The doped bike exists (video of pro version)!

[Cycle Chic]

Tour de France: Chris Froome distracted by motor bike claims during Team Sky tilt

Yet according to Hungarian inventor Istvan Varjas, the authorities buried their heads in the sand for too long.

He demonstrated a motorised bike he had built on Italian TV in 2010 and in April 2015 he spoke to French newspaper l'Equipe.

"People took 10 years to believe in EPO, it's the same for motors. No-one believed it but it's been going on for 17 years," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-17/chris-froome-distracted-by-motor-bike-claims-tour-de-france/6627710

 

[sniper]

Cedric Vasseur explicitly fuelling the motorized bike hypothesis wrt Froome.
Anaylzing stage 10 he says "it's as if his bike is pedalling automatically. (..) at one point Froome seemed broken, yet suddenly he flew off"
Then goes on to mention the lack of motor testing.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1295/Tour-De-France/article/detail/2397224/2015/07/17/Zijn-fiets-rijdt-vanzelf-Froome-incasseert-en-haalt-op-zijn-beurt-uit.dhtml

Jalabert in there also putting major question marks behind Froome's cadence, calling it 'hallucinating' and 'disappointing'.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Team Sky use stages power meters. The strain gauges are installed on the LHS crank arm. If a motor was engaged in the bottom bracket of the bicycle, it would be driving the rear wheel from the bottom bracket spindle back through the chain to the rear wheel. The pressure applied to the LHS pedal would be reduced to zero.

No or much reduced power would be measured by the crank arm.

You would expect to see speed increase, uphill, and power decrease - a physical impossibility.

A quick glance at Froome's power file should sort this out.

 

[carton]

Re:

Cedric Vasseur explicitly fuelling the motorized bike hypothesis wrt Froome.
Anaylzing stage 10 he says "it's as if his bike is pedalling automatically. (..) at one point Froome seemed broken, yet suddenly he flew off"
Then goes on to mention the lack of motor testing.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1295/Tour-De-France/article/detail/2397224/2015/07/17/Zijn-fiets-rijdt-vanzelf-Froome-incasseert-en-haalt-op-zijn-beurt-uit.dhtml

Jalabert in there also putting major question marks behind Froome's cadence, calling it 'hallucinating' and 'disappointing'.

If Vasseur and Jalabert are the voice of anti-doping we're doomed. On the flip side I almost feel bad for them, at least they're trying, I guess. Bike motors have been in the news and everything.

Team Sky use stages power meters. The strain gauges are installed on the LHS crank arm. If a motor was engaged in the bottom bracket of the bicycle, it would be driving the rear wheel from the bottom bracket spindle back through the chain to the rear wheel. The pressure applied to the LHS pedal would be reduced to zero.

No or much reduced power would be measured by the crank arm.

You would expect to see speed increase, uphill, and power decrease - a physical impossibility.

A quick glance at Froome's power file should sort this out.

Sure, 100% agree, but on the other hand I've had several casual fans chat me up all outraged about how the leaked filed proved that Froome was motor doping. Kinda started to get why Froome doesn't release his power files. Also why the UCI is making a big deal about motors.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Someone has since told me Froome is riding SRMs despite the team being sponsored by Stages.

If the spindle is turned by a motor, the strain gauges in the spider will still measure it as power and therefore it will not look any different to being pedaled.

Kinda fortunate eh?

 

[heythorp]

From 2013

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/chris-froomes-bikes-of-choice-28099

 

[Dear Wiggo]

2014 pics show Stages PMs. Which is when Stages started sponsoring Team Sky.

Pretty sure he will be riding a Stages and the method for checking is as simple as looking at his data around the time of an attack.

 

[ray j willings]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/what-is-mechanical-doping

 

[Cycle Chic]

If Froomes heart rate isnt changing and is 140 while climbing ITS A MOTOR - NO OTHER EXPLANATION

 

[LeindersGains]

Instead of testing random bikes for mechanical doping once in a while, they should make testing for mechanical doping mandatory. In every stage, the top 10 should have their bikes tested.

It's just as important as doping control.

 

[LeindersGains]

Re:

If Froomes heart rate isnt changing and is 140 while climbing ITS A MOTOR - NO OTHER EXPLANATION

It's definitely changing, but not much.


I don't know if it's normal or not, but I hope some of the posters in here can tell by analyzing the video.

 

[compete_clean]

I'm late to the thread. Looking at the bike check I thought of cleaver way to dope my bike. If you notice, they took the BB out and used a fiber optic camera to look in the down and seat tubes. A way to defeat this test is to motorize the front wheel.

A permanent magnet couple and stator could be integrated into the front hub. Who is looking for front wheel motors? No one.

An even better approach would be a DC brushless or induction motor where the spokes are the armature poles and the and coils in the forks act as the stator. I presume 40-50watts could be added this way. Starting torque isn't an issue having one pole as the wheel is already turning.

The battery. Aside from Di2 batteries you could integrate batteries in to the bars stem head tube and top tube.

The X-ray could easily be defeated by clever used of thin metal. A magnet would be a better way to sniff this type of manipulation out.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

If Froomes heart rate isnt changing and is 140 while climbing ITS A MOTOR - NO OTHER EXPLANATION

It's definitely changing, but not much.


I don't know if it's normal or not, but I hope some of the posters in here can tell by analyzing the video.

I was one of the first to scream out "fake", as the heart rate changes didn't seemed to match the wattage but I have done some rudimental tests and what I found is that when you are close to your threshold heart rate and significantly increases the wattage, your heart rate won't change that much.

I was hovering at around 180 bmp which is roughly 90 percent of max heart rate for me. Then I did 1 minute intervals, doubling the watts, and my heart rate didn't explode. I got up to about 190 but that was at the end of it, Froomes attacks were not that long. And a 10 bmp increase for me is equivalent to 5,5 % increase. Froomes's heart rate rose from 156 to 161 (iirc) which is equivalent to a 3,2 % increase. Seems to pretty legit considering he was in the middle of a GT.

 

[Benotti69]

Anyone know how many bikes were tested over 3 weeks? a few days ago it was only 19 bikes. They tested 36 bikes at Milan SanRemo so I would expect at least 20 bikes a day to be test at TdF......but then again it is the UCI/ASO we are talking about.......

 

[Benotti69]

LeMond a believer in hidden motors

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

No wonder UCI dont want to test lots of bikes........if the worlds media finds out there are motors in bikes, the sport is dead!!!!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

I was one of the first to scream out "fake", as the heart rate changes didn't seemed to match the wattage but I have done some rudimental tests and what I found is that when you are close to your threshold heart rate and significantly increases the wattage, your heart rate won't change that much.

I was hovering at around 180 bmp which is roughly 90 percent of max heart rate for me. Then I did 1 minute intervals, doubling the watts, and my heart rate didn't explode. I got up to about 190 but that was at the end of it, Froomes attacks were not that long. And a 10 bmp increase for me is equivalent to 5,5 % increase. Froomes's heart rate rose from 156 to 161 (iirc) which is equivalent to a 3,2 % increase. Seems to pretty legit considering he was in the middle of a GT.

And having trained for years with a HRM, I watched the video and believed it was genuine immediately.

A shame we had to put up with your diatribe in the interim.

 

[M Sport]

Re:

Someone has since told me Froome is riding SRMs despite the team being sponsored by Stages.

If the spindle is turned by a motor, the strain gauges in the spider will still measure it as power and therefore it will not look any different to being pedaled.

Kinda fortunate eh?

They have used SRM's in training at times not racing though.

 

[M Sport]

Re:

LeMond a believer in hidden motors

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/07/hidden-motor-demonstration-with-greg-lemond/

No wonder UCI dont want to test lots of bikes........if the worlds media finds out there are motors in bikes, the sport is dead!!!!

In the comments ...

Is this why Michael Rasmussen tends to note people who are climbing with 2 bidons? He usually says something along the lines of "throw it away, it's an extra kilo"

That's from Stage 10 where Froome won the race. All four will be doping, just not motor doping.

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

I was one of the first to scream out "fake", as the heart rate changes didn't seemed to match the wattage but I have done some rudimental tests and what I found is that when you are close to your threshold heart rate and significantly increases the wattage, your heart rate won't change that much.

I was hovering at around 180 bmp which is roughly 90 percent of max heart rate for me. Then I did 1 minute intervals, doubling the watts, and my heart rate didn't explode. I got up to about 190 but that was at the end of it, Froomes attacks were not that long. And a 10 bmp increase for me is equivalent to 5,5 % increase. Froomes's heart rate rose from 156 to 161 (iirc) which is equivalent to a 3,2 % increase. Seems to pretty legit considering he was in the middle of a GT.

And having trained for years with a HRM, I watched the video and believed it was genuine immediately.

A shame we had to put up with your diatribe in the interim.

I know. I am so sorry. You are the best.

 

[zigmeister]

Re: Re:

I was one of the first to scream out "fake", as the heart rate changes didn't seemed to match the wattage but I have done some rudimental tests and what I found is that when you are close to your threshold heart rate and significantly increases the wattage, your heart rate won't change that much.

I was hovering at around 180 bmp which is roughly 90 percent of max heart rate for me. Then I did 1 minute intervals, doubling the watts, and my heart rate didn't explode. I got up to about 190 but that was at the end of it, Froomes attacks were not that long. And a 10 bmp increase for me is equivalent to 5,5 % increase. Froomes's heart rate rose from 156 to 161 (iirc) which is equivalent to a 3,2 % increase. Seems to pretty legit considering he was in the middle of a GT.

And having trained for years with a HRM, I watched the video and believed it was genuine immediately.

A shame we had to put up with your diatribe in the interim.

Are you serious? Can't tell, the HR comment makes no sense. Unless you have a 88-90 V02max and lactate threshold of these guys...makes no difference what your heart rate is.

Furthermore, when you are truly tapped out, your heart rate will no longer be able to reach a peak...it will go down and down and down...thus, not being able to pump blood, which in turn, all that V02 max crap means nothing anymore, because you have no oxygen getting to your body due to lower heart rates.

Many pros have either posted stats on Strava you can look at, or have even said, when they were cooked, they couldn't get their HR above 115bpm...which is what makes Froome "special" if his HR can keep pumping 140-150bpm that deep into fatigue and a race after weeks of racing and big efforts. then again, these guys recover in seconds after an effort. Going 500w, then watching him go back to 300-320w for 15 seconds..then right back up slowly to the 400w range. The recovery time from those efforts are what are incredible, not the not so impressive 600w 15 seconds effort that most monkeys and average riders can do...

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

That's from Stage 10 where Froome won the race. All four will be doping, just not motor doping.

this

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Anyone know how many bikes were tested over 3 weeks? a few days ago it was only 19 bikes. They tested 36 bikes at Milan SanRemo so I would expect at least 20 bikes a day to be test at TdF......but then again it is the UCI/ASO we are talking about.......

the riders will not roll up with a motor now

 

[spalco]

I still very strongly believe motor doping is a *** joke.

I don't doubt it would be technically possible, but I think it's ridiculous it could be used in the pro peloton.

If I'm wrong about that, I would honestly quit following this "sport".

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

I was one of the first to scream out "fake", as the heart rate changes didn't seemed to match the wattage but I have done some rudimental tests and what I found is that when you are close to your threshold heart rate and significantly increases the wattage, your heart rate won't change that much.

I was hovering at around 180 bmp which is roughly 90 percent of max heart rate for me. Then I did 1 minute intervals, doubling the watts, and my heart rate didn't explode. I got up to about 190 but that was at the end of it, Froomes attacks were not that long. And a 10 bmp increase for me is equivalent to 5,5 % increase. Froomes's heart rate rose from 156 to 161 (iirc) which is equivalent to a 3,2 % increase. Seems to pretty legit considering he was in the middle of a GT.

And having trained for years with a HRM, I watched the video and believed it was genuine immediately.

A shame we had to put up with your diatribe in the interim.

Are you serious? Can't tell, the HR comment makes no sense. Unless you have a 88-90 V02max and lactate threshold of these guys...makes no difference what your heart rate is.

Furthermore, when you are truly tapped out, your heart rate will no longer be able to reach a peak...it will go down and down and down...thus, not being able to pump blood, which in turn, all that V02 max crap means nothing anymore, because you have no oxygen getting to your body due to lower heart rates.

Many pros have either posted stats on Strava you can look at, or have even said, when they were cooked, they couldn't get their HR above 115bpm...which is what makes Froome "special" if his HR can keep pumping 140-150bpm that deep into fatigue and a race after weeks of racing and big efforts. then again, these guys recover in seconds after an effort. Going 500w, then watching him go back to 300-320w for 15 seconds..then right back up slowly to the 400w range. The recovery time from those efforts are what are incredible, not the not so impressive 600w 15 seconds effort that most monkeys and average riders can do...

If you don't understand the post, just say that.

Don't spend 2 more paragraphs repeating what I wrote when his video first came out, explaining why his HR response was normal and the data overlay most likely genuine -- something borne out later by Brailsford himself.

Good grief.

 

[Lyon]

Re:

I still very strongly believe motor doping is a **** joke.

I don't doubt it would be technically possible, but I think it's ridiculous it could be used in the pro peloton.

If I'm wrong about that, I would honestly quit following this "sport".

If it exists it will have been used. Thinking otherwise can only come from not having experienced personally the psyche of the modern top athlete (regardless of sport) or, and this is even more interesting, the psyche of the tight knit group he/she is part of.

Believe me, for a lot of these people it is not about whether they can get away with cheating but rather about how much advantage they can gain by it, or, if they themselves chooses not to use it, how much advantage the competition can gain over them. Risk analysis is just an afterthought.