The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[roadfreak44]

ouch

Well youre probably right about the sound judgement bit...however when i followed landis trial and it was reveled that the head of the lndd lab stood over the technicians work area for hours and demanded that "something " be found and that they had identified to the technician whose blood was being tested and then the german guy (forget his name ) who made the machine and claibrated it for lndd said that the test results were copmpletely wrong and that the information made no sense wahtsoever. I kinda went to Floyd as being believable...Also at the time the Lndd Brass was standing over this technician teller her to "find something" yet for the hours and hours of tests she didnt notice synthetic testosterone...that took DAYS more to find...hmmmm. I thought that was fishy then...still do...but i guess im still lacking sound judgement...

 

[Anonymous]

Well youre probably right about the sound judgement bit...however when i followed landis trial and it was reveled that the head of the lndd lab stood over the technicians work area for hours and demanded that "something " be found and that they had identified to the technician whose blood was being tested and then the german guy (forget his name ) who made the machine and claibrated it for lndd said that the test results were copmpletely wrong and that the information made no sense wahtsoever. I kinda went to Floyd as being believable...Also at the time the Lndd Brass was standing over this technician teller her to "find something" yet for the hours and hours of tests she didnt notice synthetic testosterone...that took DAYS more to find...hmmmm. I thought that was fishy then...still do...but i guess im still lacking sound judgement...

You sent money to an obvious doper. I mean, it was OBVIOUS to anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of cycling. Only people blinded by hero worship would have thought differently. I mean, we tried to tell you guys all along that you were not being very smart with your money, but you sent money anyway. I wonder how many of you have sent money that that Kenyan prince who needs to get his money to the US with the help of a nice American who will share handsomely in the fortune if they will just wire a couple of thousand to a bank account. Those guys are pretty believable too I guess?

 

[Runitout]

You sent money to an obvious doper. I mean, it was OBVIOUS to anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of cycling. Only people blinded by hero worship would have thought differently. I mean, we tried to tell you guys all along that you were not being very smart with your money, but you sent money anyway. I wonder how many of you have sent money that that Kenyan prince who needs to get his money to the US with the help of a nice American who will share handsomely in the fortune if they will just wire a couple of thousand to a bank account. Those guys are pretty believable too I guess?

TFF - I always thought you were pretty smart- btw is that username a Books reference?- but you are debating with a poster who equated Papp with LeMond.

Isn't that almost the definition of guaranteed futility?

 

[Pedaaldanser]

You sent money to an obvious doper.

Happens all the time.

 

[sartain]

And of course you know that they're not...

I've only met one of them. So yes, because like attracts like.

Sartain

 

[Anonymous]

TFF - I always thought you were pretty smart- btw is that username a Books reference?- but you are debating with a poster who equated Papp with LeMond.

Isn't that almost the definition of guaranteed futility?

Just having a yak.

No, the name is what I would put on a piece of cardboard if I had to panhandle. I am not sure I would make that much money if I had to panhandle and that was my sign, but it seems like a good panhandling marketing scheme.

 

[Kennf1]

Not Sure? I guess its because I have this annoying habit of being logical about contradictory and or illogical information which Landis seems to be a virtual fountain of. So there was a 24 hour guard on lances freezer? LA didnt ever sleep but stayed awake at night "watching the freezer?"
How exactly does one "watch a freezer?' wil this elevate into an olympic sport? So the crappy bosch appliance poops to bed and Floyd "rescues the blood." Does he run down to the neighborhood convenience store with it and say excuse me , Gotta use your cooler for a few hours while the repairman comes to repair the crappy bosch freezer?" Seems to me if you ahd some3one on freezer watch they wopuld rundimentary repair skills in case it actually broke down? sorry dude this is all too laughable...thats at best...

Now that would be silly nearly as silly as believing that soemeone "watches the freezer". If you were to be absolutely certain that the blood was so and so degrees you would have to open the door of the freezer to continually monitor the thermometer. of course opening the door would change the "Exact temperature" needed...Landis' words not mine. Call me silly but that scenario makes ZERO sense...On the day that landis alleges the team was on their backs getting drip bags of blood the temperature in france was 95 degrees fahrenheit...that my friends is HOT...yet the blood was stored in a
false bottom cooler stored at EXACTLY how many degrees?
and the business about" Mr Armstrong says he doesnt use EPO anymore" when Landis FIRST MET HIM ,then "He gave me six syringes of EPO at his apartment" or he tested for epo at the tour de suisse...which was the WRONG YEAR!how much of this SILLY nonsense has to be explained?
Floyd is a person who changes the story to suit his maniacal needs and or mood..
end of story...I want my fifty bucks back as well
yeah he sucker punched me too...anything for a buck eh Floyd?
silly me...i believed the ***...
apparently some still do...
sorry I upset you ...GREG

Here is what I don't understand about people who are now refusing to believe Landis. Do you not believe that Landis used blood transfusions, or do you just not believe that Amstrong was involved? If you believe that Landis did use transfusions (as well as HGH, EPO, etc.), do you think that he was the ONLY one on the U.S. Postal team doing it? That he hid it from the team leader and DS day in, day out?

 

[bobs nob]

Here is what I don't understand about people who are now refusing to believe Landis. Do you not believe that Landis used blood transfusions, or do you just not believe that Amstrong was involved? If you believe that Landis did use transfusions (as well as HGH, EPO, etc.), do you think that he was the ONLY one on the U.S. Postal team doing it? That he hid it from the team leader and DS day in, day out?

As a former Lance fanboy, I used to just summarize all the allegations as resentment, jealousy, or people who were trying to shake him down for $$. He's also a self-admitted a-hole so that also factored into my defenses as people who just got sick of his attitude. I don't think I would have had much difficulty rationalizing all of this story.

 

[MacRoadie]

Cycling Weekly Weighs In

Cycling Weekly weighs in on the WSJ article:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/475502/armstrong-under-fire-as-landis-allegations-reach-mainstream-america.html

This is what I've been trying to say:

Those who have been following cycling on a day-by-day basis may have been underwhelmed by the allegations in the article. Anyone who has taken a look at the wild west that is the online forum community will have heard similar stuff for years. They may be tempted to say it's all been denied before and nothing has ever come of it, so what's new?

However, the Wall Street Journal article is hugely significant for two reasons.

Firstly, it is a credible, mainstream newspaper that people read over their breakfast cereal and coffee - not an internet forum where the wild conspiracies have to be sorted from the grains of truth. Secondly, the article provided a level of detail we have not seen before, certainly not in print. The article gives a date and a place. It says that on July 12, 2004, the Tour de France rest day, Johan Bruyneel organised blood transfusions for Landis, Armstrong, George Hincapie and Jose Luis Rubiera. It says that Lance Armstrong doped during that Tour.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

there are allegations of cheating in every sport...........what's new?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

there are allegations of cheating in every sport...........what's new?

It is not that this is new, though the extended details and further reference to corroboration is.

It is that this has gone past a tipping point where these are really not "unsubstantiated" any longer, simply by virtue that the Wall St. Journal put it to print. They toss this out there and they are the curing agent that makes the story stick.

From what has been passed on to me, there are many things omitted. Supposedly the injunction was a prank rumor, so anything left off was either held back for another story or could not pass review.

 

[Race Radio]

there are allegations of cheating in every sport...........what's new?

.....and the newspaper should stop reporting on crime, it is everywhere so why write about it?

 

[thehog]

Thanks Hog. Only just picked up this post. I hope you're wrong and from what you're saying others need to come forward?

At the end if the day the WSJ article didn't pack the punch is was suppose to. It now requires someone else but not Hamilton and there no one else I can think of who'd give the story the foundation it needs.

I think its over.

Landis gave it his best shot and it was never his main objective but the article caused merely a dint in Team Armstrong. A scratch. Nothing.

No one cares anymore. They don't understand. They don't want to understand.

Broken down buses, taping over smoke arms and hotel room transfusions are fascinating to the likes of myself but the Gen Pub prefer to hear of 7 time winners saving the world and making comebacks to beat the young ones.

It comes down to that everyone thought Landis was lying when he said he didn't dope and now everyone thinks he lying when he said he did dope. Context. Everyone thinks he did dope but lying about everyone else doping. How can you convince the world that Lance snorts coke, bangs strippers, teaches the ins and outs of doping to younger riders when all they know is Livestrong.

None the less Floyd is in a better place now. Seeking therapy has obviously helped. (Note to Tyler to do the same) The guy has had a hell of a ride. He did what he was told, he followed the script, when the grenade went off he jumped it to protect everyone and the system and for what?

The choice he had? Yes I doped and stage 17 was the first and only time. I lost time and made a bad mistake trying to get the time back. Then what? That would have been a lie as well. So protect all and say I never doped. He stood firm, told the world I didn't dope, Lance didn't dope, I saw nothing.

Hold firm.

Then.

Lose father in law.
Lose the case.
Lose to CAS.
Lose your own and other peoples money.
Lose wife.
Lose house.
Lose job.
Lose credibility.
Lose respect.
Lose self respect.

Then.

Suspension ends.
Time to ride again?

Watch as the man who showed and taught you how to dope make a comeback, make money, makes lots of money, gain popularity, gain notoriety, loved by all.

Denied the chance to ride again. Do his job. After all he protected the peloton.

What choice was left? He had to save his own soul. He would have wound up very sick or dead if he didn't.

Both men wrote books which were based on lies, both doped, both won Tour de France.

At the end of the day the two of them are not that far apart.

But its over.


Respect to Vaughters who tried to help. But there are many who could speak that won't. They don't want to be called milk cartons. Speak!

 

[hrotha]

Thanks Hog. Only just picked up this post. I hope you're wrong and from what you're saying others need to come forward?

At the end if the day the WSJ article didn't pack the punch is was suppose to. It now requires someone else but not Hamilton and there no one else I can think of who'd give the story the foundation it needs.

What the...?

 

[Publicus]

What the...?

The Hog does that from time to time. He's right though, it's going to take someone else who was there to blow the lid off things. And that someone doesn't have to be a rider. Could be the guys guarding the door. Or the ones responsible for Prepping the room. Or one of the doctors.

 

[lean mean &green]

The Hog does that from time to time. He's right though, it's going to take someone else who was there to blow the lid off things. And that someone doesn't have to be a rider. Could be the guys guarding the door. Or the ones responsible for Prepping the room. Or one of the doctors.

what is "that" exactly? forgetting which of his multiple user names he is posting under and accidentally replies to his own comments?

 

[Publicus]

what is "that" exactly? forgetting which of his multiple user names he is posting under and accidentally replies to his own comments?

Quotes his own post. Sometimes to keep the conversation moving; other times to give himself kudos.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Juliet Macur, one of the authors of the NY Times article linked earlier in this thread, tweeted this:

A close-up look at George Hincapie's BMC bike before Stage 1 from Rotterdam to Brussels.

But take a look not at the bike, but the leg. What the heck has happened to George's legs?

 

[Kennf1]

Juliet Macur, one of the authors of the NY Times article linked earlier in this thread, tweeted this:



But take a look not at the bike, but the leg. What the heck has happened to George's legs?

George has always had messed up veins on his leg.

 

[Animal]

varicose veins.

 

[Beech Mtn]

It looks painful. I'm assuming it's actually not, since his legs have to be in good shape for riding, but it looks painful.

 

[lean mean &green]

Juliet Macur, one of the authors of the NY Times article linked earlier in this thread, tweeted this:



But take a look not at the bike, but the leg. What the heck has happened to George's legs?

this has come up before. likely the result of "blood pooling" which will happen after vigorous exercise. veins are distensible (stretchy) and do not have smooth muscle to prevent this effect the way artieries do. over time they lose elasticity and will remain stretched out. george is an extreme case but this change is not uncommon in older athletes.

wild accussation alert: manipulating blood volume may exacerbate this effect

helpful hint: to avoid hincapie leg syndrome (HLS) be sure to cool down slowly after exercise. don't jump off your bike and sit with your legs crossed! let the mucular pumps and one way valves do their "thing".

 

[Elagabalus]

And THAT is why you're goddamn right you need someone watching your mini-fridge/freezer if you're blood-doping in continental Europe.

Totally!! My sentiments exactly!! Which leads us to another point of contention. In my experience, Continental European toilets are notoriously unreliable and I would not trust them to handle even small amounts of thick plastic blood bags even when they're cut into small pieces*. Did the teams also bring along a portable snake to deal with the inevitable clog?!!! Or did they pull the smoke detectors because they used some portable incinerator?


*Admittedly, this was a story TOLD to FL by someone else who claims that's what happened.

 

[mikkemus23]

Ah,so we should not get our hopes up for Hincapie, David Z and/or Levi Toolheimer to come forward, even if Novitzky and his team does the good cop/bad cop routine?

 

[velobabee]

Wsj

i have never trusted WSJ, rupert murdoch media manipulation. hell he owns SKY cycling team. but after reading that article. i believe it. i raced mt. bike just about same time when floyd started, actually same first mt race in PA. i am much much older than he, but wiser. know a lot of the boys from back in the day. timmy rutherford, MR - chicken legs teammate, along with thomas frischknecht, team R I T C H E Y. dave mac, team manager. alexi grewal. they all told me the truth, the real truth. you can't handle the truth. they all dope. can now.
L A N C E sucks, just bought his fuking double million dollar home in UTE city, my home of 40 years but had to leave so i didn't have to smell his sticky fraud a**.
G O A W A Y L A N C E
go back to T E X A S where your sorry back end needs to be grounded. damn all the great white collar criminals buy RE in aspen?¿?¿?¿?¿

boy, cycling news is very very strict. don't want to get banned from this one, too, babe†