The doped bike exists (video of pro version)!

[blackcat]

Re:

Rcent pics of Cipo indicate he's a fan of steroid use still...

manifest priapus de circumcision
la Bienalle de Venezia conceptual art installation "Re: Lione"

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm hazarding a guess that that's below 8% bodyfat. #notnormal

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

did you ever hear a conspiracy theory you didn't believe in?

hitch with his conspiracy strawman.
Stop making it about me. Why not watch it and comment on it yourself. Seems any suggestion, claim, or bit of speculation that Hitch doesn't believe to be true automatically is a conspiracy theory. Lame.

as for Cancellara, I think he was using some kind of a motor. It's the most plausible explanation of what I see in that footage.
Now go ask Boogerd, Rasmussen and the makers of that television program why they think it was a motor.

Your the one making it personal, suggesting I'm making it about you. I'm not. You made a post saying that Rasmussen and boogerd weren't upset with Cancellara motor cheating, as if that were some sort of a fact.

I don't remember seeing anyone take that video seriously. It was full of holes and made no sense in so far as if you were going to use motor doping you would use it early in the race to save energy not wait till the final 200m on the final climb of cobbles.

It's far far more likely that Cancellara simply doped massively to win those races, as he had doped to win races in the past before said technology was allegedly available, and after when the uci began testing for motors. He won the double again in 2013 ffs and was dominant in 2011.

***EDITED OUT BY MOD***

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sounds pretty personal to me.

You do tend to have conversations with people in-thread, and make me wonder why you don't take it to a PM, given you're excluding every other contributor in the thread through the wording you use. Unless of course your goal - conscious or not - is to take the person down a notch, in which case a PM would be ineffective as you don't have an audience to play to.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Your the one making it personal, suggesting I'm making it about you. I'm not. You made a post saying that Rasmussen and boogerd weren't upset with Cancellara motor cheating, as if that were some sort of a fact.

I don't remember seeing anyone take that video seriously. It was full of holes and made no sense in so far as if you were going to use motor doping you would use it early in the race to save energy not wait till the final 200m on the final climb of cobbles.

It's far far more likely that Cancellara simply doped massively to win those races, as he had doped to win races in the past before said technology was allegedly available, and after when the uci began testing for motors. He won the double again in 2013 ffs and was dominant in 2011.

*** edited by mod***

you don't think there's something derogatory about the term 'conspiracy theory' when it is applied to normal topics of discussion? In any case calling something a 'conspiracy' is hardly an argument, so if it wasn't personal, I don't what it is.
With particular regard to Cancellara, admittedly I'm pretty close to actually 'believing' he was motorized, but only two pages back I'm also on the record stating I didn't find Contador's bike changes suspicious.
Point is I'm not quite sure how you justify making such generalizations wrt my posting history, unless you cherry pick. My posting history will show I'm not quick in dismissing speculation as nonsense.

***edited out***

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Rcent pics of Cipo indicate he's a fan of steroid use still...

manifest priapus de circumcision
la Bianalle de Venezia conceptual art installation "Re: Lione"

 

[Eshnar]

And to think that people complain when I delete their crap. This time I started editing out but then I saw even more posts. I have no intention to spend a hour for that.

Stop it.

@Sniper If you don't like a post, don't *** quote it.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re: Re:

Rcent pics of Cipo indicate he's a fan of steroid use still...

manifest priapus de circumcision
la Bianalle de Venezia conceptual art installation "Re: Lione"

That looks like a member of the Village People.

 

[ray j willings]

He looks like Dr Cox from scrubs

 

[The Hitch]

So sniper. What exactly is it that makes you so convinced that Canc used a motor in RVV and PR despite the fact that on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up?

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

So sniper. What exactly is it that makes you so convinced that Canc used a motor in RVV and PR despite the fact that on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE

This is evidence which is equal to any evidence you have posted about doping.

look at the PR acceleration that is not normal.
And if you ride a bike " I have no idea if you do or sit on the sofa all day" then you would realise that acceleration + cadence and gear choice does not look real.
Plus he had strange buttons on his bars. No electric shifting being used then. What are the buttons for?
Very dodgy and since the UCI started Checking bikes he has never shown that sort of form.

 

[Master50]

Unless you watched the video with the sound off it makes a noise like a motor with a gear. Hide that.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

So sniper. What exactly is it that makes you so convinced that Canc used a motor in RVV and PR despite the fact that on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE

This is evidence which is equal to any evidence you have posted about doping.

look at the PR acceleration that is not normal.
And if you ride a bike " I have no idea if you do or sit on the sofa all day" then you would realise that acceleration + cadence and gear choice does not look real.
Plus he had strange buttons on his bars. No electric shifting being used then. What are the buttons for?
Very dodgy and since the UCI started Checking bikes he has never shown that sort of form.

this indeed. good summary.
additionally suspect was the fact that (and I'm quoting from below this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs youtube clip)
"During the Tour of Flanders 2010, Fabian Cancellara changed bikes twice. The first bike change took place around Mater, as was seen on TV. The second change never made the TV broadcast, but was captured by fans on camera. It's assumed Cancellara got his original bicycle back."

All that aint proof, but they are arguments/pieces of evidence that need to be addressed by those arguing in the other direction. You cannot just state "on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up" without addressing those issues.

 

[veganrob]

What Secret Pro has to say about it

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/05/the-secret-pro-aru-vs-henderson-the-giro-and-more/

Anybody thinks it can't be done is living in the stone age

 

[del1962]

Re:

It would be interesting to allow motors, but set a maximum bike weight of 5kg. That would ask for some serious innovative development, and hard pedaling.

You going to handicap for rider's weights though

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

So sniper. What exactly is it that makes you so convinced that Canc used a motor in RVV and PR despite the fact that on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE

This is evidence which is equal to any evidence you have posted about doping.

look at the PR acceleration that is not normal.
And if you ride a bike " I have no idea if you do or sit on the sofa all day" then you would realise that acceleration + cadence and gear choice does not look real.
Plus he had strange buttons on his bars. No electric shifting being used then. What are the buttons for?
Very dodgy and since the UCI started Checking bikes he has never shown that sort of form.

this indeed. good summary.
additionally suspect was the fact that (and I'm quoting from below this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs youtube clip)
"During the Tour of Flanders 2010, Fabian Cancellara changed bikes twice. The first bike change took place around Mater, as was seen on TV. The second change never made the TV broadcast, but was captured by fans on camera. It's assumed Cancellara got his original bicycle back."

All that aint proof, but they are arguments/pieces of evidence that need to be addressed by those arguing in the other direction. You cannot just state "on no level does the theory make absolutely any sense and there is no evidence to back it up" without addressing those issues.

What issues? That he changed bikes. Seriously? Like that doesn't happen all the time.

The other one. That his attack was strong? Why would a motor be a better explanation than plain old doping? ( which all the evidence suggests he was doing). So contador verbier 8 months earlier was a motor then and not doping? Cos that was more impressive. Actually there were a lot of full *** performances around that time. We're they all down to motors or just Cancellara?

Actually you can take the argument further because the 2010 and 2011 tours were significantly slower than 2009 so maybe it wasn't doping that took a hit but the motors.

Ray of course isn't serious, I don't think because he says canc was never that good again, which isnt true because later that year AFTER they introduced bike scanning canc for the only time in his career won both tdf tts. The next year he was just as strong in the classics losing purely due to tactics but he did a 40k break in rvv.

Another thing I dont get is what the 10 s motor burst did for him in Pr. The real impressive thing about his performance was that he did a 50k solo, not that he dropped leukmans.

 

[sniper]

hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.

 

[Cloxxki]

Re: Re:

It would be interesting to allow motors, but set a maximum bike weight of 5kg. That would ask for some serious innovative development, and hard pedaling.

You going to handicap for rider's weights though

Darn, you're right.
The non-motorized max weight for a bike currently in place is an advantage to bigger riders, but more minute.

Bike weight should then come from a formula, based on the J/kg the systems could realistically bring. Complex...

 

[D-Queued]

What Secret Pro has to say about it

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/05/the-secret-pro-aru-vs-henderson-the-giro-and-more/

Anybody thinks it can't be done is living in the stone age

Yup, I see what you have there.

"...We’ve even seen mechanics from certain teams behaving oddly at races in the past, standing at the side of the course with spare bikes when usually those bikes would just be placed on the car. And when those mechanics are left at the side of the road with bikes after they’ve changed, well, that’s the sort of odd stuff you wouldn’t usually see. ..."

Mechanics standing by the side of the road.

Mechanics, often strange dudes to start with and who tend to get little rest during a big race and may even experience a tad of anxiety given all the pressure they face at those big moments, behaving oddly.

"Behaving oddly". Wow, just wow.

Like wondering where the heck the rider is? Or, the other riders? Or, whether someone is watching their tools, spare parts, and all of the other bikes? Or, maybe just wondering when they can pack up and move to the next hotel.

But, that's it. Behaving oddly.

Crystal clear.

Definitive

Compelling.

Clinching.

And, as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Dave.

 

[veganrob]

What Secret Pro has to say about it

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/05/the-secret-pro-aru-vs-henderson-the-giro-and-more/

Anybody thinks it can't be done is living in the stone age

Yup, I see what you have there.

"...We’ve even seen mechanics from certain teams behaving oddly at races in the past, standing at the side of the course with spare bikes when usually those bikes would just be placed on the car. And when those mechanics are left at the side of the road with bikes after they’ve changed, well, that’s the sort of odd stuff you wouldn’t usually see. ..."

Mechanics standing by the side of the road.

Mechanics, often strange dudes to start with and who tend to get little rest during a big race and may even experience a tad of anxiety given all the pressure they face at those big moments, behaving oddly.

"Behaving oddly". Wow, just wow.

Like wondering where the heck the rider is? Or, the other riders? Or, whether someone is watching their tools, spare parts, and all of the other bikes? Or, maybe just wondering when they can pack up and move to the next hotel.

But, that's it. Behaving oddly.

Crystal clear.

Definitive

Compelling.

Clinching.

And, as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Dave.

.............

 

[ray j willings]

Re:

hitch. why do you think that bikeswitch footage was posted on youtube? not because it wasn't awkward.
read the secret pro on the matter and get back to me on that (in the link veganrob just posted)
and if the bikeswitch happened in isolation, no problem, but it didn't.
It's the combination of things that happened during that race that makes (imo) a good the case for motorization, not each thing in isolation.
so what's your view on Canc's button clicking? it's pretty clearly visible especially in RvV footage, exactly before he jumps away in alien fashion. You've ignored it thus far.

Of Course Hitch will ignore it, Its evidence that goes against his view.
Another point for Hitch to ponder. Since When has Fab accelerated like that and rode everyone off his wheel since the UCI started checking bikes. He hasn't because he can't.
He keeps complaining about how he's heavily marked. If he could go that fast again it would not matter. no one could catch him.

 

[blackcat]

But, that's it. Behaving oddly.

Crystal clear.

Definitive

Compelling.

Clinching.

And, as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Dave.

yes no Dave.

It is the Skil or Argon rider with the Australian fiance innit? The Dutch rider, is the secret pro.

ok, my take on this.

Could be Wade or the editor of CyclingTips asked him to give us something, we need clickbait, we need hits.
chance this being the case? I think material chance, he was prompted by the editor or Wade.

However, devil's advocate would be, this had gone thru the peloton (THE DISCUSSION), they wont even need pillowtalk, the peloton talks when on asphalt hot pour tarmac and lime, and at a coffee rendevous. They talk!

So this has passed thru the informal arbiter and consensus impimatur. Usually one would hear some platitude of denial and indignance. But, we could read into said denial, different motives, just like we could read into the "motor subject invocation" with alternate motivation. We can't know where the motive lies.

But I think this has a degree of validity, but I am just not sure how much validity I should put in his CT piece.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The non-motorized max weight for a bike currently in place is an advantage to bigger riders, but more minute.

Bike weight should then come from a formula, based on the J/kg the systems could realistically bring. Complex...

not necessarily.

Boardman said the extra 1kg of bike weight even when passing multiple mtn, not material, because you need weight and stability to descend. You cant descend at 90mph on a flyweight 5kg bike. that is just stupid.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

But you're not. You're descending on a 70-80 kg system. As long as the tyre pressure and wheel rigidity is set up right, and the frame is stiff enough yet veritcally compliant (nah just kidding) you are descending at 80kg, no 5kg.

 

[Cloxxki]

Indeed.
A 4kg bike can be pretty rideable. Just add really heavy rims and you'll have a nice and stable bike under you, even when you're out of the saddle.
And no, heavy rims don't make for slow riding. Not even noticeably slower acceleration, although your legs will send all kind of alarm signals to the brain.