Re: Re:
People don't hit each other like that in a sprint - if they do they are out of the race...
spalco said:
People don't hit each other like that in a sprint - if they do they are out of the race...
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Not like that, but physical violence happens, often with really bad consequences.
I'm not excusing Moscon at all; I called for his expulsion at the time and my opinion hasn't changed.
But if you look the level of violence and the danger of what he did outside of context, then it wasn't as bad as some other things that happen in cycling.
I would just describe what he did more as unsportsmanlike than as assault, which I don't consider trivialization.
Like, I would say it's more offensive to spit in somebody's face than to push him away, although the former isn't immediately dangerous.
It's also discouraging that he seemed to have learned nothing.
I'm not excusing Moscon at all; I called for his expulsion at the time and my opinion hasn't changed.
But if you look the level of violence and the danger of what he did outside of context, then it wasn't as bad as some other things that happen in cycling.
I would just describe what he did more as unsportsmanlike than as assault, which I don't consider trivialization.
Like, I would say it's more offensive to spit in somebody's face than to push him away, although the former isn't immediately dangerous.
It's also discouraging that he seemed to have learned nothing.
Re: Re:
I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about how he should be punished if found guilty, I'm talking about whether he should have been found guilty in the first place. In terms of punishments he has no history of violence in the peloton, the case against him was dropped.Other incidents should not be taken into account when finding a rider guilty of breaking a rule and only similar incidents should be taken into account when handing out punishments.
In this specific case I think Gianni was unfairly treated.
Nirvana said:
I think we're talking about two different things. You're talking about how he should be punished if found guilty, I'm talking about whether he should have been found guilty in the first place. In terms of punishments he has no history of violence in the peloton, the case against him was dropped.Other incidents should not be taken into account when finding a rider guilty of breaking a rule and only similar incidents should be taken into account when handing out punishments.
In this specific case I think Gianni was unfairly treated.
Re: Re:
Anyway in the case of the Tour even if didn't hit Gesbert (it's difficult to understand from the footage) the intention of hitting him was clear and was very dangerous in this exact moment, just imagine if he hit him and caused a crash in the front of the peloton launched at full speed.
I don't say that should be banned for life like the other user but a suspension was needed, Sky should have fired him and Cassani should have excluded him from WC squad. In this way, supported by both his team and national federation, it's clear that he didn't understand his mistakes.
Well the case of Reichembach was dropped only because both took at the auction witnesses that defended them so was impossible to prove what he has done without a video evidence, but even Fondriest that is one very close to Moscon, when interviewed at "Sui pedali magazine", said that even if Moscon denied was hard to believe because other riders with whom he talked told to him a different story about that incident.King Boonen said:
Anyway in the case of the Tour even if didn't hit Gesbert (it's difficult to understand from the footage) the intention of hitting him was clear and was very dangerous in this exact moment, just imagine if he hit him and caused a crash in the front of the peloton launched at full speed.
I don't say that should be banned for life like the other user but a suspension was needed, Sky should have fired him and Cassani should have excluded him from WC squad. In this way, supported by both his team and national federation, it's clear that he didn't understand his mistakes.
Re: Re:
But it was dropped and that means it can't be used as a reason to give him harsher punishments, that's just the way the system has to work.
It's your opinion that the intention was clear, and that it clearly the prevailing opinion. I don't think it was and I'm also of the opinion that it's likely that sort of thing happens many times in a single stage. I think the expulsion was harsh, but I could be brought round to thinking that it's fair, but suggestions of additional punishments are definitely harsh in my opinion. Had he caused a crash it would have been different, but in this case people are assuming they know the intention and that's not a good way to decide anything.
Nirvana said:
But it was dropped and that means it can't be used as a reason to give him harsher punishments, that's just the way the system has to work.
It's your opinion that the intention was clear, and that it clearly the prevailing opinion. I don't think it was and I'm also of the opinion that it's likely that sort of thing happens many times in a single stage. I think the expulsion was harsh, but I could be brought round to thinking that it's fair, but suggestions of additional punishments are definitely harsh in my opinion. Had he caused a crash it would have been different, but in this case people are assuming they know the intention and that's not a good way to decide anything.
Re:
A win there would be massive for Gianni and of course for the team as well.
Really hope Gianni can improve on his 3rd place at last years Il Lombardia.MatParker117 said:
A win there would be massive for Gianni and of course for the team as well.
Re:
I don't think the problems have been leg related. But a good win all the same.
MatParker117 said:
I don't think the problems have been leg related. But a good win all the same.
I think he'll have a free role in Innsbruck, considering Nibali's struggles. Perhaps the route is too hard for him, but you never know.
Re:
I think Nibali will be fine. Strict training mode in the Vuelta, he wasn't pushing too hard. Hard to tell with Porte but I expected him to try something in the final week and he didn't.
SafeBet said:
I think Nibali will be fine. Strict training mode in the Vuelta, he wasn't pushing too hard. Hard to tell with Porte but I expected him to try something in the final week and he didn't.
See him win yesterday's Coppa-Bernocchi here:
http://www.pmgsport.it/video/diretta-streaming-ciclismo-cup-2018-coppa-bernocchi/
http://www.pmgsport.it/video/diretta-streaming-ciclismo-cup-2018-coppa-bernocchi/
Re:
Well, if anybody should know the roads in Innsbruck it should be Gianni, seeing that's where he lives.SafeBet said:
He might know the roads, but it's a very demanding route. Cassani believes he has a chance. I'm a bit skeptical but Cassani knows cycling much better than me so...
Can't imagine how mad some people in the forum must be. The guy is crazy but an incredible talent.
He came 3rd in last year's Lombardia which I think suggests he is physically capable. So if he's on form he should be a chance on this Worlds course.
Re:
I don’t think that any of the many people who think he is scum are unaware that he is a hugely gifted cyclist.
franic said:
I don’t think that any of the many people who think he is scum are unaware that he is a hugely gifted cyclist.
Re:
If 'wet' means 'makes me want to sink to the bottom of the ocean' then yes.Pippo_San said:Seeing him in the rainbow jersey is slowly becoming my wet dream
Re: Re:
:lol:
Red Rick said:If 'wet' means 'makes me want to sink to the bottom of the ocean' then yes.Pippo_San said:Seeing him in the rainbow jersey is slowly becoming my wet dream
:lol:
Re: Re:
I hope he does not win. not that I don´t like him as an athlete. but twitter and the forum would become totally unbearable every time he appears. if you thought the staring at stems jokes and bad style accusation towards froome were a bit tiring, well, just hope Moscon doesnt win the Worlds.
Red Rick said:If 'wet' means 'makes me want to sink to the bottom of the ocean' then yes.Pippo_San said:Seeing him in the rainbow jersey is slowly becoming my wet dream
I hope he does not win. not that I don´t like him as an athlete. but twitter and the forum would become totally unbearable every time he appears. if you thought the staring at stems jokes and bad style accusation towards froome were a bit tiring, well, just hope Moscon doesnt win the Worlds.
Besides Moscon coming across as a despicable person, it would be a shame to see the rainbow jersey as another slave in the Sky mountain train.
Re:
Really? Why on earth would you get all fired up because he won some relatively insignificant end of season races even if you don't like the guy?franic said:
Make me laugh seeing how people keep talking of Moscon as if he was a serial killer or a war criminal.
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