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The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

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Re:

RedheadDane said:
Now he's gotten a ban, and when that is done he should be able to return with a clean slate*, just like everybody else returning from a ban, no matter why they got it.

*Not clean slate in the sense that we should pretend it never happened, but clean slate in the sense that it's a thing of the past, which won't define him for the rest of his career.
I can think of several clinic guys who wished this had been the case for them :p
RedheadDane said:
We know that UCI has launched an investigation to the case.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-launches-investigation-into-team-sky-and-moscon-after-racial-abuse-of-reza-at-romandie/

Maybe Sky just knew that UCI isn't exactly known for being quick when it comes to these matters - just look at how long it took before Grivko got a punishment for his Kittel-punch during Dubai - so decided to punish him on their own immediatly (sp?).
UCI will probably hand out a verdict some time in September...

Yeah, it's a little awkward for the UCI that Sky has already announced its own punishment but I guess they'll have their own official word at some point. I've been mostly ok with how Sky has handled it but you do have to wonder if they went ahead and announced their punishment because he was due for a break and they knew waiting for the UCI would likely result in a ban during an important period or if it was because they felt it was the right thing to do for their team. I'll go ahead and give them credit for the latter.
 
Yeah, most posters here seem to believe racism is dealt with equally in every western country, but it's not true.
I've barely ever heard talking about the issue in my years at school for instance. The situation is gradually changing since children meet people coming from different countries much more often nowadays, but it's still mostly up to the family to properly educate kids on this matter.
 
Re:

RedheadDane said:
Even when it (education) fails, you just gotta keep going.
Punish the offenders and then: Educate. Educate. Educate. No point in not educating about it simply because some people don't get it; some people don't get Math...
And some people spend a lot of time not getting Math, but eventually they do.

I must respectfully disagree - People bang on about more education because 'it's the right thing to do' or because it makes 'people feel good' - Think society needs to be better.
 
Re:

deValtos said:
Nothing gets me more annoyed when people argue against education. The progress society has made on social issues has been astounding since even I've been born. Sure it's not perfect (what is?), it fails some times, but you can't draw a line at a point and stop offering productive opportunities to learn.

I hope one day people will realize punishment is not a useful tool as education.

We are talking about a 23 year old man who has been educated about racism and the like for around 20 years of his life - There is nothing wrong with self-education.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
RedheadDane said:
Even when it (education) fails, you just gotta keep going.
Punish the offenders and then: Educate. Educate. Educate. No point in not educating about it simply because some people don't get it; some people don't get Math...
And some people spend a lot of time not getting Math, but eventually they do.

I must respectfully disagree - People bang on about more education because 'it's the right thing to do' or because it makes 'people feel good' - Think society needs to be better.

How is society ever gonna get better if we don't educate people? Even if some people never get it, wouldn't saying that we then shouldn't educate anybody be the same as simply giving up? Sure, some times it might seem like an uphill struggle, but that doesn't mean we should just stop. Some times you gotta keep going, no matter how pointless it feels. Sometimes education decidedly makes people not feel going; nothing worse than being forced to realise and accept your prejudices, and thus being forced to change.
Besides, how do you know that Moscon has been educated about these things for around 20 years (since he was three, which - to me - seems a bit early to begin formal education)? According to SafeBet - an Italian, so I'd assume he knows something about the matter - the issue isn't really talked about that much in Italy.
 
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Re:

del1962 said:
For those that say other sports like football deal with this stuff better think again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39792319

But some do: earlier this week.Rugby League Justin Carney..8 game ban and fine.

“Whilst Justin has admitted using the offending words in an abusive manner, he did not intend his words to be taken in a ‘racial’ context. Justin is an indigenous Australian and is proud of his Aboriginal heritage. He stands firm on the position that he is not nor has he ever been a racist.
“He is grateful that, having received several letters of support from within the RFL community both here and in Australia, the Tribunal today has accepted that he is not a racist. He is also grateful for the courtesy and fairness shown to him during the hearing today.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4467574/Salford-s-Justin-Carney-handed-eight-match-ban-racial-abuse-opponent.html#ixzz4g8YLfFvt

A game based ban is more significant than a time ban during which someone may not be competing.
 
Re: Re:

RedheadDane said:
yaco said:
RedheadDane said:
Even when it (education) fails, you just gotta keep going.
Punish the offenders and then: Educate. Educate. Educate. No point in not educating about it simply because some people don't get it; some people don't get Math...
And some people spend a lot of time not getting Math, but eventually they do.

I must respectfully disagree - People bang on about more education because 'it's the right thing to do' or because it makes 'people feel good' - Think society needs to be better.

How is society ever gonna get better if we don't educate people? Even if some people never get it, wouldn't saying that we then shouldn't educate anybody be the same as simply giving up? Sure, some times it might seem like an uphill struggle, but that doesn't mean we should just stop. Some times you gotta keep going, no matter how pointless it feels. Sometimes education decidedly makes people not feel going; nothing worse than being forced to realise and accept your prejudices, and thus being forced to change.
Besides, how do you know that Moscon has been educated about these things for around 20 years (since he was three, which - to me - seems a bit early to begin formal education)? According to SafeBet - an Italian, so I'd assume he knows something about the matter - the issue isn't really talked about that much in Italy.

People/children are educated from kindergarten - Some will ' never get it' or choose 'not to get it.' Because the issue may not be widely covered in the media, doesn't mean the institutions of society fail to educate children on racial and similar issues - There is no cause and effect relationship between the two issues - Sky says Moscon will receive education in diversity - It's possible he will receive no education, but it's said for good public relations - Sky state that if Moscon transgresses again he will lose his contract - I guarantee there will be 17 WT teams clamoring for his signature.
 
People/children are educated from kindergarten - Some will ' never get it' or choose 'not to get it.'

Again, how do you know that's the case in Italy? SafeBet sure seemed to indicate that it isn't. I'm just gonna take his words in the matter.
True, some people may never get it - either willfully or due to ignorance - but does that mean we should take everybody's chance of bettering themselves away?
 
Not sure who's post to respond to, so I'll simply say education starts at home. Living in Scotland, where racism isn't rife but sectarianism certainly is in certain parts, I'd couple that with education, education, education. Kids are not born racists or bigots.
 
Yes, the problem it's at home, if parents and/or relatives are racists the children are likely to become racists too and in Italy it's full of racists, the "italiano medio" it's a very intolerant person (not only for racist matters).

In the last days i've read a lot of comments on articles about this situation on Italian websites and Facebook pages of the websites and it's a rarity to find someone that criticize Moscon, for italians he's a victim and they defend him accusing and even insulting Reza and that's happened only because Reza is black and for them it's normal to racially abuse.
 
Really the attitude I hate most. An upper-class person clashing his own fellow country(wo)men, lower social classes "Italiano medio", labelling them "racist". It's a powerful weapon to humiliate the poor. It surely is what is distancing me from the Left everyday even more.
 
Echoes said:
Really the attitude I hate most. An upper-class person clashing his own fellow country(wo)men, lower social classes "Italiano medio", labelling them "racist". It's a powerful weapon to humiliate the poor. It surely is what is distancing me from the Left everyday even more.
Everyday i hear people using phrases that are racist, i see their attitude towards africans, asians, arabs, etc...
I can't deny that only to be politically correct, there is a serious problem in Italy and politics instead of try to find a solution use this to grab votes with the hate and only make things that can worsen the situation.
 
update:

Moscon moves on after racism ban: 'My conscience is clear, I accepted the punishment'



[...]

Speaking to La Gazzetta dello Sport after his performance in the Pyrenees, Moscon insisted his conscience is clear, hinting that not all the accusations surrounding the case were true.

“I don’t have much to say. My conscience is clear, I accepted the punishment, I took my break,” he said.

Asked if he had any regrets about what happened, Moscon said: “I didn’t kill anyone and the accusations are not completely founded. But I’d prefer to not talk about it anymore.”

Moscon pushed back on the idea that the incident could have damaged his profile as a talented young rider, claiming he had a lot of support in the peloton.

“I’ve always had a lot of support from my colleagues; they knew it was something ridiculous. A lot of people cheered for me during the race,” he explained.

“I don’t think I need to rebuild my image. The people who support me have understood, those that don’t have used it to attack me.” [...]

“I stayed at home in Livo with my family. A few times I also went to my parent’s farm. All in all, it wasn’t bad,” Moscon said of his suspension. [...]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/moscon-moves-on-after-racism-ban-my-conscience-is-clear-i-accepted-the-punishment/
 
Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
There's a certain adolescent petulance to those comments. I'm not surprised by his view but I am a bit surprised that some Sky PR person didn't tell him to either display regret or, if he can't do that convincingly, shut his cake hole.

He seems to imply that the whole story of the interaction between Reza and himself has yet to be told but he, for whatever reason, has declined to share it. He is in a state of denial of any wrongdoing on his part, IMO. It appears the apology was for the sake of saving his reputation, not as a result of any regret or remorse.
 
Re:

jmdirt said:
What he did was wrong. He had a consequence. Move on.

Hopefully when we read/hear about him in the future its not referred to: "Moscan, who once used racist language is leading the break". I dislike that all too common type of commentating.

I think you are creating potential drama when there is none. I really doubt that 95% of the commentators will be bringing this incident up and those that do are simply challenged in terms of their ability to fill in dead air.
 
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He'll race the NC RR as the leader of Team Sky, Viviani, Puccio and Rosa will be working for him.
After that it's Donostia, Vueta a Burgos, the Vuelta and then the WC if his form is good after the Vuelta.