the 'rules' as per WADA).
 
Re: Re:

pastronef said:
DanielSong39 said:
Meh, she pulled a Chris Froome. Nothing to see here.

Doubtful she receives the Rasmussen treatment.

Froome missed 1 test. not 3
Exactly; there's a huge difference. Far be it from me to want to defend Froome, but anyone could miss one test in a three year period for some reason or another - that's not news at all. That's why they have the three strikes system.

To miss three tests though is not normal - it's not the kind of thing that just happens. She missed nearly 20% of all here OOC tests. She's either massively incompetent and lacking attention to detail, or she was glowing and had something to hide. Now, what are the chances that a World Champion cyclist, surrounded by a team of analysts and knowing that here whole career and reputation is riding on these tests, is so lacking attention to detail?
 
Aug 14, 2015
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Interesting comment (fwiw) by 'K Vance' under the CN article where Lizzie worries about being seen as a cheat for the rest of her life.

"My husband is a professional cyclist and our entire life revolves around updating his whereabouts, so I have little sympathy for this woman. I was in labour with our first child and it was time to go to the hospital. My husband took a few minutes to sit down and update his whereabouts so the testers would know he was at the hospital.

Family vacations? My children think it is normal to have the testers show up at DisneyWorld. Three years ago we received a call that my mother-in-law was in the hospital and not expected to live. Even in his emotional haze and dash to the airport, he managed to update his whereabouts. He had to update his whereabouts on the day of her funeral. This is just what you do as an athlete. Life happens and family is always most important, but your entire career rests upon these tests and every athlete knows that.

Each athlete lists a testing window where they list exactly where they will be for a two hour window, but testers are allowed to show up at any point and they call you to let you know they are there and waiting. Not showing up within the time allowed is a missed test. My husband has his testing window early in the morning to avoid confusion, but they most often show up around dinner (so you rush home from the restaurant) or school pick up time (get in the car, kids!! HURRY!) I know the element of surprise is important, but I want to make it clear that missing a test is fairly avoidable.

We have been through the agony of a missed test. Let me tell you, your heart stops when that letter shows up certified mail. Thankfully it was a mistake on the part of the tester (they did not read the whereabouts form correctly) and the strike was dismissed after the correct paperwork was completed. How Lizzie let her missed test slide by for months is beyond me. We were walking on eggshells for days and were constantly calling and sending emails to be sure the paperwork had been received.

Most people list not only their mobile phone, but the numbers of others. Spouse, coach, team manager, etc. The testers call everyone and anyone and keep calling until they find the athlete they are seeking.

I have no idea if she has something to hide, but she created this mess and should stop making excuses for her poor choices."
 
Oct 16, 2010
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^brilliant, teflon dub, thanks for posting that.

"we were walking on egg shells for days"
exactly.
Yet Lizzie had time to prepare for big races and promote a book.
She knew from the get go that BC and UKAD had her back.
 
Aug 2, 2016
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TheSpud said:
sniper said:
mr61% said:
In the absence of an official statement from CAS, we have little more to go on than the disingenuous spin from Team Armitstead.

Just taking the first missed test that was overturned by CAS, Armitstead's representatives say "CAS also ruled that there was no negligence on Armitstead's part and that she had followed procedures according to the guidelines", which is clearly nonsense as she patently failed to provide her room number contrary to UKAD and BC instructions, ie:
UKAD: "If you are staying in a hotel, you must ensure you have clearly specified your room number in the ‘Additional Information’ section on ADAMS and where possible that the hotel room is booked in your name so any Doping Control Officer can locate you easily."
good spot.
more inconsistency.

It all adds up nicely with the way UKAD 'dealt' with the Stevens/Bonar issue and the fact they havent caught a topathlete in years.
Their mandate seems to be to protect topathletes.

I would imagine they were referring to the WADA guidelines / rules that are the bible here - I understand that is what her lawyer argued (ie she followed the 'rules' as per WADA).
This is the problem. Without an official statement from CAS, all we can do is imagine, speculate etc, because pretty much all we have to go on is Team Armitstead's naturally very one-sided spin.

At the very least Armitstead has clearly fallen foul of her own country's doping agency guidelines regarding room number disclosure. How CAS responded to this, we have no idea. This is why an official statement from them is not only important, it's essential, in order for cycling fans and the wider public to have any faith at all in the system.
 
mr61% said:
TheSpud said:
sniper said:
mr61% said:
In the absence of an official statement from CAS, we have little more to go on than the disingenuous spin from Team Armitstead.

Just taking the first missed test that was overturned by CAS, Armitstead's representatives say "CAS also ruled that there was no negligence on Armitstead's part and that she had followed procedures according to the guidelines", which is clearly nonsense as she patently failed to provide her room number contrary to UKAD and BC instructions, ie:
UKAD: "If you are staying in a hotel, you must ensure you have clearly specified your room number in the ‘Additional Information’ section on ADAMS and where possible that the hotel room is booked in your name so any Doping Control Officer can locate you easily."
good spot.
more inconsistency.

It all adds up nicely with the way UKAD 'dealt' with the Stevens/Bonar issue and the fact they havent caught a topathlete in years.
Their mandate seems to be to protect topathletes.

I would imagine they were referring to the WADA guidelines / rules that are the bible here - I understand that is what her lawyer argued (ie she followed the 'rules' as per WADA).
This is the problem. Without an official statement from CAS, all we can do is imagine, speculate etc, because pretty much all we have to go on is Team Armitstead's naturally very one-sided spin.

At the very least Armitstead has clearly fallen foul of her own country's doping agency guidelines regarding room number disclosure. How CAS responded to this, we have no idea. This is why an official statement from them is not only important, it's essential, in order for cycling fans and the wider public to have any faith at all in the system.

Yes, her actions are rather cavalier, not one of a clean athlete who would not be concerned with being tested. She appears to do all she can to avoid being tested at given times.

No room number, phone on silent it's almost like she it was done with intent.
 
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TeflonDub said:
We have been through the agony of a missed test. Let me tell you, your heart stops when that letter shows up certified mail. Thankfully it was a mistake on the part of the tester (they did not read the whereabouts form correctly) and the strike was dismissed after the correct paperwork was completed. How Lizzie let her missed test slide by for months is beyond me. We were walking on eggshells for days and were constantly calling and sending emails to be sure the paperwork had been received.
We're supposed to believe the lies of a proven cheat, a doper who is clearly being protected by UKAD/BC, getting a dodged test expunged without even having to go to CAS? This is bogus, propaganda, self-serving lies.
 
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DFA123 said:
To miss three tests though is not normal
Rosa. Misses one test that's his fault. Then UCI mess up twice in three days, bringing him to three in twelve months.

How many Rosas are there out there? We don't know, we don't get the stats. Yet still people are able to state categorically what is and what is not normal.