The Caleb Ewan vs. Fernando Gaviria Thread

[staubsauger]

I always thought the Colombia misspelling ain't present in other languages then German, because only here it's Kolumbien instead of Colombia!?

He might do the Giro instead of the Tour next year (as his first gt) which certainly would tighten him up regarding hilly racing and makes him fresher than other contenders when he peaks again in fall for the Italian fall classics and the world championships.

 

[Billie]

Unfortunately both were out of contention very early yesterday. Ewan because the guy is just really not made for this kind of stage and Gaviria because he hurt his arm or something like that.
Anyway, now that I think about it, Gaviria is probably one of the big favorites for the worlds next year. Maybe the race is slightly too hard for him but definitely possible.

Gaviria was already far back in like a 4th or 5th group when he rode into Durdridge and dislocated his shoulder.


Ewan never had a chance. was very predictable that he was going to be the first one blown out

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I always thought the Colombia misspelling ain't present in other languages then German, because only here it's Kolumbien instead of Colombia!?

He might do the Giro instead of the Tour next year (as his first gt) which certainly would tighten him up regarding hilly racing and makes him fresher than other contenders when he peaks again in fall for the Italian fall classics and the world championships.

I'd say the Giro is the least likely given he should get to ride all the classics next and Giro afterwards is very taxing, especially for a young guy. He will probably ride Vuelta as his first GT.

I also think he can win WC next year, but Sagan is the overwhelming favourite for that race right now. And you bet Kristof will be motivated, that race is right up in his alley as well. Gaviria had better chances this year, IMO, but there are lots of WC's left for him to win.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

I always thought the Colombia misspelling ain't present in other languages then German, because only here it's Kolumbien instead of Colombia!?

He might do the Giro instead of the Tour next year (as his first gt) which certainly would tighten him up regarding hilly racing and makes him fresher than other contenders when he peaks again in fall for the Italian fall classics and the world championships.

I'd say the Giro is the least likely given he should get to ride all the classics this year and Giro afterwards is very taxing, especially for a young guy. He will probably ride Vuelta as his first GT.

He ain't gonna do the Ardennes classics imho since Etixx has more than enough cards to play there already. So he should be fine for the Giro. He'd potentially win the red jersey with kinda ease in Italy.

If he does ride the Ardennes classics though, then of course you are correct and he might do the Vuelta in preparation for the fall classics and the world championships instead!

 

[Valv.Piti]

I wasn't speaking about the Ardennes, only all the cobbles. But its hard maintaining good form from Omloop, Kuurne, Strade, T-A, MSR to G-W, E3, Flanders, Roubaix and then Giro. The cobbled classics riders doesn't really prefer the Giro after such a schedule, especially if they have aspirations to do well in TdF/Worlds or what have you.

 

[staubsauger]

Well I guess you're right then. But is he really gonna do all the cobbled classics. That's the ultimate question eventually.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

I always thought the Colombia misspelling ain't present in other languages then German, because only here it's Kolumbien instead of Colombia!?

I think it's most of all because of the american Columbia. Washington D.C. (District of Columbia)
Columbia University in NY. They got some Columbias in the States.

Besides that I just don't know why people do it....

 

[yaco]

Docker did his best to get Ewan into the echelon - Actually reckon Docker should have left Ewan behind and ridden into the first echelon - Would have given Australia another card in the final, especially allowing Docker to attack on the circuit.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Well I guess you're right then. But is he really gonna do all the cobbled classics. That's the ultimate question eventually.

He definitely should, but lets see.

 

[dirkprovin]

Ewan never had a chance. was very predictable that he was going to be the first one blown out

Docker did his best to get Ewan into the echelon - Actually reckon Docker should have left Ewan behind and ridden into the first echelon - Would have given Australia another card in the final, especially allowing Docker to attack on the circuit.

Fully concur; he's always going to be unhitched as soon as they put the hammer down unless he's right at the front and completely surrounded by team mates. He was only ever going to be C option at best so why sacrifice others. Looking at upcoming Worlds, his career senior Worlds CV is likely to be not one that he will seek to publicise.

Would not surprise that other WT teams will also have taken note and, barring major steps up in his endurance/engine over the next 2 years, it would not surprise if his market value come next contract renewal is not quite what he and his management would like. Hopefully, OBE will be cutting him adrift as. whilst he can certainly bring in some cheap wins, he is just not going to be a viable commodity to take to GTs & he's not a realistic contender for any one dayer with any hills that will be raced hard.

 

[yaco]

Dirk - As I posted months ago Ewan will not be riding the TDF - Expect him to ride again ride the Giro.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

Dirk - As I posted months ago Ewan will not be riding the TDF - Expect him to ride again ride the Giro.

Never intimated that he would go to the Tour. My question is WHY would you select him for ANY GT where they are seriously pursuing GC ambitions ??

Even if, by some completely remote chance, he flukes a stage victory early in the race; his very selection is counter-productive to the team's primary aims. They will NOT be in a position to give him the level of support that other front line sprinters may receive due to them being the prime focus for those teams.

Can he survive the full distance of a GT, especially some of the heavy-duty stuff we see in the Giro ?? Fat chance, more than likely they'd have to "drag" him before 2nd rest day thus leaving your team one man down. He has absolutely zero "grunt utility" in support of your main main unlike other quickish men on their books.

I just see him as an extraordinarily poor fit for OBE going forward and one can only hope he get's "itchy feet" over the next year or so. Sadly, his lamentable showing last Sunday in Doha broadcast his grave shortcomings to the entire cycling world and most potential future employers.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Dirk - As I posted months ago Ewan will not be riding the TDF - Expect him to ride again ride the Giro.

Never intimated that he would go to the Tour. My question is WHY would you select him for ANY GT where they are seriously pursuing GC ambitions ??

Even if, by some completely remote chance, he flukes a stage victory early in the race; his very selection is counter-productive to the team's primary aims. They will NOT be in a position to give him the level of support that other front line sprinters may receive due to them being the prime focus for those teams.

Can he survive the full distance of a GT, especially some of the heavy-duty stuff we see in the Giro ?? Fat chance, more than likely they'd have to "drag" him before 2nd rest day thus leaving your team one man down. He has absolutely zero "grunt utility" in support of your main main unlike other quickish men on their books.

I just see him as an extraordinarily poor fit for OBE going forward and one can only hope he get's "itchy feet" over the next year or so. Sadly, his lamentable showing last Sunday in Doha broadcast his grave shortcomings to the entire cycling world and most potential future employers.

Ewan will ride a GT in 2017 as this is an expectation for every rider in the peleton, except for neo-pro's - My guess is will be the Giro, though the TDF profile seems suitable - Anyway Ewan will be riding cobbles during the Classics.

 

[staubsauger]

Since Orica stated they're interested in the general classification of the Tour in 2017 it's more than likely that they send Ewan to the Giro d' Italia if Chaves & the Yates go to France!

 

[yaco]

Re:

Since Orica stated they're interested in the general classification of the Tour in 2017 it's more than likely that they send Ewan to the Giro d' Italia if Chaves & the Yates go to France!

The plan was never for Ewan to ride the TDF, though the profile is appealing - Think it will be the Giro.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Since Orica stated they're interested in the general classification of the Tour in 2017 it's more than likely that they send Ewan to the Giro d' Italia if Chaves & the Yates go to France!

The plan was never for Ewan to ride the TDF, though the profile is appealing - Think it will be the Giro.

Stephens is smart, he's not going to throw Ewan to the wolves yet. He'll make his Tour debut in 2018 at the earliest.

Their patience with the rest of their young riders has paid off, so I don't think they'll rush Ewan either.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Since Orica stated they're interested in the general classification of the Tour in 2017 it's more than likely that they send Ewan to the Giro d' Italia if Chaves & the Yates go to France!

The plan was never for Ewan to ride the TDF, though the profile is appealing - Think it will be the Giro.

Stephens is smart, he's not going to throw Ewan to the wolves yet. He'll make his Tour debut in 2018 at the earliest.

Their patience with the rest of their young riders has paid off, so I don't think they'll rush Ewan either.

OBE hierarchy have also shown themselves to be hard cold realists and have not been backward in "moving on" AUS riders (and others) who haven't measured up or proven themselves "poor fits" with the team chemistry. If Mr Showboater is still not showing significantly enhanced "survivability" (either when the road goes upwards or echelon racing); they may well make that call.

Ewan will ride a GT in 2017 as this is an expectation for every rider in the peleton, except for neo-pro's - My guess is will be the Giro, though the TDF profile seems suitable - Anyway Ewan will be riding cobbles during the Classics.

Would love to know where you located THAT rule ?? :lol: Granted, with the reduction in team numbers, it is probably becoming more the case but I still stand by what I said with regards to his selection being counter-productive. At a team where the focus IS sprints/stage wins; it would be a very different matter but OBE has now moved on from this.

Ewan on cobbles ..... oh puhleeze :twisted: That should be a laugh. The only one where he's a half decent chance of finishing is Kuurne-Brussels-Kuurne. Realistically, the team are pursuing these races more seriously and, again, can you afford to include a passenger ? Still .... if it serves to further expose his limitations then a purpose may be served.

Maybe other teams priorities can/will mesh with Ewan's (limited) skill set but OBE is no longer such a team. Any sprinter/fast man that they take to ANY GT has to have survivability plus the capacity to play a constructive role in the prime GC planning. Matthews possesed these capacities (survivability/strong TTT member) and the likes of Cort have survivability plus engine ............. I'm just not seeing Ewan ever possessing such characteristics. Even with one day races; what are his possibilities ?? Hamburg ?? Ride London ?? Can't see him being a factor for MSR & Bretagne Classic & Laurentian races; even Cuddle's Race looks too hard.

 

[42x16ss]

How has Ewan proven to be a poor fit? He seems to mesh well with the team and has gotten solid results for a 21yo. Not everyone can come straight onto the scene like Sagan did. Gaviria is slightly ahead of Ewan but both are well ahead of where a 22yo would normally be.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re:

How has Ewan proven to be a poor fit? He seems to mesh well with the team and has gotten solid results for a 21yo. Not everyone can come straight onto the scene like Sagan did. Gaviria is slightly ahead of Ewan but both are well ahead of where a 22yo would normally be.

Yes, he's got a GT stage win to his name ............. so has Tyler Farrar & Robbie Hunter ! Yes, he can probably snag wins aplenty at TdU; maybe at some of the "lesser tier" one weekers. He's won Hamburg ...... just where else can you really see him picking up major wins ??

Yes, he's only 21; people keep proclaiming but barring methods we cannot name; his physiology "is what it is". He's not going to suddenly sprout another 3in in height and any further bulk will count against his already lamentable uphill capacity. In many ways, he is the prisoner of his advance publicity. He can "bash up" at lower levels but he just hasn't the fire-power to match the big boys and is unlikely to ever do so. Nor does he have the versatility to widen his scope to be able to win in tougher terrain.

Why do I consider him a poor fit ? NOT, on the grounds of personal relations within the team but simply his skill set. At the time of his original signing, there WAS far more scope for him to advance via OBE but the advance of Chaves & both Yates shuts off the majority of his high profile opportunities:

- Any one weeker that they attend = this will understandably be priority 1 leaving only the "lesser tier" one weekers such as TdU, Poland, Eneco, Cali/Turkey (if they choose to enter).
- Do you honestly see any team with serious GC aspirations VOLUNTARILY going one man down by half way of a GT ?? Well; that's what you're budgeting for if you select him to for a GT for the next 2 seasons.
- What one dayers bar Hamburg & probably Ride London ? Not seeing him making any showings at the top tier cobbled races. MSR - too far and certainly not if they race the last 2 hills hard. Ardennes - nyet; San Sebastian - too hard ditto Laurentian Races. Even the hills at the back of Cuddle's circuit are too hard.

Yes; I feel that he CAN potentially have an ongoing future in international pro cycling but I just don't think that OBE can be that vehicle beyond the end of his existing contract. Other teams will still base themselves around bunch sprint results; that's who he/his manager need to "shop" him to.

 

[yaco]

I agree that OBE is very calculating and hard-headed when it comes to riders, especially Australian riders, which is leading to good results. Ewan will ride a GT in 2017 for two reasons - One because he can win a stage and second because the workload needs to be shared around the team - Ewan needs to improve his skill set,hence him trying to ride on cobbles, though I'm not worried about his endurance, which is coming along for a second year professional - I can say Ewan is a long way behind Gaviria - Finally, Docker needs to finish a GT in 2017 to earn a new contract - No GT's in 2016 which was partially caused by injuries and in 2015 he withdrew halfway through the 2015 Vuelta because he couldn't keep up with the peleton.

 

[RedheadDane]

Just dragging this up again because of an observation I've made during the last few days nights while watching his crazy sprint-style.

He's kinda - at least to me - proof of the fact that you can't really be a scaredycat if you're a sprinter. If he started speculating too much about what would happen if his front wheel was blocked he could possibly lose his sprinting ability...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Just dragging this up again because of an observation I've made during the last few days nights while watching his crazy sprint-style.

He's kinda - at least to me - proof of the fact that you can't really be a scaredycat if you're a sprinter. If he started speculating too much about what would happen if his front wheel was blocked he could possibly lose his sprinting ability...

I've thought the same. Im usually a bit scared just to sprint normally and never really does it unless I have to, but christ, his head is almost touching the road.

That doesn't change the fact that Gaviria still is a much better bike rider. I can see Ewan's ceiling being a sprinter like McEwen (who rightfully is very proud and glad to have Ewan), while Gaviria potential pretty much is limitless.

 

[RedheadDane]

I just realised I kinda posted this in the wrong thread... thought this was the main Caleb Ewan thread, not a Caleb Ewan vs. [insert rider here] thread...

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Just dragging this up again because of an observation I've made during the last few days nights while watching his crazy sprint-style.

He's kinda - at least to me - proof of the fact that you can't really be a scaredycat if you're a sprinter. If he started speculating too much about what would happen if his front wheel was blocked he could possibly lose his sprinting ability...

I've thought the same. Im usually a bit scared just to sprint normally and never really does it unless I have to, but christ, his head is almost touching the road.

That doesn't change the fact that Gaviria still is a much better bike rider. I can see Ewan's ceiling being a sprinter like McEwen (who rightfully is very proud and glad to have Ewan), while Gaviria potential pretty much is limitless.

Gaviria IMO will go along a similar path as Boonen and Hushovd while Ewan will be similar to McEwen or Freire. Some overlapping qualities but two different riders overall.

 

[qwerty16]

Re: Re:

Just dragging this up again because of an observation I've made during the last few days nights while watching his crazy sprint-style.

He's kinda - at least to me - proof of the fact that you can't really be a scaredycat if you're a sprinter. If he started speculating too much about what would happen if his front wheel was blocked he could possibly lose his sprinting ability...

I've thought the same. Im usually a bit scared just to sprint normally and never really does it unless I have to, but christ, his head is almost touching the road.

That doesn't change the fact that Gaviria still is a much better bike rider. I can see Ewan's ceiling being a sprinter like McEwen (who rightfully is very proud and glad to have Ewan), while Gaviria potential pretty much is limitless.

Gaviria IMO will go along a similar path as Boonen and Hushovd while Ewan will be similar to McEwen or Freire. Some overlapping qualities but two different riders overall.

I think Ewan will me nothing like Freire. McEwen (or Cavendish) is a better comparisation. Gaviria should not go the Boonen/Hushovd-route and focus on the Northern classics like he seems to want at the moment.

He (Gaviria) should go the Freire-route (and while doing that getting everthing out of his talents unlike Freire who, despite his many big wins, wasted a lot of his talent).