The Gianni Moscon Bandwagon Jumping Thread

[Echoes]

He's reacted with dignity, there. He could have revolted against the punishment but says he accepts it (I know, it was a rest period anyway, etc). He could have tried to give further explanations to "save his reputation" but chose to stop talking about it... Everything had already been said, he had already properly apologised (on his own accord, not at PR's request! and while it was still unknown to the media). There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life. I honestly thought that that article would have won back respect of some posters here but apparently not. The case is closed. Believe what you want to.

 

[Angliru]

He's reacted with dignity, there. He could have revolted against the punishment but says he accepts it (I know, it was a rest period anyway, etc). He could have tried to give further explanations to "save his reputation" but chose to stop talking about it... Everything had already been said, he had already properly apologised (on his own accord, not at PR's request! and while it was still unknown to the media). There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life. I honestly thought that that article would have won back respect of some posters here but apparently not. The case is closed. Believe what you want to.

He states that or implies that the whole story hasn't been told. If that is the case what prevented him from giving his version of the events since it seems that he believes that his punishment may have been unjust OR that the picture that is being painted of him by the media isn't fair or accurate. The fact that he feels the need to state that all of the facts haven't been presented gives me the impression that somewhere deep down he feels that his actions were justified but he's simply being courageous and taking one for the team. If he just wanted to move on he wouldn't be leaving all of this open to the public's imagination.

 

[Ramon Koran]

He's reacted with dignity, there. He could have revolted against the punishment but says he accepts it (I know, it was a rest period anyway, etc). He could have tried to give further explanations to "save his reputation" but chose to stop talking about it... Everything had already been said, he had already properly apologised (on his own accord, not at PR's request! and while it was still unknown to the media). There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life. I honestly thought that that article would have won back respect of some posters here but apparently not. The case is closed. Believe what you want to.

He states that or implies that the whole story hasn't been told. If that is the case what prevented him from giving his version of the events since it seems that he believes that his punishment may have been unjust OR that the picture that is being painted of him by the media isn't fair or accurate. The fact that he feels the need to state that all of the facts haven't been presented gives me the impression that somewhere deep down he feels that his actions were justified but he's simply being courageous and taking one for the team. If he just wanted to move on he wouldn't be leaving all of this open to the public's imagination.

Cases like these are super complicated to deal with. We would need to know what conversation led to Moscon throwing racial abuse at Reza. I don't believe he just went up to him and insulted him, his behavior seems to indicate something happened beforehand which caused him to snap. It's of course a shame and we'll probably never know but he's had the punishment and I doubt he would risk doing it again so that's the positive of this. For me the case is closed now and this shouldn't follow him throughout his career, he might be racist or might not but as long as he doesn't go around racially abusing people I couldn't care less I'll just admire the rider not the person.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

He's reacted with dignity, there. He could have revolted against the punishment but says he accepts it (I know, it was a rest period anyway, etc). He could have tried to give further explanations to "save his reputation" but chose to stop talking about it... Everything had already been said, he had already properly apologised (on his own accord, not at PR's request! and while it was still unknown to the media). There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life. I honestly thought that that article would have won back respect of some posters here but apparently not. The case is closed. Believe what you want to.

You seem oddly emotionally invested in the idea that people should be allowed to racially abuse colleagues at work without suffering prolonged damage to their reputation.

I'm not of the view that someone who does something racist or otherwise deeply obnoxious should be ostracised for life. People do change. But they can't expect to get credit for learning a lesson while continuing to imply that they were hard done by and had no lesson to learn.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

What he did was wrong. He had a consequence. Move on.

Hopefully when we read/hear about him in the future its not referred to: "Moscan, who once used racist language is leading the break". I dislike that all too common type of commentating.

I think you are creating potential drama when there is none. I really doubt that 95% of the commentators will be bringing this incident up and those that do are simply challenged in terms of their ability to fill in dead air.

No, what I'm doing is pointing out SOP for most journalists/commentators.

 

[jaylew]

There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life.

Well that's good since he couldn't even do it for a few months.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

What he did was wrong.

Moscon seems to disagree.

Really? He accepted his punishment, surely that's a sign that he accepts - and understands - that what he did was wrong.
All he's saying is that he didn't kill anyone. Which, to be fair, he didn't.

As far as I'm concerned this case was settled the instant he - instantly afterwards - apologised to Reza, and Reza accepted the apology.

 

[IndianCyclist]

He's reacted with dignity, there. He could have revolted against the punishment but says he accepts it (I know, it was a rest period anyway, etc). He could have tried to give further explanations to "save his reputation" but chose to stop talking about it... Everything had already been said, he had already properly apologised (on his own accord, not at PR's request! and while it was still unknown to the media). There's no need for penitence. He cannot be requested to express regrets for the rest of his life. I honestly thought that that article would have won back respect of some posters here but apparently not. The case is closed. Believe what you want to.

He states that or implies that the whole story hasn't been told. If that is the case what prevented him from giving his version of the events since it seems that he believes that his punishment may have been unjust OR that the picture that is being painted of him by the media isn't fair or accurate. The fact that he feels the need to state that all of the facts haven't been presented gives me the impression that somewhere deep down he feels that his actions were justified but he's simply being courageous and taking one for the team. If he just wanted to move on he wouldn't be leaving all of this open to the public's imagination.

Agree. Portal at that time called it "unacceptable". i presume at the internal hearing he would have presented all the true facts and his side of the story. Yet his team saw fit to punish him.Why? For appearing to be enforcing the rules? Where is the support for him form his own teammates. Viviani? Retaliation is understood and happened a number of times in the heat of the moment in the recent giro as well. But doing it racially is a strict no-no. I donot think he understands what he did or is repenting in any way but he will be careful in future. A leopard doesn't change its spots.

 

[Ricco']

I'm curious to know the whole story, if what Moscon says it's true and there's more to it than was known.

I'm not trying to defend any racist attitudes but it's not the first time that Reza is implicated in something like this, maybe he isn't the most respectful rider too. And anger may lead to some racial comments about colored people, unfortunately it's part of the human nature of some people.

After all, I don't see any racist comments (at least noticed on the press) against for example Debesay, Berhane, Teklehaimanot, Niyonshuti, etc. And Reza has been implicated for 2 or 3 times.

But the Moscon attitude is condemnable, of course.

EDIT: I noticed now that Berhane has been racially abused too by Samoilau in 2015 Tour of Austria.

 

[Brullnux]

It's partly because Reza is a sprinter and gets caught in the heat of the moment more. Or it could also be that all of them are racially abused at times, but Reza is much more prepared to go public about it and speak out. After all, being French and not Eritrean, he is probably more used to racist comments and is able to deal with them more effectively. This is all supposition, though.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

What he did was wrong.

Moscon seems to disagree.

Really? He accepted his punishment, surely that's a sign that he accepts - and understands - that what he did was wrong.
All he's saying is that he didn't kill anyone. Which, to be fair, he didn't.

As far as I'm concerned this case was settled the instant he - instantly afterwards - apologised to Reza, and Reza accepted the apology.

That's hogwash. Surely the fact that he says the whole thing was ridiculous and undeserved is a sign that he doesn't accept ****-all. He's not merely saying he didn't kill anyone. No one accused him of killing anyone, and that expression has a very clear implicit meaning: "Whatever I did, it wasn't a big deal and I shouldn't have been punished".

His apology is absolutely worthless after what he's said.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

What he did was wrong.

Moscon seems to disagree.

Really? He accepted his punishment, surely that's a sign that he accepts - and understands - that what he did was wrong.
All he's saying is that he didn't kill anyone. Which, to be fair, he didn't.

As far as I'm concerned this case was settled the instant he - instantly afterwards - apologised to Reza, and Reza accepted the apology.

That's hogwash. Surely the fact that he says the whole thing was ridiculous and undeserved is a sign that he doesn't accept ****-all. He's not merely saying he didn't kill anyone. No one accused him of killing anyone, and that expression has a very clear implicit meaning: "Whatever I did, it wasn't a big deal and I shouldn't have been punished".

His apology is absolutely worthless after what he's said.

God, can you give it a rest already? :sad:

 

[hrotha]

Screw that, Moscon talked BS about this just the other day and people are actually defending him. If you aren't also asking RedheadDane or the other folks to give the whole defending Moscon thing a rest, maybe you should get your priorities sorted.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Im not defending him, I really just think this is over the top.

 

[hrotha]

What, saying that he isn't sorry? That's not over the top, that's the most obvious reading of what he said.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Working from a translation is never ideal but certainly from the CN article it would appear that he’s in no way remorseful but rather it’s been an inconvenience to him, he feels unfairly treated by some but perhaps he was not permitted to fully defend himself.

He offers nothing in that interview in a way of an apology to either Reza or for his own actions but rather he feels no further responsibility for what happened.

 

[RedheadDane]

Is it possible that Moscon might understand that what he did was wrong, but not how wrong? Which - reasonable - might cause him to think the punishment was too severe.
Perhaps he understands that (verbally) abusing Reza was wrong, but not that he crossed a line when he went for Reza's skin colour in the argument. As far as he's concerned what he said might be similar to if he'd referred to the fact that Reza is French, or - if it was part of a Team vs. Team argument - the fact that Reza is on FDJ.
In fact, it's entirely possible that he has overheard/witnessed several other arguments that didn't cause the same reactions, and - honestly - doesn't understand why it was only what he said that was punished.

He's not merely saying he didn't kill anyone. No one accused him of killing anyone, and that expression has a very clear implicit meaning: "Whatever I did, it wasn't a big deal and I shouldn't have been punished".

Does (Italian) Moscon know that implicit meaning?

He offers nothing in that interview in a way of an apology to either Reza or for his own actions but rather he feels no further responsibility for what happened.

He already apologised to Reza; right when it happened! Or is he supposed to apologise to Reza every time he says something?
Besides, isn't it possible that the reason he's declining to say any more is because he feels like he's already said what needed to be said, and now it's Reza's turn to have his side of the story heard?

 

[pastronef]

Re:

What he did was wrong. He had a consequence. Move on.

Hopefully when we read/hear about him in the future its not referred to: "Moscon, who once used racist language is leading the break". I dislike that all too common type of commentating.

I think we´ll hear that, on here and twitter, for a long time.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

What he did was wrong. He had a consequence. Move on.

Hopefully when we read/hear about him in the future its not referred to: "Moscon, who once used racist language is leading the break". I dislike that all too common type of commentating.

I think we´ll hear that, on here and twitter, for a long time.

I think that some of you are trying make some type of cycling internet martyr of Moscon, which is quite baffling.
He minimizes his actions by saying that "it's not like he killed someone". He needs to mature, and if he hasn't had his obligatory session in what is and what is not proper social behavior, it couldn't happen too soon. He's seems pretty clueless in respects to that.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Is it possible that Moscon might understand that what he did was wrong, but not how wrong? Which - reasonable - might cause him to think the punishment was too severe.
Perhaps he understands that (verbally) abusing Reza was wrong, but not that he crossed a line when he went for Reza's skin colour in the argument. As far as he's concerned what he said might be similar to if he'd referred to the fact that Reza is French, or - if it was part of a Team vs. Team argument - the fact that Reza is on FDJ.
In fact, it's entirely possible that he has overheard/witnessed several other arguments that didn't cause the same reactions, and - honestly - doesn't understand why it was only what he said that was punished.

He's not merely saying he didn't kill anyone. No one accused him of killing anyone, and that expression has a very clear implicit meaning: "Whatever I did, it wasn't a big deal and I shouldn't have been punished".

Does (Italian) Moscon know that implicit meaning?

He offers nothing in that interview in a way of an apology to either Reza or for his own actions but rather he feels no further responsibility for what happened.

He already apologised to Reza; right when it happened! Or is he supposed to apologise to Reza every time he says something?
Besides, isn't it possible that the reason he's declining to say any more is because he feels like he's already said what needed to be said, and now it's Reza's turn to have his side of the story heard?

Wow, that's a lot of rationalizing by you on his behalf - I see a bunch of hopeful assumptions there.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re:

He offers nothing in that interview in a way of an apology to either Reza or for his own actions but rather he feels no further responsibility for what happened.

He already apologised to Reza; right when it happened! Or is he supposed to apologise to Reza every time he says something?
Besides, isn't it possible that the reason he's declining to say any more is because he feels like he's already said what needed to be said, and now it's Reza's turn to have his side of the story heard?

Every time he says something? that would be ridiculous, every time he talks about this incident where he was guilty then yes, that would be prudent.

If Moscon had replied “I apologised to Reza and feel that now we should move forward” or “the incident is behind me and I wish to focus on the future” then who would care, but what he actually said was to the effect of “the accusations were absurd and I have nothing to feel guilty of” which is more a show of no remorse and lack of accountability.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Is it possible that Moscon might understand that what he did was wrong, but not how wrong? Which - reasonable - might cause him to think the punishment was too severe.
Perhaps he understands that (verbally) abusing Reza was wrong, but not that he crossed a line when he went for Reza's skin colour in the argument. As far as he's concerned what he said might be similar to if he'd referred to the fact that Reza is French, or - if it was part of a Team vs. Team argument - the fact that Reza is on FDJ.
In fact, it's entirely possible that he has overheard/witnessed several other arguments that didn't cause the same reactions, and - honestly - doesn't understand why it was only what he said that was punished.

He's not merely saying he didn't kill anyone. No one accused him of killing anyone, and that expression has a very clear implicit meaning: "Whatever I did, it wasn't a big deal and I shouldn't have been punished".

Does (Italian) Moscon know that implicit meaning?

He offers nothing in that interview in a way of an apology to either Reza or for his own actions but rather he feels no further responsibility for what happened.

He already apologised to Reza; right when it happened! Or is he supposed to apologise to Reza every time he says something?
Besides, isn't it possible that the reason he's declining to say any more is because he feels like he's already said what needed to be said, and now it's Reza's turn to have his side of the story heard?

Wow, that's a lot of rationalizing by you on his behalf - I see a bunch of hopeful assumptions there.

And you - and others - are assuming that he was 100% aware of how wrong what he did was, and just doesn't care. I'm not saying that was he did wasn't wrong, simply that it's entirely possible that he honestly doesn't understand how wrong it was, which might cause him to think the accusations were absurd.
There are two important things we need to take into consideration here:

1: Moscon might honestly not have understood how bad what he said was, and simply consider it "just another argument." Who knows what gets said in the intense moments when the tempers flare?

2: Moscon isn't a native English speaker, so when he says something there's a distinct possibility that:
- a: He says something he doesn't actually mean, because he's speaking in a foreign language.
- b: He says something in Italian, which then gets faultily translated.

Every time he says something? that would be ridiculous, every time he talks about this incident where he was guilty then yes, that would be prudent.

Why? One apology - face-to-face - which gets accepted, and without all the (social) media bull-*** should be enough. What exactly would Reza gain from Moscon stating in some random Italian newspaper that he's sorry for the incident? Moscon already said sorry to the only person - other than himself - who matters in this whole thing: Reza.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

Re: Re:

Every time he says something? that would be ridiculous, every time he talks about this incident where he was guilty then yes, that would be prudent.

Why? One apology - face-to-face - which gets accepted, and without all the (social) media bull-*** should be enough. What exactly would Reza gain from Moscon stating in some random Italian newspaper that he's sorry for the incident? Moscon already said sorry to the only person - other than himself - who matters in this whole thing: Reza.

But this isn’t just about Reza now though, this wasn’t a personal insult but one about race, it’s about Moscon demonstrating that he accepts and understands why he was wrong, about trying to show that he isn’t a racist, isn’t a bigot, and you have to question what worth his initial perfunctory apology has now that he labels it all as ridiculous?

 

[yaco]

Yet another thread hijacked by the group 'Who want to be offended or Who want to be angry.' The situation has been resolved - Appropriate action has been taken and apologies provided and accepted.

 

[hrotha]

Are you really that blind. Jesus Christ.