Dr. Maserati said:What footage?
Sestriere 1992 Chiappucci vs the Banesto Train. Volumes I and II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMnutFbptQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqoH6R-99N0&NR=1
Mind you, Chiappucci chewed them up and spat them out.
The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to
In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.
Thanks!
Dr. Maserati said:What footage?
Bag_O_Wallet said:Sestriere 1992 Chiappucci vs the Banesto Train. Volumes I and II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orMnutFbptQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqoH6R-99N0&NR=1
Mind you, Chiappucci chewed them up and spat them out.
Dr. Maserati said:No train in either of those clips.
On the first Col there are just 2 Banesto riders on the front and in the valley that becomes 3.
They are nowhere in sight on the final climb.
How many times do I have to say that I believe Indurain was doping? OK, last time, let's make sure you're clear on this:Exroadman24902 said:They picked well, Bruyneel did. Anyway, continue on with the get Lance for doping but ignore Indurain..
Exroadman24902 said:Not you again..go search out the footage yourself. You prove it wasn't the case. I know what I saw. Were you around watching the Indurain years?
yeah sorry i was thinking about a couple of interviews he had done earlier with the French Press/cycling magazines.Dr. Maserati said:Davy testified in 2000.
dbrmuz said:If the footage is so abundant why on earth can't you point us in the right direction to find it? Surely you started this thread to educate those of us more ignorant than yourself? Insulting those who disagree with you & telling us to find it ourselves,when we've repeatedly told you we can't,isn't particularly helpful.
Then going off & saying you're done here instead of posting the (non-existent) footage just makes the entire thread absolutely pointless.
Back up your claims.
Bag_O_Wallet said:Isola 2000 - 1993.
Indurain isolated over the second last climb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfplDTiIfFA
Exroadman24902 said:Back up your claims more like. Did you view the Indurain tours? Were you following cycling at that time. I was and saw a dominant Indurain sit behind his team, then smash everyone on the first hard strategic stage (Hautacam, la Plagne, Luxembourg TT). Armstrong adopted this tactic. Armstrong also cheated with a team wide doping regimen it would appear, but you only want one of the two brought to justice whereas I am not a fickle anti-doper. Punish them both by removing their 7 wins each or leave them both alone!
Bag_O_Wallet said:Hautacam - 1994.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0en8OLXG8M
Indurain got attacked left, right, and center - and had to take control on his own. In doing so, the Extraterrestrial kicked the crap out of everyone. But, again, it's a far cry from the blue train.
Exroadman24902 said:Back up your claims more like. Did you view the Indurain tours? Were you following cycling at that time. I was and saw a dominant Indurain sit behind his team, then smash everyone on the first hard strategic stage (Hautacam, la Plagne, Luxembourg TT). Armstrong adopted this tactic. Armstrong also cheated with a team wide doping regimen it would appear, but you only want one of the two brought to justice whereas I am not a fickle anti-doper. Punish them both by removing their 7 wins each or leave them both alone!
Dr. Maserati said:I have to ask - is this a not too subtle shift in position from your OP where you claim Banesto had a 'train' in the mountains.
As for punishing them both - unfortunately there is no investigation currently ongoing in to Indurain, and the SOL has expired - so you're just going to have to make do with Armstrong having some Tour removed.
So what happened to the Banesto Mountain train then?Exroadman24902 said:my point is LA adopted Indurain like tactics in the race, blood doped like Indurain, and had his team buy, employ, retain potential GC threats to Indurain. As for make do with only one. I think they are equal both deserve their wins respected on here, which is only see given for Indurain.
The title of this thread - that you started - is "The Banesto train in the mountains". I think that's what one might call moving the goalposts.Exroadman24902 said:my point is LA adopted Indurain like tactics in the race, blood doped like Indurain, and had his team buy, employ, retain potential GC threats to Indurain. As for make do with only one. I think they are equal both deserve their wins respected on here, which is only see given for Indurain.
Exroadman24902 said:Back up your claims more like. Did you view the Indurain tours? Were you following cycling at that time. I was and saw a dominant Indurain sit behind his team, then smash everyone on the first hard strategic stage (Hautacam, la Plagne, Luxembourg TT). Armstrong adopted this tactic. Armstrong also cheated with a team wide doping regimen it would appear, but you only want one of the two brought to justice whereas I am not a fickle anti-doper. Punish them both by removing their 7 wins each or leave them both alone!
Some research will show that Rominger heavily crashed, twice in the 1994 Tour, either his back or neck was out of whack, effectively removing him from serious contention. He dropped out after about stage 12 or so.Exroadman24902 said:rubbish. He smashed Rominger that day-DAY 1 really of the GC battle 1994. A boring TDF created by Armstrong like tactics.
hrotha said:I like how he's constantly all "did you watch it back then?!! I did!!!", as if everyone else here wasn't even born in 1991-1995.
I think that's speculating a bit much. One could try to guess and re-write a fantasy history with no EPO or blood doping. One where Mottet or LeMond win the 1991 Tour, maybe LeMond comes back in 1992, and Gilles DeLion becomes the rider everyone said he would and wins a Tour or two, and what the heck, Bassons wins the 1999 Tour as well. But there's no doubt Indurain was a huge talent and physical freak, even in a sport with freaks. He also benefited from the fact many of those Tours had very long ITT's and long TTT's, sometimes approaching 300km total. This was an area where he simply was better than anyone else. I'm pretty comfortable with him keeping his jerseys. The only one I suppose that bothers me is 1991. But I'm perhaps equally bothered by 1996 as well. Though both were dramatic years.Dr. Maserati said:I think neither deserve their wins - as its too late for Big Mig we will have to be just content ourselves with Armstrong.
dbrmuz said:The only claim I'm making is that I cannot find any evidence that proves your claim about the Banesto "train".A simple You Tube search,as virtually everyone else posting in this thread has done,will find no evidence of your claim.
What is your problem? You made the bold statement that Banesto controlled the mountains for Indurain and that Postal simply copied that.Why can you not prove that? If I'm so wrong,prove me right,instead of carrying on berating people.Who do you think you are-Armstrong?