What I would love to see is someone who is smart enough to re-create a bike like this and enter a local race and win it. Then reveal the motor after the race to prove the point that this is feasible. Sounds like a project for someone with more time and money than I have, but I believe that there should be many out there who could pull this off if it really is feasible .
I've always been a Cancellara fan, but those accelerations look so unnatural- the huge increase in speed up steep climbs with no change in cadence or no increase in strain of the legs. I do have to say, though, that those hand movements don’t really say much to me. Of course, I wasn’t there in person, only having seen a few videos.
I do worry that this may be merely a distraction from “Landis-gate” and that stuff might get swept under the rug like so many other allegations regarding a certain rider from Austin, Texas.
I've always been a Cancellara fan, but those accelerations look so unnatural- the huge increase in speed up steep climbs with no change in cadence or no increase in strain of the legs. I do have to say, though, that those hand movements don’t really say much to me. Of course, I wasn’t there in person, only having seen a few videos.
I do worry that this may be merely a distraction from “Landis-gate” and that stuff might get swept under the rug like so many other allegations regarding a certain rider from Austin, Texas.
The 'doped bike' insinuations revolve around the Cassani piece and Cancellara's rides. It hasn't yet been proven that a mechanically-assisted bike can win races. At the moment, we know that mechanically-assisted bikes exist and we can only speculate what the Saxo rider and his team may or may not have done.
For this contributer, nothing is beyond Bjarne Riis and his Saxo team. They are at the smelly end of the dirty-clean continuum with the Directeur Sportif's past as a winning doper and Frank Schleck's payments in the Peurto scandal. Cancellara himself, although an exciting rider who possesses perhaps the best physique of any pro (this latter point is part of his appeal, for homoeroticism is a significant factor in sport and its popularity), isn't above nefarious dealings in my opinion. His comments on other riders demonstrate he's another ego-driven rider who thinks he has a mandate to do as he pleases in the peloton. For these reasons, the rider and his team can't be above suspicion.
Riis had a shady motivation for confessing in 06: he was taking on the sins of his current riders in an attempt to make the team look clean and progressive. I don't think it's worked.
The accusations of the Saxo doped bike haven't gone away. Cancellara's accellerations without any apparent effort on his behalf looked really sus. Exciting yes, but suspect.
My two cents. Got change for a dime?
For this contributer, nothing is beyond Bjarne Riis and his Saxo team. They are at the smelly end of the dirty-clean continuum with the Directeur Sportif's past as a winning doper and Frank Schleck's payments in the Peurto scandal. Cancellara himself, although an exciting rider who possesses perhaps the best physique of any pro (this latter point is part of his appeal, for homoeroticism is a significant factor in sport and its popularity), isn't above nefarious dealings in my opinion. His comments on other riders demonstrate he's another ego-driven rider who thinks he has a mandate to do as he pleases in the peloton. For these reasons, the rider and his team can't be above suspicion.
Riis had a shady motivation for confessing in 06: he was taking on the sins of his current riders in an attempt to make the team look clean and progressive. I don't think it's worked.
The accusations of the Saxo doped bike haven't gone away. Cancellara's accellerations without any apparent effort on his behalf looked really sus. Exciting yes, but suspect.
My two cents. Got change for a dime?
- Apr 11, 2009
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Think next year:
http://www.khulsey.com/motorcycles/vintagebike-images/michaux-perreaux-steam-cycle_sm.jpeg
All kidding aside, I noted the Boordman article in CN today and was reminded of a previous post of my own. I took the time to look up the gentleman seeking venture capital from us who had invented a small motor powerful enough to drill through plate steel on two AA batteries. I saw it and asked how easy it would be to modify it to turn a crank. He said the motor he had invented was too powerful for that and might cause damage to the bike frame, it would have to be geared down. I asked for a link to his products to show and since he is still acquiring a patent did not want to show it. The only thing he did say is this is fairly old technology (5+ years) and he does not doubt for a second such a motor exists. When i can show more I will.
http://www.khulsey.com/motorcycles/vintagebike-images/michaux-perreaux-steam-cycle_sm.jpeg
All kidding aside, I noted the Boordman article in CN today and was reminded of a previous post of my own. I took the time to look up the gentleman seeking venture capital from us who had invented a small motor powerful enough to drill through plate steel on two AA batteries. I saw it and asked how easy it would be to modify it to turn a crank. He said the motor he had invented was too powerful for that and might cause damage to the bike frame, it would have to be geared down. I asked for a link to his products to show and since he is still acquiring a patent did not want to show it. The only thing he did say is this is fairly old technology (5+ years) and he does not doubt for a second such a motor exists. When i can show more I will.
- Apr 17, 2009
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Di-2 Dies?
Could this lead to the death of Shimano's Di-2 in an attempt to ban batteries from bikes?
From Boardman:
I'm sure somebody could find a way to tap into the Di-2 battery and connect it to the engine, or blame any humming on the Di-2 battery (even if they are silent). Not to mention the obvious that pushing the button would look just like pushing the Di-2 button. If I'm not mistaken they can put the Di-2 buttons just about anywhere on the bike, and, therefore, use them as the engine buttons or to hide the engine button.
Could this lead to the death of Shimano's Di-2 in an attempt to ban batteries from bikes?
From Boardman:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/boardman-warned-the-uci-of-risks-of-bike-doping
I'm sure somebody could find a way to tap into the Di-2 battery and connect it to the engine, or blame any humming on the Di-2 battery (even if they are silent). Not to mention the obvious that pushing the button would look just like pushing the Di-2 button. If I'm not mistaken they can put the Di-2 buttons just about anywhere on the bike, and, therefore, use them as the engine buttons or to hide the engine button.
dickwrench
BANNED
- May 13, 2010
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Ok this is all cool and all but that means Contadoper had a strong one of these motors when he beat Cancelara in the tour time trial last year before Mount Ventoux. And Andy Schick is on Cancelara's team so he probably has one. You guys should not trust Riis because he was Mr. 60% epo test guy when he won the tour so he has no morals. The whole CSC team propbably has these motors in the frames as well as taking EPO and insulin.
When all of this comes out in the wash then hopefully Lance will become the winner of the 2009 Tour due to the competition using these things and so they will be disqualified.
When all of this comes out in the wash then hopefully Lance will become the winner of the 2009 Tour due to the competition using these things and so they will be disqualified.
dickwrench said:
So everyone except Lance is dirty? Even his then-team mate doped right in front of him? Why didn't he expose him then?
I think I get you now: you're being ironic! Your posts are an exaggeration of fanboyism! I love it, well done.
- May 25, 2009
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- Jul 30, 2009
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CycloErgoSum said:
phew. Im glad I am not the only one who thinks that (in a straight homoerotic way of course). I have given up trying to justify leg-shaving and now just say 'because it looks good and cycling is very homoerotic'.
(Girls seem to appreciate this explanation much more than 'massage'/'road rash' or any of the other stock excuses)
So while I agree about the studly buffedness of Spartacus (yet more homo vibes) and his lack of self-doubt, I do actually think he has so little self-doubt that he could coutenance this kind of assistance. It would be to deny his own supremacy.
Riis on the other hand...
The Riis by remote control, Cancellara unaware remains my fave of the conspiracy theories so far.
- Apr 5, 2010
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dickwrench said:
LOL! don't forget the amphetamines, crack, heroin and wh0res to calm the nerves at the end of the day! This thread is so insane dickwrench's post fits right in without the need to take it sarcastically.
Sit back and take a deep breath. Even better, get on your bikes and ride. There was no motor in FC's bike. Sheesh.
oldschoolnik said:Wait, Dickwrench isn't being ironic with his posts and signature?
I used to take him at face value, but the guy's gotta be joking! CN's first forum performance artist!
dickwrench said:
A fan of the dirty and highly corrupt Pharmstrong camp seems to have found an even more wicked target
It will also be interesting whether Dopador - now not under protection of the holy yellow wristband army anymore - might be tested positive one of these days...
I think in terms of ethics and moral, people like Lefevre, Riis or Bruyneel would inject whatever is necessary in the bodies or bikes of their riders just to win and cash in...
Sorry for temporarily co-hijacking the thread, let's try to focus on the e.doped.bike issue again.
Gruber Assist
Does the UCI know how to use Google ? A search has turned up a device called The Gruber Assist. It shouldn't be hard to detect, officials only need to remove the seat post, shouldn't be a big deal, you would think.
Does the UCI know how to use Google ? A search has turned up a device called The Gruber Assist. It shouldn't be hard to detect, officials only need to remove the seat post, shouldn't be a big deal, you would think.
la.margna said:A fan of the dirty and highly corrupt Pharmstrong camp seems to have found an even more wicked target
It will also be interesting whether Dopador - now not under protection of the holy yellow wristband army anymore - might be tested positive one of these days...
I think in terms of ethics and moral, people like Lefevre, Riis or Bruyneel would inject whatever is necessary in the bodies or bikes of their riders just to win and cash in...
Sorry for temporarily co-hijacking the thread, let's try to focus on the e.doped.bike issue again.
That has tended to happen, hasn't it! He could be next to join an ever-expanding pantheon.
I agree, back to the doped bike. On a practical, non-racing aspect, a small and inconspicuous motor could help make cycling more attractive to newcomers and commuters, particularly in non-euro countries who often point out the inconvenience of cycling in hilly cities.
From Chris Boardman quoted in CyclingNews.Com:
"Any rider, squad and sponsors involved with a team caught in this way would be dead in the water as far as cycling is concerned. There would be absolutely zero sympathy and no way back into the sport whatsoever. Only desperate people would take that step and there have historically been the odd instance in sport. I suppose the most famous was Boris Onischenko rigging up his sword to score hits at will at the modern pentathlon in 1976. You never say never, so it's right we are on our guard."
There are lots of low cost ways to check - including magnetometers and ultrasonics, especially in carbon fiber bikes. There should also be resistance and/or noise when turning the cranks backwards due to the gears and bearings (use a stethoscope to detect noise).
"I showed them some of the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery."
You might get a kilowatt for a few seconds using a capacitor out of a AAA battery but a more typical output is two watts.
"Any rider, squad and sponsors involved with a team caught in this way would be dead in the water as far as cycling is concerned. There would be absolutely zero sympathy and no way back into the sport whatsoever. Only desperate people would take that step and there have historically been the odd instance in sport. I suppose the most famous was Boris Onischenko rigging up his sword to score hits at will at the modern pentathlon in 1976. You never say never, so it's right we are on our guard."
There are lots of low cost ways to check - including magnetometers and ultrasonics, especially in carbon fiber bikes. There should also be resistance and/or noise when turning the cranks backwards due to the gears and bearings (use a stethoscope to detect noise).
"I showed them some of the sophisticated boosting technology now available, mainly from F1 teams, that can get a kilowatt out of a single AAA battery."
You might get a kilowatt for a few seconds using a capacitor out of a AAA battery but a more typical output is two watts.
- Apr 11, 2009
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Double post from the Cancellera motorized attack thread, but here goes: New York Times quotes Marco Pinotti:
"Marco Pinotti, an Italian who races for HTC-Columbia, said that when he first heard about the hidden motor, “it seemed a stupid thing.” “But then I came to know the technology,” he added, “and I started making connections.”
Because he lacked hard evidence, Pinotti, who finished ninth over all in the Giro d’Italia, declined to say who he thought might be using motorized assistance or in what races it might have been used."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/sp...cycle.html?hpw
"Marco Pinotti, an Italian who races for HTC-Columbia, said that when he first heard about the hidden motor, “it seemed a stupid thing.” “But then I came to know the technology,” he added, “and I started making connections.”
Because he lacked hard evidence, Pinotti, who finished ninth over all in the Giro d’Italia, declined to say who he thought might be using motorized assistance or in what races it might have been used."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/sp...cycle.html?hpw
- Jul 11, 2009
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kcblair said:
Do you know how to read? A search has turned up multiple threads and posts that mention the gruber assist. It shouldn't be hard to detect, forum users only need to read the threads they are replying to, shouldn't be a big deal, you would think.
- Mar 20, 2009
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- Mar 11, 2009
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I just deleted a few posts.
People need to remember to stay on topic and not insult each other. If someone makes a post you don't like or agree with, don't blast back at them. Just ignore it, ignore the person, or if the post is way out of line, report it.
People need to remember to stay on topic and not insult each other. If someone makes a post you don't like or agree with, don't blast back at them. Just ignore it, ignore the person, or if the post is way out of line, report it.
- Sep 25, 2009
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how to test for doped
below i propose a test for a doped bike. It is based on wada methodology.
if the main bike (sample A) failed the uci doped bike scanner, a spare bike should be tested (sample B).
if sample B passed the test (did not fail) - there is no doping offence.
this is perfectly consistent with the uci dope testing
below i propose a test for a doped bike. It is based on wada methodology.
if the main bike (sample A) failed the uci doped bike scanner, a spare bike should be tested (sample B).
if sample B passed the test (did not fail) - there is no doping offence.
this is perfectly consistent with the uci dope testing
- Jun 1, 2010
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All you need is 'someone' to 'donate' between $100-500k to the UCI so that they can purchase said 'bike scanner'.
Parrot23 said:
Pinotti is a very nice and honest guy. He has no motivation and also not the character to lie. I think it just confirms what the Cassani video also does: It is not a hoax, it is reality. Personally, I still don't think FC used it.
ExRower said:
Gruber Assist is no option for FC:
1) does not fit into Specialized Tarmac SL3 frame used by FC for Vlaanderen (27.2 mm seatpost, Gruber Assist requires a 31.6 mm diameter opening)
2) Gruber Assist supports only cadences up to 90RPM
3) Gruber Assist does not yet exist for carbon frames
4) Cassani said that the bike shown and the bike he rode was coming from Hungary, no Gruber Assist
Alpe d'Huez said:
Thanks. As I am rather new to the forum I was not aware. But it is definitely a very good approach, also in real life, just ignore the things that are ridicolous or you can't agree and focus on the important things and targets, avoiding to waste useless energy. Very good!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4395zFPIYAo
Kappelmuur at around 3:20. Boonen climbs the Muur seated. Does this imply he has a motor in his bike?
Kappelmuur at around 3:20. Boonen climbs the Muur seated. Does this imply he has a motor in his bike?
Riis won the tour ... doped. Riis desperately needs a new sugar daddy sponsor... motivation. The more I hear them say were clean, the more my little voice in head sez lying. Teams have prodded riders before. I also think Cancellara is strong maybe strongest, but you just never know. Howls of denial should be just shrugs if there's really nothing to it. I'm beginning to wonder if this has been happening for a while and someone's ratted.
- Apr 11, 2009
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Not sure why folks persist with the Gruber motor angle:
*A team/rider would have to be supremely dumb to buy a commercial motorized assist system, like Gruber. This would have to done by a customized craftsmen, mechanic. There are an infinite number of suitable engines and miniaturized high performance polymer batteries out there that are used in the model aircraft hobby industry, for example. Tons and tons of combinations. Just spend 5mins in the hobby section of your local bookstore.
*Also, citing the above systems is like comparing a clunker commuter bike (which is what McQuaid is doing when he talks about batteries the size of a bag of sugar,) to a racing bike in the peloton. Avail. commercial motorized assists are designed for clunker commuters, fatsos, not high-performance athletes, LOL.
*The point with Cancellera is that OTHER PRO RIDERS are suspicious of seated attacks where someone opens up a huge gap instantaneously, esp. on a hill.* Doesn't apply to Boonen in that YouTube video misdirecting the debate. Other pro riders have concerns.
*re Cance. 20% faster on the key part of the hill (per below and earlier in thread). Crazy difference. Other riders are not happy.
*A team/rider would have to be supremely dumb to buy a commercial motorized assist system, like Gruber. This would have to done by a customized craftsmen, mechanic. There are an infinite number of suitable engines and miniaturized high performance polymer batteries out there that are used in the model aircraft hobby industry, for example. Tons and tons of combinations. Just spend 5mins in the hobby section of your local bookstore.
*Also, citing the above systems is like comparing a clunker commuter bike (which is what McQuaid is doing when he talks about batteries the size of a bag of sugar,
) to a racing bike in the peloton. Avail. commercial motorized assists are designed for clunker commuters, fatsos, not high-performance athletes, LOL.*The point with Cancellera is that OTHER PRO RIDERS are suspicious of seated attacks where someone opens up a huge gap instantaneously, esp. on a hill.* Doesn't apply to Boonen in that YouTube video misdirecting the debate. Other pro riders have concerns.
*re Cance. 20% faster on the key part of the hill (per below and earlier in thread). Crazy difference. Other riders are not happy.
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