Well I don't know how boonen reacts to cramps in the legs. But when I get cramps I just can't spin my legs more than 60
- Apr 13, 2010
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HL2037 said:
Nothing about your point here, but merely the "here and now" issue.
A lot of the posts on here are focussing on whether it's being used right now and as far as I understand the reports are saying that it was available all the way back in '04.
If that was the case, and it had been used in the pro peloton, it would have been used by a few back then - who would have won races with it, then been copied by others in the meantime meaning that EVERYONE would be riding it now or the whistle would have been blown a log time ago.
imagine the risk for a top rider. he crashes and the pedals continue to turn around.... watched live by millions in front of their TV...
what a shame... incredible... would anyone that has to loose much be so stupid to take such risks? who knows...
what a shame... incredible... would anyone that has to loose much be so stupid to take such risks? who knows...
la.margna said:
Not every system works like that. Usually they support when you pedal and shut off when you hold your legs.
Cozy Beehive said:
I was just about to post this link, than I looked back and saw you posted on here! I don't know much (read: nothing) about physics, but I enjoyed how you analyzed this.
I agree that a rider would understand that there is a fine line between looking amazing and motorized, you would only be able to use for short bursts when being the center of attention. Essentially trigger for an attack and then disengage once you have a gap. My question (which has no answer at this time) is really how much torque can something this small produce? Especially on a gradient. Come on mythbusters!
- Dec 5, 2009
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GRUBER Assist Made No Sale To Cancellara
I had GRUBER check their records. The company says they have no knowledge of a sale to Fabian or his team, or from their dealers. LINK.
racer-x said:
I had GRUBER check their records. The company says they have no knowledge of a sale to Fabian or his team, or from their dealers. LINK.
Cozy Beehive said:
well............if Fabian was stupid enough to order it himself or someone closely related to him........that would go down as one of the dumbest ever
- Jun 14, 2009
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Oh Cripes! And where does Amgen, et al, have records of selling to (insert name). Of course there are no records. They want to be complicit in sporting fraud?
1). A consumer device exists. More advanced technology than that also exists. It is plausible technology.
2). Athletes with everything to loose have doped for years. Barry Bonds was already the best player in baseball with multiple MVPs before his head became the size of a watermelon. So it is plausible that people take these risks.
A motor is a plausible explanation for what we've seen. So is FC at peak form against a Boonen feeling a bit off his feed. So are a variety of PEDs.
I think this one will be harder than most to prove/disprove because now that this is out there, detection is a snap. It will go away quickly and nobody will ever get caught using it.
1). A consumer device exists. More advanced technology than that also exists. It is plausible technology.
2). Athletes with everything to loose have doped for years. Barry Bonds was already the best player in baseball with multiple MVPs before his head became the size of a watermelon. So it is plausible that people take these risks.
A motor is a plausible explanation for what we've seen. So is FC at peak form against a Boonen feeling a bit off his feed. So are a variety of PEDs.
I think this one will be harder than most to prove/disprove because now that this is out there, detection is a snap. It will go away quickly and nobody will ever get caught using it.
- Nov 7, 2009
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Cozy Beehive said:
Wait, you're expecting the name "FABIAN CANCELLARA" to show up on a sales receipt? LOL.
Just because it's possible to install the rumored system into a bike does not make it likely to have occurred.
One can speculate and calculate what it would take to achieve the desired results with a hidden motor IF one were to do it and justify it all day long with numbers and diagrams. That does not make it at all probable.
Those (and there are many of you) that claim to be so awed and in utter disbelief at the fact that FC rode Boonen et al off his wheel and claim that what he did was impossible need to get out on your bikes more and train with a power meter.
It's not so hard to see in full color how the race and tactics unfolded and how counterproductive some of the racing was after FC attacked. Boonen had already done a lot of work and was left to do most of the work to initially chase.
Boonen was absolutely mashing up the Muur while Fabian had a very supple and much higher spin going up. The accumulated fatigue of just the cadence difference alone over several hours can explain how one person might not be able to respond to an attack at just the crucial moment compared to another who has lower gears, especially on a very steep climb. If I recall correctly, Boonen was in his lowest gear combo on the Muur which means that FC perhaps had lower gears and had planned for just a scenario before the race knowing that what you can turn over easily after 3 hours is not what you can necessarily turn over the same after 5.5 hours.
I'm looking right now at Bjarne Riis's power file from the 1997 Amstel Gold race for reference. He attacked at 5 hrs 35 minutes into that race on a climb at 700 watts for almost 30 secs then averaged just over 400 w normalized for the next 48 minutes to ride away solo. And that's at a weight of less than 150 lbs. It's not so hard to see that someone of FC's build at almost 30 lbs heavier could sustain the power he did without the aid of an electric motor.
After watching PR and discussing it with some knowledgeable racer friends, we estimated that after his initial attack at PR, his average speed declined steadily as he neared the finish such that he probably had to average in the neighborhood of 400-430 watts at approx 30 mph for the first 15 or so minutes of his attack and then slow to around 26 mph and then only need to average in the area of 350 watts as the time gap became smaller and the finish neared. (please try to refrain from turning that info into threads and proof that FC is doping since Riis has since admitted to epo use) If, as Boonen has commented on, everyone else was content racing for second, that remark alone can reveal the level of work those in the second group were committed to and the resultant pace or lack of.
Martin Maaskant only needed to average 340 watts for the last 6 miles or so of PR a few years ago when he attacked off the front of the chasing group to take 3rd. That info is public knowledge. I don't recall anyone blasting him for a great ride or the fans of the group he dropped emerge with a conspiracy theory.
Cozy beehive has summarized very well just what power numbers might have been needed at that crucial time in PR and most will agree that the actual numbers are not out of the realm of accepted numbers, especially at the pro tour level.
Are you really going to let a video hoax turn this into a electric motor "twilight zone" gossip frenzy? Cassani must be rolling on the floor every day laughing at the grip this has had. Winners are picked on and flaws or alternate explanations surface, that's human nature. But let's get real here.
One can speculate and calculate what it would take to achieve the desired results with a hidden motor IF one were to do it and justify it all day long with numbers and diagrams. That does not make it at all probable.
Those (and there are many of you) that claim to be so awed and in utter disbelief at the fact that FC rode Boonen et al off his wheel and claim that what he did was impossible need to get out on your bikes more and train with a power meter.
It's not so hard to see in full color how the race and tactics unfolded and how counterproductive some of the racing was after FC attacked. Boonen had already done a lot of work and was left to do most of the work to initially chase.
Boonen was absolutely mashing up the Muur while Fabian had a very supple and much higher spin going up. The accumulated fatigue of just the cadence difference alone over several hours can explain how one person might not be able to respond to an attack at just the crucial moment compared to another who has lower gears, especially on a very steep climb. If I recall correctly, Boonen was in his lowest gear combo on the Muur which means that FC perhaps had lower gears and had planned for just a scenario before the race knowing that what you can turn over easily after 3 hours is not what you can necessarily turn over the same after 5.5 hours.
I'm looking right now at Bjarne Riis's power file from the 1997 Amstel Gold race for reference. He attacked at 5 hrs 35 minutes into that race on a climb at 700 watts for almost 30 secs then averaged just over 400 w normalized for the next 48 minutes to ride away solo. And that's at a weight of less than 150 lbs. It's not so hard to see that someone of FC's build at almost 30 lbs heavier could sustain the power he did without the aid of an electric motor.
After watching PR and discussing it with some knowledgeable racer friends, we estimated that after his initial attack at PR, his average speed declined steadily as he neared the finish such that he probably had to average in the neighborhood of 400-430 watts at approx 30 mph for the first 15 or so minutes of his attack and then slow to around 26 mph and then only need to average in the area of 350 watts as the time gap became smaller and the finish neared. (please try to refrain from turning that info into threads and proof that FC is doping since Riis has since admitted to epo use) If, as Boonen has commented on, everyone else was content racing for second, that remark alone can reveal the level of work those in the second group were committed to and the resultant pace or lack of.
Martin Maaskant only needed to average 340 watts for the last 6 miles or so of PR a few years ago when he attacked off the front of the chasing group to take 3rd. That info is public knowledge. I don't recall anyone blasting him for a great ride or the fans of the group he dropped emerge with a conspiracy theory.
Cozy beehive has summarized very well just what power numbers might have been needed at that crucial time in PR and most will agree that the actual numbers are not out of the realm of accepted numbers, especially at the pro tour level.
Are you really going to let a video hoax turn this into a electric motor "twilight zone" gossip frenzy? Cassani must be rolling on the floor every day laughing at the grip this has had. Winners are picked on and flaws or alternate explanations surface, that's human nature. But let's get real here.
- May 20, 2010
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Maxiton said:
Very funny. But the neighbor's kids weren't elite professional tricyclists now were they? How many times has Cancellera pulled that accelerating away from the field stunt before? Don't they know he's not coming back? Maybe now it's not indecision but inability on their part. Even when Armstrong accelerated away in his famous attacks at the Tour he was clearly digging hard -- swaying the bike, shoulders moving, etc. Or even Basso in 2006.
Cance made it look easy and that's why some are calling his performances of late into question.
Echoes said:Originally Posted by autologous View Post
another video here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T25fqnRb-mU
No longer working.
Is it possible to ask the user to re-embed it? I wanted to show it to a friend.
IT'S IMPORTANT and no one answers....!!!
Someone has downloaded this video or not???
The user who has registered the video is him : http://www.youtube.com/user/cyclinglive
But he has deleted...and it's impossible to find elsewhere!!!
I have done screenshots of this video but not download unfortunately...
- Mar 16, 2009
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- Mar 16, 2009
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chrismartinol said:
I do not believe in impossible
Bike with engine (doped bike) and Cancellara (Roubaix - Vlaanderen)
in Italian
Bici truccata e Cancellara Roubaix Fiandre
It wasn't this video!!!! I'm not stupid, thanks.
The video which was erased was a video where we saw Cancellara to change bike at the begin of Tour of Flanders (not only in the final like we watched on TV)
It was in a city with all the bunch...
It was an amateur video of a spectator.
The video which was erased was a video where we saw Cancellara to change bike at the begin of Tour of Flanders (not only in the final like we watched on TV)
It was in a city with all the bunch...
It was an amateur video of a spectator.
chrismartinol said:
It was by a crew member it seems... He was already focusing on Cance before he arrived, prepared to film the bike change. Use proper and polite (less aggressive) language and maybe forum users are more helpful?
How do you know that it was by a crew member?
It's not me who has asked the first. But since 2 days, i see no answer after Echoes says the video has disapeared...whereas it's a singular and interesting video!
So ok, my first post, i'm frontal to show good it's interesting.
My second post, i answer to a member who shows me the video we see everywhere as if it was that. Sorry but it's hilarious
It's not me who has asked the first. But since 2 days, i see no answer after Echoes says the video has disapeared...whereas it's a singular and interesting video!
So ok, my first post, i'm frontal to show good it's interesting.
My second post, i answer to a member who shows me the video we see everywhere as if it was that. Sorry but it's hilarious
chrismartinol said:How do you know that it was by a crew member?
just an assumption. it was so clear focused on Cancellara and waiting for it, and the guy was outside the barricades/security? but I might be wrong, just a guess. can't find it however anymore
THANKS A LOT!!!
And very interesting in more your link under the video (if it's you of course ;p)
Ah, i see you try to defend Cancellara...
And very interesting in more your link under the video (if it's you of course ;p)
Ah, i see you try to defend Cancellara...
http://www.youtube.com/user/YourTubeMyTubeOurTbs#p/a/u/1/pu88AdxIyPo
Why is there 6:22:03 on the machine/apparatus which is on the bike? It's fixed on the bike!
And just before 30" on the video, the guy says good 6 hours 22...
Whereas he has changed bike 2 times during Tour of Flanders....it's impossible...or he had time to remove on the first bike and to put on the second bike
Why is there 6:22:03 on the machine/apparatus which is on the bike? It's fixed on the bike!
And just before 30" on the video, the guy says good 6 hours 22...
Whereas he has changed bike 2 times during Tour of Flanders....it's impossible...or he had time to remove on the first bike and to put on the second bike
- Mar 11, 2009
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Wheels Go Round and Round said:well............if Fabian was stupid enough to order it himself or someone closely related to him........that would go down as one of the dumbest ever
Yes, that would almost trump Evander Holyfield buying 'roids online under the name "Evan Fields".
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